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Author Topic: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project  (Read 1423 times)

High On Octane

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Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« on: October 12, 2013, 01:09:41 AM »
Well, it's official.  I'm going to do this damn thing!  It's going to take quite a while to complete, but it is for sure going to happen.  I now have a 1959 RE Indian Chief that is mostly complete.  I've been putting a lot of thought into this and basically have it all blueprinted in my head.  The biggest issue needing to be addressed is the bottom end.  I've decided that I'm going with the best and having Carrillo build custom rods and pistons.  They guarantee them to be balanced within +/-1 gram.  Then I'm going to have the entire rotating assembly balanced to 10K RPMs.  That should take care of any bottom end issues.  Next I'm having Colt Cams completely redesign the camshafts for higher light and longer duration.  That in conjunction with a full port/polish and valve job should get some serious air flowing in there.

For the turbo I'm going with the Garrett G1241.  It's Garrett's smallest turbo specifically designed for 400-1200cc engines.  Combine that with the Ecotron custom EFI kit and I have now have a respectable forced induction set up.   ;D  I'm thinking of going with a Boyer for the ignition system as they seem to be reliable and have some programabilitiy.  And I'm definitely going to be installing a Newby belt drive system to handle all the HP.  I'll post some pics when I get a moment.

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

D the D

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2013, 01:43:33 AM »
Far Out!
and
OMG, OMG, OMG!
 8)

'07 Iron Barrel Military (Deceased 14 September, 2013)
2014 Yamaha Bolt R Spec V-Twin
1975 XLCH

High On Octane

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2013, 02:32:05 AM »
The EFI Kit



The Turbo


A Link To CP-Carrillo About Their Custom Pistons
http://www.cp-carrillo.com/Tech/PistonTech/tabid/74/Default.aspx

A Link To CP-Carrillo About Their Custom Rods
http://www.cp-carrillo.com/Tech/RodTech/tabid/76/Default.aspx

A Link To Colt Cams For The Custom Camshaft Grinding
http://coltcams.com/

A Link To Falicon Crankshafts For The Rotating Assembly Balancing
http://www.faliconcranks.com/index.html


Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

High On Octane

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2013, 02:34:47 AM »
The Faring From Hitchcock's That Will Be Going On


The Package  :)





Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

D the D

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2013, 02:46:20 AM »
 8)  I'm drooling.
'07 Iron Barrel Military (Deceased 14 September, 2013)
2014 Yamaha Bolt R Spec V-Twin
1975 XLCH

DanKearney

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2013, 03:37:17 AM »
Wow!  Quite a load of work for you.  Looks like you'll be locked in a dark workshop for the Winter.  Can't wait to see the progress as it unfolds.


Cheers,


Dan K.
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Royal Enfield Bullet Classic, Yamaha XT225, Ural Gear Up, BMW R100R
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ERC

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2013, 12:21:52 PM »
What a project. At least you got the cases with the removable cam covers. This looks like a first for a RE build. Great winter project. I'm jealous.     ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

ace.cafe

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2013, 12:35:15 PM »
Cool beans!

I seriously hope you are going to use at least E85 or ethanol or methanol for fuel on this build.
Here are the reasons:
you need extra engine cooling,
you need fuel to help keep the mixture cool because you have no intercooler,
you need high octane for the boosted compression ratio,
you need high octane because you have no auto-retard for the ignition timing when it gets on the turbo. However, if you run a magneto with adjustable advance/retard, you could do it by hand with a handlebar mounted lever like they did in the old days.

Good luck!
.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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High On Octane

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2013, 01:45:48 PM »
Cool beans!

I seriously hope you are going to use at least E85 or ethanol or methanol for fuel on this build.
Here are the reasons:
you need extra engine cooling,
you need fuel to help keep the mixture cool because you have no intercooler,
you need high octane for the boosted compression ratio,
you need high octane because you have no auto-retard for the ignition timing when it gets on the turbo. However, if you run a magneto with adjustable advance/retard, you could do it by hand with a handlebar mounted lever like they did in the old days.

Good luck!
.

