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Author Topic: UCE Throttle Body, ECU and Programmer  (Read 2294 times)

High On Octane

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Re: UCE Throttle Body, ECU and Programmer
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2013, 06:17:12 PM »
Yeah I've seen that bike before.  He claims it's a 700 but it's clearly a thumper, so maybe he has a custom cylinder?  It would be nice to talk to him about his build, but I'm not sure how much help he would be for my build as he has a bolt on carburated blower.  Kind of a different ball game, apples and oranges.  Still pretty cool, definitely a 1 off build.

Scottie
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Arizoni

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Re: UCE Throttle Body, ECU and Programmer
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2013, 09:33:09 PM »
It is a single.  The owner says in his post about it,

"You are right there mate, well partially...standard bore of 500 is 84mm...this one has been bored to 87mm...to the old 535 size...it has been over stroked...stroke has been lengthened from 94 odd mm to 115 mm.

so if you apply your class X maths, it yields a cc of about 684 cc."

I checked his numbers and he is right.  It would be called a "700".
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

High On Octane

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Re: UCE Throttle Body, ECU and Programmer
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2013, 09:41:57 PM »
That's a big Thumper!  Cool!

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver
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The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

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High On Octane

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Re: UCE Throttle Body, ECU and Programmer
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2013, 01:00:35 PM »
Looks like everything is coming together as far as picking up the new bike.  Should know in a week or two when it's going to be shipped me.  Yay!

Also, I was looking into that Ecotrons EFI system a little more yesterday.  Turns out they have a Bluetooth module that you can hook up to the ECU and a Droid app that turns your smart phone into a Bluetooth data logger.  Bitchin'!

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver
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The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance Twin

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High On Octane

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Re: UCE Throttle Body, ECU and Programmer
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2013, 01:29:29 PM »
The current owner sent me some pics this morning.  Here she is!





Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver
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The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

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gashousegorilla

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Re: UCE Throttle Body, ECU and Programmer
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2013, 02:51:16 PM »
Looks like everything is coming together as far as picking up the new bike.  Should know in a week or two when it's going to be shipped me.  Yay!

Also, I was looking into that Ecotrons EFI system a little more yesterday.  Turns out they have a Bluetooth module that you can hook up to the ECU and a Droid app that turns your smart phone into a Bluetooth data logger.  Bitchin'!

Scottie


  Thats pretty wild.... I 'll tell ya, it's inevitable. We will be tuning our bike's with our smart phones in the not too distant future.   Speed calculators... GPS... HP estimators , based on user inputs and such. We'll be making fuel trims through wireless widebands and such !!  From what I hear, power commander is working on, or already has a system. But, it will kill it's at the shop Dyno tuning business.....
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

crush02342002

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Re: UCE Throttle Body, ECU and Programmer
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2013, 01:11:11 AM »
I love the idea of boost on a bike, but that bike to me says resto or ratrod....hmmm turbocharged ratrod.....think I just drooled a little on my laptop.

just a thought but AEM has a powersports piggy back that may work. its cheap and from my tuning experience aem software is fairly easy to understand and user friendly. Iv tuned quit a few 4 banger cars with the AEM fic. its a decent unit for the price however its processor is slow at times.
just throwing an idea into the pot

High On Octane

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Re: UCE Throttle Body, ECU and Programmer
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2013, 02:20:35 AM »
Cool, thanks for the info.  I'll look into that.  If I'm not mistaken I believe AEM is owned by K&N.  I remember when I worked for Advance Auto Parts every time I looked up an AEM filter or intake it was always listed with a K&N part #.  IDK  Maybe just a coincidence.

I've been talking to Alex a lot at work about this project, and as long as we get everything perfect in the bottom end (I've been researching the hell out of this  ;) ), he's confident we can acheive 100hp with this Garret turbo at around 8psi of boost.  The trick is going to be getting the camshafts timed in an advanced position but keeping the spark slightly retarded to help spool the turbo.  Man, I am living my dream right right now!  Breaking into uncharted territory and attempting what everyone has previously said is impossible!

