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Author Topic: Another question about identification  (Read 1074 times)

Roger ONeill

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2013, 05:44:30 AM »
Good Morning again,

Thanks for all of the help. I received the chart from Hitchcock's and indeed it is very helpful. So it has been decided that we have a 1956 Super Meteor or Trailblazer. Now all we have to do is find a pair of the correct rods that are +10 to fit our ground crank. Any suggestions besides Hitchcock's as I do not think they have any in stock.

Cheers,
Roger

Bullet Whisperer

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2013, 07:55:13 AM »
This is a very long shot, Roger, but you could try Burton Bike Bits or a guy called Keith Benton, from Grange Over Sands [if he is still going in any way, shape or form]. I just Googled 'Keith Benton Royal Enfield' and some results and links came up. Both are in the U.K., by the way.
 B.W.

Roger ONeill

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2013, 09:53:01 AM »
Thanks B.W.,
I will check both of these out later today.
Cheers,
Roger

barenekd

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2013, 01:20:12 PM »
From what I recall, but this is going back many years, but I don't think there were rods made undesized for ground cranks. It seem that the procedure was to clean up the crank with as little metal loss as possible, then mill the mating ends of the rod slightly to take up the clearance. Kinda weird, but as I recall, that was the way it was done! WE're talking about 1 or 2 thou corrections, not 10 thou!
Bare
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ERC

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2013, 02:28:21 PM »
They did make .010 and .020 rods to fit the non shell crankshafts. They had shims on 1953 and back Chevys to correct play on the crank is what I believe your talking about.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

barenekd

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2013, 03:08:15 PM »
the old Chevies had melted babbitt poured onto the rods, then honed to size.
Could work on these, too! Not sure how it would hold up under the higher RPM, but at least they have oil pressure. The Chevies were lubricated just by splash.
Bare
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 04:33:34 PM by barenekd »
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Roger ONeill

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2013, 03:10:17 PM »
We were wondering if we picked up a set of rods that were used without the shells and had them re-sized to accept the +10 shells if that might work

Roger ONeill

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2013, 03:27:19 PM »
Hello All,
I have read through all of your responses again and we think we have a vague idea about the problem. WE tried to locate Keith Breton, but it looks like he was trying to sell his business back in 2003 and there was little else on the web about him. Burton Bike bits only lists the latest connecting rod so I have sent a note off to Hitchcock's again to see what they have to say about the lack of shell rod. We will let you know about the progress.

Cheers,
Roger

barenekd

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2013, 04:35:56 PM »
Quote
We were wondering if we picked up a set of rods that were used without the shells and had them re-sized to accept the +10 shells if that might work

I highly doubt that there would be enough meat on them to clear the bolt holes.
Bare
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ERC

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2013, 05:19:07 PM »
Will be interesting to see what Hitchcocks has to say. Have you tried to install the crank with the rods on in each crankcase half with the other side not on and seeing where it might hit?  ERC
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 05:23:55 PM by ERC »
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Arizoni

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2013, 05:47:25 PM »
IMO, that would be worth doing.
Speaking from experience, when new parts are introduced in a design to increase strength or improve reliability they often require more room.

To keep the cost impact of the new parts from requiring other new parts, the new part is often designed so there is a minimal impact on the surrounding hardware.

Often the addition of a minor machine cut is all that is needed to the surrounding existing parts to provide the needed clearance.
This may be the case here and a little work with a Dremal tool might be enough to allow the connecting rods to clear.

Even if the interference is slight it will require some serious study of the area to make sure removing material to clear the rods won't cause a thin wall but if the thickness of the material is enough then it may be worth doing.  Just remember to remove a little more than the absolute minimum.  Moving parts and thermal expansion can cause the interference to reappear when the engine is running.
Jim
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Roger ONeill

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2013, 06:40:32 PM »
Hello Again,

Bare have laid one type of rod on top of another and taken measurements and the out side and inside dimensions are the same for the rods with and without the big end shells, the only difference being the bottom end bore. We actually have one set of rods that fit ( with shells) they were so beat up that we do not want to use them but they do match the rods without the shells. ERC we have done what you suggested and the interference is when the crank is just reaching bottom on the power or intake strokes or is just beginning to rise on either the exhaust or power strokes. It appears to be the bottom outside edge of the rod's bottom cap that is causing the problem. We will persist however and solve this thing.
Cheers,
Roger 

ERC

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2013, 07:15:43 PM »
Hi Roger, I was thinking I wonder if you've got an Interceptor crank, it has a 3mm longer stroke but uses the same rods as the others. Don't have one to measure the width to see if it would fit in an early case or not. Was the motor together when you got it?  ERC 
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

classicrider

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2013, 08:56:04 PM »
Maybe you could you try the mod Eugene suggests using the 42597 rods(still available from Mr H)and grind the crank back to 1.7715".You would effectively be starting off with a new crank then.You gain the clearance because the end cap is pulled in close to 1/10".
colin
« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 10:54:58 PM by classicrider »

Roger ONeill

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Re: Another question about identification
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2013, 03:03:44 PM »
Hi All,

Thanks Colin, basically your suggestion is one we came up with and it is more or less what Hitchcock's said in their last note to me which arrived yesterday. Her is their response and they sent an attachment which is really quite helpful. I think it is something worth having on hand. I am having trouble with the attachment. This site will not let me add it to this message. I will try to reformat it and send it to you later. It is definitely helpful
Hitchcock's note:

Hi Roger,

Undersized rods are going to be a problem, you may need to look at standard rods and bore them to take shells. The attached may be of help
Regards,
Hitchcock's Motorcycles Ltd.
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