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Author Topic: New AVL Owner—Help!  (Read 1460 times)

RP McMurphy

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Re: New AVL Owner—Help!
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2013, 01:36:47 PM »
Hey all,

Thanks for the explanations. Boggy, I put in a new plug back when I got the bike started for the first time. A few months ago, but it's only been started once since. I may give charging the battery fully a shot, but it seems like this is much more of a mechanical issue.

Based on Arizoni's advice, it sounds like the Sprag is binding up, not disintegrating (though that may also be the case I suppose). I think every now and then the sprag will lose its grip on the crankshaft, and those are the times when I've been able to kickstart. When I get the "slipping" feeling through the kicker, it's smooth, so it doesn't feel like teeth slipping or grinding off a gear. More like a smooth slip. My best guess is that the sprag is locked up so tight that the clutch plates slip before the sprag does. So there's no movement in the duplex primary chain, which explains why the tappets won't budge when I get the "slipping" feel through the kicker. Thoughts?

Thanks guys.

tooseevee

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Re: New AVL Owner—Help!
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2013, 04:25:59 PM »
Hey all,

Thanks for the explanations. Boggy, I put in a new plug back when I got the bike started for the first time. A few months ago, but it's only been started once since. I may give charging the battery fully a shot, but it seems like this is much more of a mechanical issue.

Based on Arizoni's advice, it sounds like the Sprag is binding up, not disintegrating (though that may also be the case I suppose). I think every now and then the sprag will lose its grip on the crankshaft, and those are the times when I've been able to kickstart. When I get the "slipping" feeling through the kicker, it's smooth, so it doesn't feel like teeth slipping or grinding off a gear. More like a smooth slip. My best guess is that the sprag is locked up so tight that the clutch plates slip before the sprag does. So there's no movement in the duplex primary chain, which explains why the tappets won't budge when I get the "slipping" feel through the kicker. Thoughts?

Thanks guys.

           I agree with you. That's exactly the feeling you would get when the clutch plates slip, the kicker goes down, but the engine doesn't turn over. I've never experienced it with the Enfield (yet), but I have with harleys if the friction plates are glazed or the clutch springs aren't adjusted to put sufficient pressure on the pressure plate.

        The only thing I Do Not know is the actual mechanics around the sprag clutch "locking up" the engine & making the clutch slip only because I haven't had mine apart yet. I've only seen exploded views in the manuals.
2008 RE AVL Classic
1977 Shovelhead Hardtail Bobber

Arizoni

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Re: New AVL Owner—Help!
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2013, 04:32:27 PM »
Before totally jumping the gun and blameing the sprag clutch, check the clutch adjustment.

When the lever is released there should be some free play when you start to pull it in.
If the lever isn't a little loose when youlightly touch it, it may be adjusted to the point that it's not fully releasing the clutch.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

RP McMurphy

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Re: New AVL Owner—Help!
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2013, 07:26:22 PM »
Arizoni,

The clutch was tight (corrected it so it has a few milimeters of play), but the drive shaft still feels locked up. Oh well, still good to know...

RP

Buckeroo

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Re: New AVL Owner—Help!
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2013, 09:53:04 AM »
I have read through all of this mainly because I had a run away electric start and wonder if I have damaged the sprag clutch.  This sprag clutch sounds like that mechanism one finds on top of a rope start lawnmower.  I have plans on replacing the starter solenoid, but wonder how does one check to see if the sprag has been damaged.  Also, after reading all the comments above, I have wondered if the electric motor itself was ever tested to turn over?
This bike was stored for 3.5 years.  It had fallen on its side for awhile. I claimed it about a year and a half ago. Thus the low miles and inexperienced owner.
2008 Bullet Electra Classic 500
Classic Frame and AVL motor
Electric Start
Electronic Ignition
5 speed
CV Carb

tooseevee

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Re: New AVL Owner—Help!
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2013, 11:24:30 AM »
I have read through all of this mainly because I had a run away electric start and wonder if I have damaged the sprag clutch.  This sprag clutch sounds like that mechanism one finds on top of a rope start lawnmower.  I have plans on replacing the starter solenoid, but wonder how does one check to see if the sprag has been damaged.  Also, after reading all the comments above, I have wondered if the electric motor itself was ever tested to turn over?

         I don't understand your last sentence? If the starter motor isn't turning you can't get the sprag noise. And "any" sprag noise is bad noise.