Also considering having the frame and rear section cadmium plated.  :D  And, AND...  Look at what I found looking thru the Hitchcocks catalog today.



That fairing along with a set of clip ons and rear sets ought to give me just the right set up for what I'm after!

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance Twin

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Arizoni

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Re: UCE Throttle Body, ECU and Programmer
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2013, 04:39:33 AM »
Since turbochargers get their power from the total mass airflow of the exhaust, look for the smallest one available.

Many of the ones used on the current automobiles need the 2000+cc's of engine displacement to operate at max efficiency.  Your 700cc engine probably  won't have enough mass flow to get one up to max speed.

They would be hard to find but you might try getting the turbo off of a old Honda CX500 or CX650 Turbo.
They would be just the size you need and the information I found on the web said they would produce 19 PSI output pressure.

While your scrounging those old Honda CX turbo parts you might try to also get the fuel injection system off of the same bike.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 04:43:11 AM by Arizoni »
Jim
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1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

Ice

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Re: UCE Throttle Body, ECU and Programmer
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2013, 05:34:44 AM »
 This should spool up in a jiffy



For lighting the mix I suggest talking to Garry at IDS.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 05:39:24 AM by Ice »
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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ace.cafe

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Re: UCE Throttle Body, ECU and Programmer
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2013, 11:12:29 AM »
I'm not sure where the idea came from about advancing the cam timing, but a boosted engine typically wants exactly the opposite.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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High On Octane

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Re: UCE Throttle Body, ECU and Programmer
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2013, 01:57:24 PM »
I'm not sure where the idea came from about advancing the cam timing, but a boosted engine typically wants exactly the opposite.

Yes, when boosting a motor you want the spark a little more retarded than usual.  The idea of advancing the camshafts was more of a thought/question as to whether it would help me achieve a higher RPM redline or not.  The trick with turbos, as you probably know Ace, is to get the happy medium between a small enough volume turbine that will spool quickly, but big enough in order to produce respectable boost.  Much like your Fireballs, it's not as simple as throwing parts at a motor and saying "That will make 50hp".  There is a lot of math (volume figures) that needs to be calculated before the build ever takes place.  If it doesn't add up on paper, it will never work well in the real world.  Fortunately, Alex knows all these numbers and calculations to base mass, flow and RPMs with the cylinder displacement and head flow.

He was also telling me that higher lift cams can help, but with boost, it's more important as to how smooth the air can flow thru the heads/cambers as opposed to HOW MUCH air can travel thru.  Because when boosting a motor, you are forcing air into the engine, it is not as important to have a higher lift cam because the air is stilling being forced into the same area.  Therefor adding larger valves would essentially have the same effect on a boosted motor as having higher lift on a NA motor.  Both are flowing more air, just in slightly different ways.

Ice - What turbo charger is that?  Always curious about more options.  :)

This is directly from Garrett in regards to their turbo I'm looking at, it is the smallest turbo Garrett makes. 
Quote
The Garrett GT1241 Turbocharger is well-suited for 0.4 to 1.2 liter displacement applications including motorcycles, snowmobiles and other small frame applications. The turbocharger comes complete with internal wastegate and an actuator. The recommended horsepower for this turbocharger is 50 to 130 horsepower.

After using the formula provided by Hitchcocks, I was able to figure out that the actual engine size of a 700cc twin with a +.040 bore with the standard 90mm stroke is good for 746cc, or .746 L.  This Garret turbo is actually perfect for my engine size.  The turbo from the Ecotrons system is only rated up to 600cc and won't flow enough air to make efficient power at higher RPMs.  If I had a Bullet Thumper then the Ecotrons turbo would probably work well, but I'm looking to be breaking some speed records, and for the 1st time ever, I'm ready to throw down some serious dough to build the meanest fastest Enfield ever built.