The plan is to run E85.  It's fairly readily available all over the Denver Metro, tho I may play around with methanol when it comes time to start breaking some speed records.   ;)  I can't remember if I mentioned it on here before or not (I know I haven't told my wife  ;D ) but my plans are to run this bike at the drag strip and do at least 1 season of bracket racing.  Then once I have everything dialed in and supremely tuned I'm headed off to the Bonneville Salt Flats and going to attempt the land speed record for the world's fastest Enfield.  Speaking of which, does anyone know/have the details for the RE speed records?  I know the guys running the Bullets are achieving around 120mph, but I can't find anything as far as the fastest recorded speed on a RE twin.  I did find this tho, but I'm not sure how much help it is, interesting none the less.

Quote
It seems hard to believe today, but once upon a time the fastest motorcycle was a Royal Enfield. Edward Magner was a Swedish army engineer. He took part in the Isle of Man TT in 1928. In the Junior event, in spite of a bad crash and having to stop for 27 minutes to repair his bike, he finished sixteenth. Back in Sweden in 1929 he appeared on the ice in Edsviken with his 996CC OHV JAP-engined Royal Enfield sidecar rig, tuned by Robban Lindholm. He set a new world record on the flying kilometer at 110.63 mph.  Then on Sunday March 9 1930,. he showed up on lake Storsjon with the same machine with a compressor. He had bad luck and the compressor blew during practice. Magner and Lindholm worked overnight to fix the bike (without compressor) and he set two world records, 117.48mph for the flying kilometer and 117.79 mph fror the flying mile. The record was in the Class G category (sidecar outfits up to 1000cc capacity). There is virtually no information about Magner out there in the internet, which is a bit of a shame.


Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

ROVERMAN

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2013, 02:27:21 PM »
I am not sure if this is scary or exiting Scottie! But seriously, this looks like real fun. Ace mentioned additional cooling, I would be very careful with any full fairing choices.
 As far as timing goes, I would think that waste gate tuning would be more critical there and a bit of water injection might be a consideration. Thinking out loud!
 Robert.

ace.cafe

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ROVERMAN

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2013, 02:51:42 PM »
That's cheating ACE! 8) 8) 8).

High On Octane

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2013, 03:34:00 PM »
That is one crazy monstrosity!  But yeah, I don't think that is in the same category that I'm shooting for.  LOL

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

GreenMachine

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2013, 04:08:41 PM »
wow.. I can't wait to see the finished project and track speed..
Oh Magoo you done it again

ace.cafe

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2013, 03:05:06 PM »
On one of the speed websites that I frequent, there is a guy with a 650 Triumph Bonneville who holds the ECTA flying mile speed record for normally-aspirated 650 pushrod twin class at approximately 120 mph. He has a buddy who runs a turbocharged 750 Triumph that runs about 160 mph in the one-mile event.

So, you'll want to be aiming for something faster than 160 mph.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
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GreenMachine

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2013, 03:22:55 PM »
I wonder if Scottie J has a lemon tree that he pees on everyday...  ;D
Oh Magoo you done it again

High On Octane

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2013, 05:46:24 PM »
I wonder if Scottie J has a lemon tree that he pees on everyday...  ;D

I'm not sure what that means, but it's funny.  LOL

Ace -  I was shooting for 160.  It looks like I need to shoot for 170.  :)

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance


rotorwrench

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2013, 10:33:37 PM »
The 736cc engine has a few parts available that can allow for a fair amount more horse power than the old 692cc engines. A 750 engine can be made to fit a Chief type frame too. Hitchcocks has the paired cylinder castings that would really help beef the bottom end and the 750s already had the 3/8" studs to hold the cylinders on. The 700s only have the 5/16" studs and they can't really take much more horse power than the final editions were set up for. They used to break all the time  under harsh use. Using 3/8" studs helps but the cases fret and the cylinders move around too much for really high HP output.

