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Author Topic: Another question about identification  (Read 1890 times)

Roger ONeill

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Another question about identification
« on: August 04, 2013, 03:50:48 PM »
Good morning All,

I have just joined this forum and have done a fair amount of reading but still need a bit of help if  possible. I have read all of Graham Scarth's notes on identification and have a bit of a handle onit,but still require some clarification. A friend and I are trying to restore what we were told was a 1958 Constellation. As the work progressed we started to question if indeed it was truly what we thought. When we picked up the machine it was not assembled and when we came to stalling the connecting rods that came with it we found that the rods fowled on theinside of the crank cases so we started to do a little research and have come to an impass. The numbers on the back of the cases do match (sm1726) so we have a pairedset of cases. The true engime number on the front of the cases (SM2736 HDM) indicated that the bike is a 1956 Super Meteor according tothe lis that was published in one of Accessory Marts cataloques. The numbers on the frame and the left of the crank case (7T 4852) still poses some questions. We were hoping that someone could shed some light on the actual model and year of this machine and also provide some information about the correct connecting rods to be used inthis engine.
Thanks,
Roger

ERC

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2013, 05:32:22 PM »
If it's an original 1956 the rods run directly on the crankshaft with no bearing insert. Did yours have the insert if so this may be your problem.  ERC
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barenekd

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2013, 07:27:33 PM »
It sounds like you might have rods that take the bearings and are trying to put them in the earlier model case. I think the bearing version came out in '58.
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Bullet Whisperer

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2013, 08:14:21 PM »
I don't want to muddy the waters, but last year I restored a one family owned from new 1953 Meteor 700 twin. It had a 7t followed by three digit number. Among other things, the big ends were worn and there were shell bearings in the conrods of this machine. The crank was reground and new big end shells were fitted.
After working on an early '500 Twin', I was of the understanding that the integral big end type conrods could be replaced by the separate big end shell type ones. I also remember having a hell of a struggle splitting and reassembling that 500 Twin's crankcases, due to lack of clearance for the small ends of the conrods. If I remember rightly, I put the crank into the timing side main ok, but I think I put the drive side main on the crank mainshaft, dipped the small end of the conrod under the cutaway in the drive side case and then fed the whole main bearing into the drive side case, which was pre heated for this purpose.
  I have added some pictures of the conrods from both these machines, if they might help in any way.
 B.W.

ERC

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2013, 12:04:39 AM »
Could be they have a later crankshaft. I'm pretty sure the late ones hit the cases when installed in an earlier crankcase. 1957 was the year they changed to shell bearings.   ERC
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Roger ONeill

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2013, 12:11:38 PM »
Good Morning Agaain,

Thank you for the responses. We are  little wiser as a result of your answers to our question. B.W. thanks for the hints about installing the crank in the cases, but we are getting pretty good at that. We have had the darn thing apart for what seems like a hundred times trying different rods in the cases, but all of the ones we tried had the shells and that may be the problem. The fowling occurs when the crank is being turned.
Do you feel we are correct in assuming that the engine is from a 1956 Constellation? If that is the case does anyone know where we could source a correct pair of rods that are +10. We had to have the crank turned due to it condition. We have looked at the Hitchcock site and they are temperarily out of stock of the rods for the 1956 motor. Thank you for your help inadvance.
Cheers,
Roger

ERC

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2013, 12:25:48 PM »
Hi, It sounds like what I said above you've got an early case and a later crank that won't fit the early case. Have you tried to assemble the crank into the case without the rods on it and see if it binds? ERC
« Last Edit: August 05, 2013, 12:30:59 PM by ERC »
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Roger ONeill

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2013, 12:57:30 PM »
Hi ERC,

The crank fits the cases beautifully, the problem arises when we bolt the rods to the crank.
Cheers,
Roger

Bullet Whisperer

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2013, 01:08:44 PM »
Do you have the conrod bolts with the tapered heads, as in my second picture? I remember reading these were introduced to solve clearance issues within the crankcases on certain models. Just a thought.
 B.W.

ERC

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2013, 01:50:55 PM »
If they rods spin easily when not in the case then Bullets suggestion most likely is the problem.  ERC
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Roger ONeill

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2013, 02:43:54 PM »
Hi Gents,

We have tried both types of bolts, those with a taper and those without,but Iwill have o go backand try to remember which rods we tried which bolts with.
Cheers,
Roger

High On Octane

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2013, 03:11:13 PM »
Have you tried talking to the people at Hitchcocks?  They are familiar with all the internals on all the different motors.  Perhaps they have some insight on what you might be missing?  ???

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classicrider

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2013, 12:13:38 AM »
Roger,this may help you.Look down the last page for crank info.
Colin

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2013, 12:35:25 AM »
Classic, that is a great chart, the best I've seen. Right from my old hometown.  ERC
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 12:37:33 AM by ERC »
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classicrider

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2013, 09:36:57 AM »
Glad you like what you see ERC.
Does anyone know how many crankcases RE used for the 700cc series.From my reading of this there was only 2,the original 700 Meteor was the same case as the '56-'57 SM and trailblazer,before they increased the crankcase size so they could fit the 1.8750"journal and the insert bearing conrod at the same time.But i'm not sure.
I'd be interested to know if there in fact was 3 different crankcases
Problem for Roger here is RE didn't place a part number on there cranks.Maybe if you could measure up the journals Roger we can take it from there
colin