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance Twin

Join My Facebook Group!
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ace.cafe

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Re: UCE Throttle Body, ECU and Programmer
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2013, 11:50:17 PM »
Yes, when boosting a motor you want the spark a little more retarded than usual.  The idea of advancing the camshafts was more of a thought/question as to whether it would help me achieve a higher RPM redline or not.  The trick with turbos, as you probably know Ace, is to get the happy medium between a small enough volume turbine that will spool quickly, but big enough in order to produce respectable boost.  Much like your Fireballs, it's not as simple as throwing parts at a motor and saying "That will make 50hp".  There is a lot of math (volume figures) that needs to be calculated before the build ever takes place.  If it doesn't add up on paper, it will never work well in the real world.  Fortunately, Alex knows all these numbers and calculations to base mass, flow and RPMs with the cylinder displacement and head flow.

He was also telling me that higher lift cams can help, but with boost, it's more important as to how smooth the air can flow thru the heads/cambers as opposed to HOW MUCH air can travel thru.  Because when boosting a motor, you are forcing air into the engine, it is not as important to have a higher lift cam because the air is stilling being forced into the same area.  Therefor adding larger valves would essentially have the same effect on a boosted motor as having higher lift on a NA motor.  Both are flowing more air, just in slightly different ways.

Ice - What turbo charger is that?  Always curious about more options.  :)

This is directly from Garrett in regards to their turbo I'm looking at, it is the smallest turbo Garrett makes. 
After using the formula provided by Hitchcocks, I was able to figure out that the actual engine size of a 700cc twin with a +.040 bore with the standard 90mm stroke is good for 746cc, or .746 L.  This Garret turbo is actually perfect for my engine size.  The turbo from the Ecotrons system is only rated up to 600cc and won't flow enough air to make efficient power at higher RPMs.  If I had a Bullet Thumper then the Ecotrons turbo would probably work well, but I'm looking to be breaking some speed records, and for the 1st time ever, I'm ready to throw down some serious dough to build the meanest fastest Enfield ever built.

Scottie

I am familiar with the math and the techniques.
I'm sure he knows that the intake lobe center angle for a boosted engine is almost always much wider than what is standard on the Enfield twins, and that on boosted engines the exhaust valve is almost always larger than it would be on a normally aspirated engine, along with a more advanced exhaust cam.  And that the overlap period is really needed to be very short on a boosted engine with a crossflow hemi, to reduce blowing too much out the exhaust pipe during overlap.
Wide lobe center angles are the order of the day for boosted engines.
I'm sure he'll agree.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 11:56:37 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AcePerformanceBullets/info

High On Octane

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Re: UCE Throttle Body, ECU and Programmer
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2013, 12:45:06 PM »
I am familiar with the math and the techniques.
I'm sure he knows that the intake lobe center angle for a boosted engine is almost always much wider than what is standard on the Enfield twins, and that on boosted engines the exhaust valve is almost always larger than it would be on a normally aspirated engine, along with a more advanced exhaust cam.  And that the overlap period is really needed to be very short on a boosted engine with a crossflow hemi, to reduce blowing too much out the exhaust pipe during overlap.
Wide lobe center angles are the order of the day for boosted engines.
I'm sure he'll agree.

I've heard him mention most of that stuff, I'll definitely show him your message though just to make sure.

Ace - Are you familiar with the math for gearing bikes?  Is there some kind of formula like HP/speed=gearing for this?

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance Twin

Join My Facebook Group!
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ace.cafe

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Re: UCE Throttle Body, ECU and Programmer
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2013, 01:57:51 PM »
I've heard him mention most of that stuff, I'll definitely show him your message though just to make sure.

Ace - Are you familiar with the math for gearing bikes?  Is there some kind of formula like HP/speed=gearing for this?

Scottie
Yes.
Typically you want to set your gearing so that you hit top speed in top gear a few hundred rpm past the rpm at which you reach your peak hp. Or, if you can't do that, then hit top speed at the rpm at which you hit your peak hp.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 02:00:50 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AcePerformanceBullets/info