I'm not saying it can't be done but I am cautioning you that there is a lot that would need to be done to get it to work and work for a long time. I rode a Honda CX500 turbo way back in the day and that thing would kill you in the corners if you got on it too hard. The turbo would generally kick in at the wrong time and the shaft drive torque would break the rear tire loose at the worst possible times. That thing was scarry to me. I learned quick not to punch it in the corners.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 05:42:22 PM by rotorwrench »

High On Octane

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2013, 01:35:07 PM »
I already planned on replacing the studs with 3/8" ARP custom cylinder studs.  As far as the motors weaknesses, I've been researching this for close to a year and I've found that the number one cause for catastrophic failure is the connecting rods breaking, which will grenade any motor.  The crank and bearings itself are actually the beefiest crank setup known for vintage British twins with massive 45mm rod journals and ball bearing main bearings.  The biggest actual problem I am going to have is the head gaskets blowing out, which the ARP studs should help eliminate.  Also, I'm going to have Cometic make me some custom solid copper .063 thick head gaskets to get a better crush and help eliminate gasket blow outs.

FYI  If I could get my motor to break the tire loose in mid-turn, that'd be sick!  I'd be drifting all the turns!!!

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

D the D

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2013, 02:32:30 PM »
Scottie, are you independently wealthy or selling your kids? 
'07 Iron Barrel Military (Deceased 14 September, 2013)
2014 Yamaha Bolt R Spec V-Twin
1975 XLCH

rotorwrench

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2013, 03:10:38 PM »
When you mention the bottom end, you are getting into the other ploblem with the Enfield twins. The rocker piston oil pump puts out an adequate supply although a gear rotor type would be more efficient. The weak point is the oil feed plug. It doesn't do all that well at high rpm but can be modified to use a nylon or delron bobbin seal to replace the old rubber bobbin seal. This helps but you have to shim the thing perfectly to eliminate oil loss around the seal. Enfield Precision Engineers changed the design with the series II Interceptor but they used the same design that AMC/Norton used and they were also prone to failure but you can't take them out and check them like you can the old style oil feed plug & bobbin seal. You have to pull the whole timing cover off.  With these antiquated systems, you never really know whether your getting a good supply of oil to the bottom end or not. You just have to say a prayer and go.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2013, 03:23:07 PM by rotorwrench »

High On Octane

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2013, 01:43:20 PM »
Scottie, are you independently wealthy or selling your kids? 

None of the above.  That's why it's going to take so long to build.  If I was rich, I'd already be working on having all the machine work done and have all my custom parts already being made!   :)

When you mention the bottom end, you are getting into the other ploblem with the Enfield twins. The rocker piston oil pump puts out an adequate supply although a gear rotor type would be more efficient. The weak point is the oil feed plug. It doesn't do all that well at high rpm but can be modified to use a nylon or delron bobbin seal to replace the old rubber bobbin seal. This helps but you have to shim the thing perfectly to eliminate oil loss around the seal. Enfield Precision Engineers changed the design with the series II Interceptor but they used the same design that AMC/Norton used and they were also prone to failure but you can't take them out and check them like you can the old style oil feed plug & bobbin seal. You have to pull the whole timing cover off.  With these antiquated systems, you never really know whether your getting a good supply of oil to the bottom end or not. You just have to say a prayer and go.

Duly noted.

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

ace.cafe

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2013, 02:17:58 PM »
I think it's cool
Sometimes people just want to make something that they really want, and the time and effort and expense is worth it.

All high performance builds are fraught with peril. It's part of the nature of pushing things to their limits.
"We shall overcome!"
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

High On Octane

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2013, 02:51:50 PM »
I think it's cool
Sometimes people just want to make something that they really want, and the time and effort and expense is worth it.

All high performance builds are fraught with peril. It's part of the nature of pushing things to their limits.
"We shall overcome!"

My sentiments exactly.  It's in the nature of a true Hot Rodder.  It's about pushing envelope into a new realm.  Majority of everyone says I can't do this and I'm just going to blow the motor.  I say ANYTHING can be done when approached in a logical way, acknowledge the known faults of the motor and making them better and stronger.  I feel that by accomplishing the previously unachievable is not only a mile stone in Royal Enfield performance, but also a huge achievement in the entire motorcycle scene.

