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Author Topic: Points life -Solved!  (Read 1043 times)

edthetermite

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Points life -Solved!
« on: September 19, 2013, 08:06:01 PM »
I have going on 19000 miles on the original set of points. But I think they are worn out from what I can tell. I am having to adjust the foot plate such that the rub block is no longer in contact with the timing shaft (at lowest point on lobe) to get the points to mate properly. Of course this detracts from your high side opening clearance.
I was wondering what others have gotten out of a set of points?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 11:42:34 AM by edthetermite »
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mrunderhill1975a

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Re: Points life
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2013, 08:20:42 PM »
I usually change the points every 4000 miles or so.

ace.cafe

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Re: Points life
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2013, 08:22:00 PM »
On most British cars with Lucas points, it's recommended to change at every minor tune-up, which normally is about 6000 mile intervals.
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edthetermite

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Re: Points life
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2013, 08:45:42 PM »
Uh, jeepers, I guess mine served me well.
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GreenMachine

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Re: Points life
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2013, 09:07:55 PM »
Mine have just under 11k...It appears I have 8k to go...The rubber block is wearing a bit on mine, I "do try" to remember to grease the small felt twice a year. Not even sure if that does much in way of wear but its there.. Been washing the outside windows and finding dead stink bugs that were hiding from last year..The points will have wait.  ;D
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cyrusb

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Re: Points life
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2013, 09:41:08 PM »
There should be clearance under the rubbing block when the points are closed. If not , how would they close ? I have quite a bit like, .062 on mine. If they are still conducting I don't can points until they can't open to the gap anymore.

Chasfield

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Re: Points life
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2013, 11:06:11 AM »
New ones have a springier spring to close them so, in theory, they shut faster and give more dwell time at high revs.
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cyrusb

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Re: Points life
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2013, 12:53:48 PM »
Aside from the point maint, it pays to lube up the advance unit. I have drilled a 1/2" access hole in my plate to inspect/oil, without pulling the plate.(edit) Although I think if you have the stock plate just pulling the condenser will open up a window.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2013, 02:41:36 PM by cyrusb »

GreenMachine

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Re: Points life
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2013, 02:54:34 PM »
I've seen points without their lobe (the parts that u can dress up with a file) completely gone and still working..I have a spare set somewhere in all those nf gear boxes up top..I'll remove the cap as u suggested and squirt a bit of oil in there for the advance unit before I store it for the winter..GM
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edthetermite

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Re: Points life
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2013, 01:17:07 PM »
I could be doing something wrong as that has happened to me before in life. The points are not reliably mating (making contact) so I have had to adjust the plate by moving it to the left referencing the slot. Lock it down and it looks OK using a bulb between battery & points. But when I try to start the bike after a couple kicks I no longer get the ammeter needle deflection.
This all started after the bike lost power out on the road. I have checked everything else (compression, plug, air, fuel, etc) and the weak spark looks to be points related.



There should be clearance under the rubbing block when the points are closed. If not , how would they close ? I have quite a bit like, .062 on mine. If they are still conducting I don't can points until they can't open to the gap anymore.
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cyrusb

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Re: Points life
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2013, 01:29:43 PM »
Well, if they are closing, then your well used points are not conducting anymore. Once the silver plating is gone, that is what happens. At 19000 miles you must have some kind of world record, and a very good condenser! I,d say You got all of those points. Something else you have to keep in mind while we wear our points out to the nub, is the effect on timing. Even though you can adjust them to get the proper lift, as the rubbing block wears, this may happen at a different time, depending on the geometry.

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Re: Points life
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2013, 04:11:29 AM »
As the block wears the timing retards.  So timing must be checked and adjusted after resetting the gap.
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edthetermite

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Re: Points life
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2013, 01:49:49 PM »
Still struggling to get bike running. I have noticed that if I hot wire the battery straight to the points I get a much stronger spark w/o as much yellow coloration. I think there might be some unwanted resistance/partial ground in the wiring to the ignition switch/kill switch circuit. I need to back up and eliminate timing as a problem first. I had 110 psi on compression check. Different coil & plug has made no change; points look okay as far as surface condition and I now have them adjusted where a reliable mating is occurring (ammeter deflection w/ each kick).
 