         That's why I've avoided the ES for 831 miles (I used it a few times in the winter of 2010/11 when I first got the bike running) & I always kill the engine with the decompressor, never the key. Once in a while, shutting down with the key will fire the plug coming up & it will drive the piston back down the wrong way. Horrible noise. Can't happen with the decomp.

          I could do it (rebuild the sprag), but I don't WANT to. Ever. I want the ES for things like killing it in traffic & other nightmares. Actually, I don't think the AVL was ever meant to have an electric starter.

           And low battery voltage is a starter's worst enemy.   
2008 RE AVL Classic
1977 Shovelhead Hardtail Bobber

Buckeroo

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Re: New AVL Owner—Help!
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2013, 12:41:22 PM »
The last sentence/question was pertaining to the original post.  The writer says the starter has never worked, so I was asking if he had checked to see if the starter itself rolled over.  That question was not addressed to my own problems.  Sorry for the confusion.

         I don't understand your last sentence? If the starter motor isn't turning you can't get the sprag noise. And "any" sprag noise is bad noise.

         That's why I've avoided the ES for 831 miles (I used it a few times in the winter of 2010/11 when I first got the bike running) & I always kill the engine with the decompressor, never the key. Once in a while, shutting down with the key will fire the plug coming up & it will drive the piston back down the wrong way. Horrible noise. Can't happen with the decomp.

          I could do it (rebuild the sprag), but I don't WANT to. Ever. I want the ES for things like killing it in traffic & other nightmares. Actually, I don't think the AVL was ever meant to have an electric starter.

           And low battery voltage is a starter's worst enemy.
This bike was stored for 3.5 years.  It had fallen on its side for awhile. I claimed it about a year and a half ago. Thus the low miles and inexperienced owner.
2008 Bullet Electra Classic 500
Classic Frame and AVL motor
Electric Start
Electronic Ignition
5 speed
CV Carb

RP McMurphy

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Re: New AVL Owner—Help!
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2013, 03:37:46 PM »
Update--

I pulled the electric start motor (left its housing in place to cover the hole in the primary), which instantly took away a lot of "resistance" I felt from the kicker. Still get the clutch slip feeling occasionally, but not as much now that the primary moves freely.

Still need to go in and pull the sprag and starting gears... I'll come to that later.

For now, the engine appears to have some starting issues. Since I pulled the electric starter, I've gotten it to run a handful of times, but always after a LOT of kicking. Whenever it has started, I've had to goose the throttle just to keep it running. Won't seem to idle even for a minute.

The gas in the tank was pretty old, so I used a siphon hose to suck it out and put in 2 1/2 gallons of premium (Shell, if that helps). Thought the fuel additives might help break up any old gunk in the carb.

Today I left the battery charging overnight, then drained the carb through the screw at the bottom of the float bowl. Gas came out yellow and seemed to have some particles in it. It started up after that (still with the hard starting and refused to idle). After it died out, I drained the carb again-- fuel was much clearer (almost like water), and smelled a bit better.

Guess my question at this point is, what gives? I did try replacing the spark-plug, just to see, but didn't seem to do anything special. If fresh gas is getting to the float bowl, is there any chance the carb is still my problem? I have some gumout carb and choke spray cleaner-- should I just spray some in the carb drain and see if that helps?

Oil in primary and crankcase have not been changed since I got the bike (I know I know, I have the 20W50 oil sitting on my counter, just don't have a new oil filter for the replacement). No chance that's causing this headache, is there?

Any suggestions appreciated,
RP

RP McMurphy

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Re: New AVL Owner—Help!
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2013, 03:42:39 PM »
P.S.

Electrics also seem a little haywire. I'll charge the bike up, and my Junior Battery Tender will blink green (80% charge), then go to steady green (full charge), but the running lights will only sluggishly flick on. Not getting anything out the green neutral light (found neutral just fine though). Everytime the bike starts, however, seems like the battery goes almost dead flat again. No movement out of the amp meter, no lights, no horn.

Do I just need to get a new battery (tell me there's a cheap version out there for kickstart only!), or is this more likely a fuse or alternator issue?