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

ERC

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2013, 09:48:56 PM »
Exactly what Ace says, nothing wrong with what your doing. Look what Aniket has done with his project. Nothing ventured nothing gained.   ERC
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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2013, 01:40:28 AM »
Two guys, Jimmy Enz, and Don Sliger ran Enfields at Bonneville in the 60's.
Jimmy died in the late 60's, and his mechanic, Don Sliger took over the effort.
Don set several records, mainly the first unfaired motorcycle to break 200 mph with a twin engined Interceptor at 205 mph.
He also set a record of 160 mph with a single engined normally aspirated Interceptor running methanol.
You've got your work cut out for you topping either of those.

This is one of Jimmy Enz's bikes taken in 1962 by a guy I know who was part of the Cooper Motors crew who provided sponsorship to Mr. Enz, and assistance to the owner of the red bike in the background, a bloke from N-Zed who was making his first trip to Bonneville.

AussieDave

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2013, 10:24:59 AM »

"None of the above.  That's why it's going to take so long to build.  If I was rich, I'd already be working on having all the machine work done and have all my custom parts already being made!   :)"

 The journey is the destination !
   Hey Scottie , this Is gonna be a fantastic build and I'm looking  forward to following all your trials and tribulations ! And what a great machine to work:)
 That injector kit looks very interesting- I guess it'd work pretty well on a bullet too- maybe add a little nitrous oxide- it's cheating I know but sure could be fun!

"Glorious,stirring sight! The poetry of motion! The real way to travel! The only way to travel! ... O bliss ! O poop poop ! Oh my! Oh my!" - Toad of Toad Hall.

High On Octane

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2013, 06:03:06 PM »
I finally watched The World's Fastest Indian last night.  What a great film!  Not only is the story fantastic but a very well put together movie with great acting.  And watching the movie has given me new found inspiration.  I know I said previously that I was aiming for a top speed of 170 mph.  My new goal is 210 mph.  Burt Munro's speed record has stood for a long time.  I think it's time someone new takes a stab at it.  I just need to gear the bike right.  I should be able to build enough boost that if I go with say a 2.12 final gear ratio I should be hopefully able to break 200 mph.

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

High On Octane

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2013, 08:17:50 PM »
I spoke with a guy at the bonneville salt flats and found out that I can't run EFI I'm the vintage class, so it looks like I'm going to go with extreme high compression pistons.  I'm thinking either 13:1 or 14:1 ratio and using Hitchcocks 1 piece alloy cylinder for the interceptor.  The additional height of the cylinder walls should allow for better valve clearance and of course better cooling.  I'll run a dual carb set up and scoop the fairing on both sides to provide a ram air system.  I'm also thinking of creating a water mister inside of the fairing to help cool the motor at WOT.

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

armando_chavez

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2013, 09:12:19 PM »
scotty j you are awesome if you do that

High On Octane

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2013, 01:48:02 PM »
Just a personal not to myself, but feel free to check it out.  Pretty cool read.  I just learned there is a HUGE difference between static compression and dynamic compression.  I mean, I always knew there was a difference, but I never realized how much timing has an effect on overall dynamic compression.  Very helpful information.

http://www.hotrod.com/pitstop/hrdp_0706_pitstop_compression/

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

ace.cafe

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2013, 02:54:55 PM »
Yes,  this is a very important matter for engine builders who are working with different cam timing.
We set the dynamic compression for all of our builds. We calculate it for each build because it is also affected by the atmospheric pressure at your elevation.

So briefly,  the later that you close the intake valve, and the higher in elevation above sea level you are, the higher the dome(static compression) you need to run to get your desired cylinder pressure amount. This is because the later the intake valve closes, there is less remaining swept distance left in the compression stroke to make compression. So, you need to squeeze it harder. Similarly, in a high altitude like Denver, the air is thinner than at sea level, so you need to squeeze that harder too.

This can become an issue because the bigger the piston dome is, the heavier the piston is,  and it can be a limiting factor in how high the engine can rev before it comes apart in a very exciting way.

I am very well-versed in calculating all this stuff. It's every day fare for me.
Let me know if you need help.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 03:03:27 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

High On Octane

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Re: Bulldog Customs Turbo Enfield Twin Project
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2013, 07:28:32 PM »
Thanks for the chat Tom!  You really filled my gaps of lack of information.  I'm ready to start taking this build to the next level.  :D  And if I ever make it out to Tennessee we'll have to get together for some beers.

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance