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Author Topic: Sprague Clutch woes  (Read 3745 times)

gemini641

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Sprague Clutch woes
« on: August 01, 2007, 03:30:46 PM »
Well, Guys, I really did it to my 2005 ES Bullet Deluxe. Here's an email and pictures I sent to Kevin, along with his reply:

Kevin,
I have been upgrading and tuning my 2005 Bullet Deluxe for a week now and you and the forum have helped me a lot.

Unfortunately, I think I got the ignition a little too advanced because she backfired pretty hard, started, and made this horrible grinding, clanking noise. I shut her down immediately but not before some serious damage was done. Enclosed are three pictures. The alternator is history, I guess, so I'll be ordering a new one. As you can see, the rotor is badly gouged out and the stator has pieces of gear teeth ground up against the magnets.

In the third picture, the starter motor gear, you can see several teeth broken off, which did all the damage. Fortunately, they only trashed the alternator and not the primary chain or any related gearing or the clutch mechanism.

I can replace the alternator and kick start the bike, I think, but I don't know how to access the starter motor gear. Do I have to remove the entire primary chain gearing and clutch? If so, what special tools do I need? I'm over 90 miles from a dealer and nobody around here is willing to work on a vintage-style Brit bike so I have to do the work myself, if I can. Although I love learning about my RE, this is probably a little more than I wanted to know... :o) :o)

Any input, help, advice, assistance you guys can offer will really be appreciated. I'm really sick about what I did to my bike and want it on the road again as soon as I can get it running right. I would put this on the forum but feel a little ashamed about it.

Thanks, Kevin...
Tom

Kevin's reply:

Tom,
This is great forum material even though it is tough on you. The gear you
are looking at is a component of the sprag clutch. It is the 560017 part
called the Gear, clutch driven. It is part of the sprag clutch assembly
560042/A. The gear on the actual starter motor is most likely untouched. You
will need to remove the entire inner and outer primary cover, clutch and
alternator to get at these parts. You will have to evaluate what needs
fixing when you get it opened up. There is a set of needle bearings and an
idler gear that may also be damaged. To do the job correctly you will need a
set of brass feeler gauges to make sure you have adequate spacing between
the rotor and stator of the alternator, a puller for the clutch, a clutch
brake bar, a puller for the engine sprocket and a guide for the inner
pricamry chaincase seal. You can get by without some of these tools, but
they make the job a lot easier and quicker. I would also highly suggest that
you get a parts book and repair manual. The exploded views in the parts book
are worth their weight in gold.
Kevin

Update:

Fortunately, I have  the parts manual and the service manual.

I've gotten the alternator off ( used a heavy duty oil filter wrench to hold the rotor; worked great!), the chain adjuster assembly off, and am waiting for my order with the special tools Kevin listed. Tried to use a gear puller on the engine sprocket but the claws were too short so had to order the engine sprocket puller. I'll keep the forum posted as I progress into this "hard lesson" . Moral of the story: Don't set your ignition too advanced or you'll trash your Sprague clutch when it backfires!!

Thanks go to Kevin and Tim for their continuing help.

Tom

[old attachment deleted by admin]

rpnix

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Re: Sprague Clutch woes
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2007, 06:41:46 PM »
This is why I don't go monkeying around with what's inside of bolted down cases. Stock setup is good enough for me.  :o

Seriously, though; Tough going. Sorry to see this happen to anyone.
Bob Nix -- '06 Ural Tourist, '07 Royal Enfield Electra  <-- Click on the bike to see photos!

RagMan

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Re: Sprague Clutch woes
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2007, 06:51:06 PM »
This is a really good warning, particularly to me - I tend to learn a bit, and mess a lot..  With advanced age I am starting to use the adage, 'if it ain't broke, don't touch it' - seems to work ok.
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
''99 Classic Bullet. '05 Ural Tourist sidecar rig, converted to 2wd. '05 Harley Davidson Sportster.
Jefferson County, WA

deejay

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Re: Sprague Clutch woes
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2007, 07:07:48 PM »
thats one way to make the ES into a KS only. Seriously, that stinks.

I REALLY want to figure out how to remove mine.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 07:24:53 PM by deejay »

RagMan

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Re: Sprague Clutch woes
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2007, 07:42:19 PM »
deejay, I suppose the easiest way to get the configuration you want, would be buy a used Bullet, with Kick Start only.
aka Indiana Bulleteer.
''99 Classic Bullet. '05 Ural Tourist sidecar rig, converted to 2wd. '05 Harley Davidson Sportster.
Jefferson County, WA

deejay

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Re: Sprague Clutch woes
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2007, 07:45:55 PM »
deejay, I suppose the easiest way to get the configuration you want, would be buy a used Bullet, with Kick Start only.

No way, 5-speed is more important to me! ;D

Leonard

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Re: Sprague Clutch woes
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2007, 10:37:33 PM »
That is really tough luck.  It seems like these things are just bound to break on some bikes.  My '04 with over 11k miles has never backfired and I have never had a problem with the starter (knock on wood).  I have always followed the advice in Pete's manual about using the electric starter..... get it spinning using the compression release then let it go to start.

Good Luck,
Leonard
2009 Triumph Bonneville T100
2004 Royal Enfield Sixty-5 (RIP)
2001 Kawasaki W650 (going, going...gone)
http://www.romeoriders.com

gapl53

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Re: Sprague Clutch woes
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2007, 03:38:59 AM »
Tom,
Don't listen to these guys. They just don't understand the joy you get from getting an engine to run its best. Been in the same place that you are at now. If fact so many time in my 40 plus years of tuning high performance and race engines that now I just say "OOPS, make a note not to do that again". Look at the whole incident as a learning experience. At least you will known what the inside of an Enfield engine looks like.

Oh by the way,
GOOD LUCK!

gemini641

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Re: Sprague Clutch woes
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2007, 07:25:04 PM »
Greg,

Thanks so much for the encouragement...I needed it about now!! Waiting for parts and tools from Jim at CMW right now and will start the adventure shortly.

Thanks again,
Tom

P. S. By the way, deejay, I think  that if I had kick started the bike I would now be nursing a broken leg or knee, which would have been much more painful physically and financially than replacing a $78. Sprag gear. Stick with the ES!

TT

gapl53

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Re: Sprague Clutch woes
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2007, 02:09:11 PM »
Greg,

Thanks so much for the encouragement...I needed it about now!! Waiting for parts and tools from Jim at CMW right now and will start the adventure shortly.

Thanks again,
Tom

P. S. By the way, deejay, I think  that if I had kick started the bike I would now be nursing a broken leg or knee, which would have been much more painful physically and financially than replacing a $78. Sprag gear. Stick with the ES!

TT
Anytime!
If you were close to my place, I'd come over and help.
Greg