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GreenMachine

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Re: Points life
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2013, 03:27:39 PM »
Was the bike not starting or running rough when u decided to change the points or were you figuring it was time with 19k on the set? Where the original points badly pitted (sign that the cap is bad). You could checked its operation with your meter but would need a capacitance meter to actually see its true value between .18 -.25 mfd. I'm assuming u removed your plug, had the piston at just "before TDC "to check and see that your points where just starting to open and then adjusted with a feeler gauge .015 when at the height of TDC...That should get u in the ballpark and the bike started unless their is another issue like a weak battery, defective coil, or as you suggested another wiring issue related to High Voltage generation to the plug.. I think the timing is 8mm before TDC...Hope that helps you and once u dial it in you'll be good to go for another 19k...
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Blltrdr

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Re: Points life
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2013, 03:38:01 PM »
Timing is .8 mm (1/32") BTDC
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ace.cafe

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Re: Points life
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2013, 04:18:52 PM »
Always gap the points first at .015" at the peak of the distributor cam.
Then time the bike by putting the engine at exactly .8mm(~.032") before TDC, and then rotating the points plate until the points just barely begin to crack open(and turn on a 12v test light if you are using one). Then tighten down the points plate.
If you time it first, and then adjust the points gap, the timing will change.
So, always do the gap first, then time it.
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baird4444

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Re: Points life
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2013, 11:45:31 PM »
Part of my oil change routine was to wipe a drop of oil on the cam
the points lobe runs on. I went thru 3 sets of points in 38,000 miles.
seems like each set lasted 12 to 14,000 miles. Not cause they burnt,
the rubbing lobe was worn.
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edthetermite

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Re: Points life
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2013, 12:53:08 PM »
Was the bike not starting or running rough when u decided to change the points or were you figuring it was time with 19k on the set? Where the original points badly pitted (sign that the cap is bad). You could checked its operation with your meter but would need a capacitance meter to actually see its true value between .18 -.25 mfd. I'm assuming u removed your plug, had the piston at just "before TDC "to check and see that your points where just starting to open and then adjusted with a feeler gauge .015 when at the height of TDC...That should get u in the ballpark and the bike started unless their is another issue like a weak battery, defective coil, or as you suggested another wiring issue related to High Voltage generation to the plug.. I think the timing is 8mm before TDC...Hope that helps you and once u dial it in you'll be good to go for another 19k...

Bike left me sitting on side of road and was to the point it could hardly idle. The point's pads look to be in fine shape: no pitting or uneven wear although the rub block has considerable wear. I have another set on order. The battery passed a load check. I will go through timing one step at a time to see if anything appears out of order.
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Blltrdr

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Re: Points life
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2013, 01:57:02 PM »
Are you sure it isn't a fuel problem. A cracked intake hose will make your bike run like you describe. It seems that many times it turns out that it is the opposite problem than what you are sure it is. I had a problem where my bike would just quit running but then I could restart it and it would run fine. This went on for a while as I checked everything. One day I did the unthinkable. I unscrewed the expensive Hitchcock's made in England 50's gas cap and replaced it with my cheap Emgo cap and voila, no more unexpected roadside stops.
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edthetermite

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Re: Points life -Solved!
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2013, 11:46:22 AM »
Timing was slightly off. I had run the bike extra hard for a short period and I guess the higher than normal revs managed to loosen the points cam bolt on the end of the timing shaft; this allowed the cam to shift position. Will start to locktite this puppy going forward.
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cyrusb

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Re: Points life -Solved!
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2013, 01:34:29 PM »
Timing was slightly off. I had run the bike extra hard for a short period and I guess the higher than normal revs managed to loosen the points cam bolt on the end of the timing shaft; this allowed the cam to shift position. Will start to locktite this puppy going forward.
Now that's weird, should not have made a difference. So that means the taper unseated? Normally you have to jack that taper off (no pun intended) with the internal thread to remove it.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

baird4444

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Re: Points life -Solved!
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2013, 11:52:32 PM »
as that block wears and the gap lessens, the timing will be retarding....
I used to just open the gap in small increments till it ran right. Could
usually tell when the idle settled down better at lights and it quit popping
back out the carby. in other words, I did my fine tuning of the
timing with the points, just seemed easier to me.
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GreenMachine

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Re: Points life -Solved!
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2013, 02:36:29 AM »
Whatever works. Glad to see your back on the road and satisfied with the fix...
Oh Magoo you done it again

edthetermite

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Re: Points life -Solved!
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2013, 01:31:39 PM »
Whatever works. Glad to see your back on the road and satisfied with the fix...

Put a 125 miles on her yesterday with the old points still 'ker chugging' along! But this bike is never really happy being totally free of mechanical issues. About 4 miles out the speedo needle started going from 20 to 60 and back again in about a half second. Time to replace the sending unit....it never ends....   :'(
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GreenMachine

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Re: Points life -Solved!
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2013, 01:58:12 PM »
Re. the speedometer, u  might want to remove the cable and put a few drops of oil down it overnight and reinstall the next morning to see if that improves the needle jump.
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Blltrdr

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Re: Points life -Solved!
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2013, 06:37:54 PM »
Put a 125 miles on her yesterday with the old points still 'ker chugging' along! But this bike is never really happy being totally free of mechanical issues. About 4 miles out the speedo needle started going from 20 to 60 and back again in about a half second. Time to replace the sending unit....it never ends....   :'(

If you do replace buy the metal one with grease zerk.
2003 Classic 500 5 spd
1992 Kawasaki ZG 1200 Voyager XII
1977 Yamaha XS 360-2D (Cafe Project)