Thanks,
RP

Arizoni

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Re: New AVL Owner—Help!
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2013, 04:52:06 PM »
It sounds like your carburetor needs a good cleaning. 
While the additives in the new gasoline are adequate for keeping a clean fuel system clean they aren't strong enough to really remove the built up varnish and gum that often plugs up a carburetor that hasn't been used recently.

You could try removing the idle fuel mixture screw and directing the nozzle of your carb cleaner into the hole a few times.  That might open up the passages.  If you do this first  count the turns it takes to screw the screw in all the way.  You'll need to remember this when you reinstall the screw.  Then remove the screw and blast away.

Chances are, the rest of the carb's jets are also gummed up and this blasting of the idle circuit won't clean them up at all so the best approach is to remove the carb.  Then remove all of the jets and clean everything with the carb cleaner.

Your battery sounds like it's on its last gasp.
Motorcycle batteries don't have the robust features of the larger car batteries so they usually don't last as long.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

Superchuck

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Re: New AVL Owner—Help!
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2013, 09:45:01 PM »
I just bought this battery and after 200 miles it seems to be working great... it's ten bucks on amazon with another ten bucks shipping.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=YT4B-BS+AGM&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

It's a battery for a little 50cc scooter, but it seems to work just fine for kick-only motorcycles.  I got the idea from a triumph forum I came across while googling battery types.  It's super small too... about 1"x3"x4" so if you want you can get rid of the stock battery mount and use that space for storage (or just remove it altogether for a clean, naked look).

Also, as far as the carb's concerned a lot of people on here swear by 'seafoam.'  it's a miracle cure liquid fuel additive you can find at any auto parts store.  About ten bucks a bottle, and most people splash a glug or two into each tank of fuel.  From what I gather it cuts down on carbon deposits and extra gunk, etc.  Seems to work, but I haven't ever used it for a totally scummy carb.  I hear you'll want fresh gas and a larger percentage of seafoam... and burn it all through fairly quickly if you can.  Search seafoam on the forum and I'm sure you'll find a lot of 'how to' stuff on carb maintenance/protection.  May not fix your situation though... good luck!


RP McMurphy

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Re: New AVL Owner—Help!
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2013, 03:13:01 PM »
Hey all,

Giving my bike another once over, I'm beginning to realize not everything is stock. It has a cone K&N air-filter, along with what looks like a classic exhaust setup. Check out the video on the previous page if I'm wrong. Carb looks stock to my eyes-- it has a black plunger-type choke knob (two settings), and a spring loaded throttle that twists open and rests on a sprung screw. Marked "Mikuni." Could post a picture if that helps.

My question is, is there a chance the previous owner stuck all of this on without re-jetting the carb? Just opening up the leather tool-kit there were a pair of jets (I think a pilot and main jet to my amateur eyes), one of them marked "Amal." I can post a picture of these as well. Will go down and see if either of them are marked with numbers. Seems strange that there would be Amal jets to go with a Mikuni carb though.

RP McMurphy

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Re: New AVL Owner—Help!
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2013, 03:22:10 PM »
Note-- the reason I thought the carb might be poorly jetted was that the last couple of times I've gotten her started (again, hard starting), I've heard was sound like a bunch of backfiring pops. Then the engine splutters out and dies. Could that still just be from a gunked up carbie or dead battery?

Larger "Amal" jet was marked 210, the smaller no-name jet was marked 107. Huh.

DanB

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Re: New AVL Owner—Help!
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2013, 10:26:48 PM »
Sounds like a couple of things are going on. You really need to know what carb you have, clean it and tune it with the right jets. Amal and Mikuni jets are not interchangeable. Can you get us a pic? 

Check out this Mikuni manual for tuning: http://tinytim.forumcircle.com/viewtopic.php?t=1604&
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2006 AVL Electra

boggy

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Re: New AVL Owner—Help!
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2013, 10:07:31 AM »
Hey RP,
Not to add to the confusion but I have something worth checking.  My breather hose was crimped under my seat last year and it caused me a ton of headaches. I was concentrated on the carb and missed the hoses.

Make sure all the hoses coming out of the engine and into the catch can and OUT of the catch can are clear.  The single hose leaving the catch can was pinched under my seat.  The symptoms were the idle was all over the place and if I tried to give it throttle, it would cut out. If I tried to leave it running, it would eventually cut out.  I freed it from the seat and all was good.  Give it a quick look.

Boggy
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 10:11:54 AM by boggy »
2007 AVL
2006 DRZ400SM