HPRE

Menu

Members Rides

RE WD France 2009


in
Members Rides

47 Guests, 2 Users
phoenixt, pmanaz1973
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 20, 2014, 05:20:15 AM

Login with username, password and session length

 

Author Topic: Ace assisting Bullet Whisperer racing effort  (Read 9116 times)

High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 4335
  • Karma: 0
  • Go Fast & Look Good Doing It
Re: Ace assisting Bullet Whisperer racing effort
« Reply #60 on: January 15, 2014, 12:03:27 PM »
Ace , I think you just gave away all your industrial secrets.
I can hear  compittion / opposition grinding away in there work shops now.
The Bullet Whisperer may have to consider installing an antique super charger just to stay ahead of the pack on race day.

I hope your not serious!  All Ace did was put out some figures, there isn't a freezing chance in Hell that someone could take that info posted and replicate it.  Short of actually buying one and scanning it with a 3D CAD laser scanner.

Scottie
Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in racing or performance Bullets
Re: Ace assisting Bullet Whisperer racing effort
« Reply #61 on: January 15, 2014, 02:40:24 PM »
Okay well, briefly to the point about copying.
Copying is a fact of life. Especially in racing. "Racer see, racer do".
So, it's going to happen, once the impact of this thing hits home.
Our position on this is that we developed it, we have produced the parts and done the implementations in various applications, and we can do it better for less money than if they try to re-invent it themselves. So, if they want it, they should come to us.

This engine is the combined efforts of a lot of talented people working together toward a goal. Previous barriers have been broken down, and new techniques developed, which will now and forever be known as originated by us and B.W.
We are the leaders, and all copycats will be copycats. This is what it means to lead.

Our efforts are meant to win. We are not aiming at second place. It is going to run the gauntlet of real head-to-head competition on the real race tracks, against the best that anyone else has to offer.
If anyone else can do it better, then they will win. If not, then we will win.

I can tell you this. This engine is on the ragged edge limits for every possible performance parameter, and has gone well beyond what was previously was considered possible in a Bullet. It's got the most flow, the most duration, the most valve area, the most compression, the most lift, the most rpms, that is able to be gotten out of a Bullet with the stock 90mm stroke. To get any more than this would require a supercharger.
So, I don't know exactly how much it is going to put out on the dyno, but I know that we didn't leave anything laying on the table that we could have made more power with.
IMO, the biggest challenge for this engine is going to be holding it together while it is making big power at big rpms. And Paul and the team know this is a tough task, and have taken many steps to ensure that it will hold together.

It's a new powerplant in a lot of very big ways. It will need sorting. If we find out some new things by using it, and have to make some adjustments, we can do that.
This is racing. You push the limits, gather data, and make improvements. Things sometimes break during the process.
We want to win.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 02:44:28 PM by ace.cafe »

1 Thump

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1311
  • Karma: 0
Re: Ace assisting Bullet Whisperer racing effort
« Reply #62 on: January 15, 2014, 04:34:10 PM »
Wow!

How do you gear a bike that makes more than three times the stock HP ? How about the transmission ?

ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in racing or performance Bullets
Re: Ace assisting Bullet Whisperer racing effort
« Reply #63 on: January 15, 2014, 04:48:37 PM »
Wow!

How do you gear a bike that makes more than three times the stock HP ? How about the transmission ?

The whole drive train needs to be upgraded to suit.
The gearbox is known to be able to take this much, but it might need frequent overhaul.
When increasing the loads to this kind of magnitude, everything wears out pretty quickly. It's part of the cost of racing.
The team is well aware of this. They have been racing most of their lives.

REpozer

  • Superfly and
  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 2882
  • Karma: 0
Re: Ace assisting Bullet Whisperer racing effort
« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2014, 11:59:12 PM »
I hope your not serious!  All Ace did was put out some figures, there isn't a freezing chance in Hell that someone could take that info posted and replicate it.  Short of actually buying one and scanning it with a 3D CAD laser scanner.
Scottie
A few drill bits, files,quart of Teflon , pizza oven, maybe some exhaust tape,reread  Ace's notes , and
few hours spanner time. How
 hard can it be?
;)
Okay this is really a fun call out ( and my other silly post)in recognition of Ace and team, to some incredible performance work.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 12:01:52 AM by REpozer »
2008 AVL Classic Bullet in British Racing Green
REA # 84 ( the first time)

Bullet Whisperer

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 513
  • Karma: 0
Re: Ace assisting Bullet Whisperer racing effort
« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2014, 09:56:03 AM »
Just for clarity, here is the machine we are talking about in this thread, taken a couple of years back, this picture shows our 500 at a meeting in Pembrey, South Wales, where it won 3 out of 4 races [one second place due to complacent rider looking back just before the flag!]. This machine and our 350 Clipper which also scored a win and other good placings were at the top of their game back then. But, a couple of years is a long time in racing, where development work and wear and tear rarely, if ever, stand still and although the 350 has been sorted, the 500 last ran on a race track with a rattling big end and a fair amount of other wear after recording 110.5 mph on Pendine Sands just prior to that and this all brings us to where we are now ...
 B.W.

ERC

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 1611
  • Karma: 0
Re: Ace assisting Bullet Whisperer racing effort
« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2014, 01:35:47 PM »
Nice what are you using for ignition on it?  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

Bullet Whisperer

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 513
  • Karma: 0
Re: Ace assisting Bullet Whisperer racing effort
« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2014, 01:41:11 PM »
Nice what are you using for ignition on it?  ERC
Hi ERC,
 Both our racing Enfields use a PVL / Rex Caunt Racing crankshaft mounted, self generating twin spark digital CDI ignition. These are ultra reliable and very precise in their operation.
 B.W.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 01:47:16 PM by Bullet Whisperer »

ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in racing or performance Bullets
Re: Ace assisting Bullet Whisperer racing effort
« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2014, 01:48:42 PM »
In case it needs to be pointed out to anyone, that Bullet 500 racer is using the famous Norton "Featherbed" frame. A sharp eye will notice quite a few other exotic features all over this machine.

I think it looks great too!

Bullet Whisperer

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 513
  • Karma: 0
Re: Ace assisting Bullet Whisperer racing effort
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2014, 02:00:14 PM »
That frame brings up another topic nicely, I have always aimed for a 0.66 balance factor on my cranks, for both the 350 and 500cc machines, both machines having pistons and cranks of very different weights obviously. This brings me to this, I read very recently about a Cammy Norton expert using 0.66 B.F. for rigid and plunger framed machines, but 0.85 for Featherbed framed machines. We have experienced instances of cracking on our shortened 'Manx' frame and I am considering going for 0.85 B.F. this time round, once we know the weight of the new type piston we will be using.
 Also, a lighter piston than the big, heavy thing we have used up to now would shift the B.F. in the right direction, without altering the flywheel drillings etc and we may even be able to pre determine the desired piston mass in this case in order to leave the flywheels unaltered, although they will have to be split in order to replace that worn out big end, so they could be altered then if needed.
 B.W.

72westie

  • Grease Monkey
  • ****
  • Posts: 481
  • Karma: 0
Re: Ace assisting Bullet Whisperer racing effort
« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2014, 03:04:50 PM »
That is one nice looking ignition system. I didn't realize PVL offered the crank trigger set-ups.
2001 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Race Bike:
2008 Ahrma Classic 60's #1 Plate
2009 AMA Vintage 50's #1 Plate
2010 AMA Vintage 50's #1 Plate
http://www.bgmotorcycle.com

ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in racing or performance Bullets
Re: Ace assisting Bullet Whisperer racing effort
« Reply #71 on: January 16, 2014, 03:19:42 PM »
The balance factor will relate to the frame's characteristics in resolving the vibrations in the different planes. I can't comment on the featherbed. On the standard Bullet frame, we like 63%. That's what we use on the Fireball,  and it rides as smooth as silk. You can even see clearly in the mirrors!  Of course, the Fireball isn't doing over 8000 rpm, but it's great at 6000.

ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in racing or performance Bullets
Re: Ace assisting Bullet Whisperer racing effort
« Reply #72 on: January 16, 2014, 10:10:38 PM »
I was Googling around for a while trying to find out how much power these latest high-spec racing Manx and G50 bikes have these days. Just to see how the competition stacks up, of course!

I came across this 2013 article which described a Summerfield 92 bore Manx, and a Molnar 95 bore Manx, both of which are some of the hottest big-bore short-stroke Manx racers out there on the track. The cream of the crop.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:jn2BPFsK0JMJ:www.cycletorque.com.au/new-head-new-handle/+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Anyway, the upshot is that the Molnar 95 bore Manx was stated to have 53hp at the rear wheel, and the Summerfield 92 bore Manx was stated to have 54-55 at the rear wheel.
These bikes cost $55000 plus, for buying a new one.

Walmsley Matchless G50 bikes are rumored to be in the same power range, and perhaps even have a touch more hp maybe. They cost about the same, too.

So, if we can get to that 53-55 rwhp level with the Bullet racer, we're doing pretty good to stay right with the best, and ours doesn't cost $55000. It's down to the best rider at that point folks!

If we can get more than 55rwhp, then well......!

The interesting thing is that we have the same displacement, same valve size, same cam duration, same compression, same carb size, and similar/same 8000rpm+ rev range,....just about same everything as they have.
The main difference is that after a very exhaustive search of all the available cams for these other race engines, I couldn't find a single one that had as much lift as we have in this Bullet. The highest lift for a racing Manx that I could find was .545" lift on the inlet valve, with the hottest full race cam that I could find for it. We have .609" lift in this Bullet.
So, we have about everything they have, PLUS we have higher lift valves.
It's going to be very interesting!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 10:38:43 PM by ace.cafe »

High On Octane

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 4335
  • Karma: 0
  • Go Fast & Look Good Doing It
Re: Ace assisting Bullet Whisperer racing effort
« Reply #73 on: January 16, 2014, 11:47:22 PM »
What an exciting build!  Great work Ace and BW!   :)

Scottie
Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

ace.cafe

  • Grand Gearhead
  • *****
  • Posts: 8840
  • Karma: 0
  • World leaders in racing or performance Bullets
Re: Ace assisting Bullet Whisperer racing effort
« Reply #74 on: January 17, 2014, 12:16:38 AM »
That bike is gonna look killer with an ACE sticker on it!
 8)