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Author Topic: 500 cc Harley  (Read 4049 times)

mgm

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500 cc Harley
« on: November 07, 2013, 04:08:27 PM »
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2013/11/04/harley-davidson-unveils-new-smaller-bikes-for-urban-riders/

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-mo-autos-harley-davidson-street-500-street-750-20131101,0,443022.story#axzz2jyZWLpMc

500 cc, liquid cooled, less than $7,000. Several other articles mentioned the fact the this series would be produced in India as well as the US. Looks like they want play in the US entry level market as well as take on Enfield on their home turf.

Joel-in-dallas

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2013, 05:04:50 PM »
They want the high end of the Indian market. But right now the tariffs are such that if the bike isn't fully made in India it will be very very expensive.

Right now with tariffs the Harley Davidson XL883 (883 low) costs 5.71 to 7.71 lakh (Indian currency). The Vrod costs  19.86 to 19.86 lakh.

For comparison the Royal Enfield Thunderbird 500 costs 1.25 to 1.59 lakh and the Royal Enfield Classic 500 (called the c5 in the us) costs 1.15 to 1.56 lakh. The continental will cost almost 2.00 lakh.

So if Harley Davidson can drop to a price point of 2.5 to 4.0 lakh they could be the top end of the market. The problem is that their motorcycles are at least 3 to 4 times as expensive with the tariffs. Also, their bikes are seen as too big and until the Street 500 and Street 750 that was probably true. Harley needs to move more units and needs growth outside the United States.

Also, Harley is reaching the end of its fewer but much more expensive motorcycle strategy. They need new riders and they need to increase the number of motorcycles as well. They need to move beyond middle aged men in the US.


Ducati Scotty

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2013, 05:47:42 PM »
I'm glad to see HD do something different, and take ownership of it.  Their last beginner bike was the Buell Blast.  Note that it was a Buell, not an HD.  And it served its purpose well.  If you bought one you could trade it in a year later and get credit for the full purchase price on a new Harley.  So it was their gateway drug to get people into motorcycling. 

That said, it was kind of a turd and fairly uninspiring to ride or even look at.  And it sounded like an anemic lawn mower with a cough.  So to see HD bring out a small, inexpensive bike that has both their name and their style is a breath of fresh air.

Scott

Joel-in-dallas

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2013, 05:55:38 PM »
I think Harley is going to be surprised how much it sells. Its something different. If they don't tune it down, it is quite possible that the Street 750 since its 200 pounds lighter and liquid cooled and can get higher revs could outperform the Iron 883. It looks like it would be a better bike in the curves anyway.

I think it is the most exciting motorcycle from Harley Davidson in some time. I think it might sell very well. For the crowd that says the sportster isnt a real harley, they will hate the Street 500 & 750

D the D

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2013, 08:02:31 PM »
I think Harley is going to be surprised how much it sells. Its something different. If they don't tune it down, it is quite possible that the Street 750 since its 200 pounds lighter and liquid cooled and can get higher revs could outperform the Iron 883. It looks like it would be a better bike in the curves anyway.

I think it is the most exciting motorcycle from Harley Davidson in some time. I think it might sell very well. For the crowd that says the sportster isnt a real harley, they will hate the Street 500 & 750

Nicely said!
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REpozer

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2013, 10:29:15 PM »
Pretty obvious H-D is trying to make some marketing changes.
They don't have the young generation in their pockets,. yet.
Would be nice to see something other than the cookie cutter clone, middle age , fat , bald, with a go-tee in a pirate costume riding a H-D.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2013, 10:54:42 PM »
Would be nice to see something other than the cookie cutter clone, middle age , fat , bald, with a go-tee in a pirate costume riding a H-D.

Nicely said!

tooseevee

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2013, 11:19:46 PM »
Pretty obvious H-D is trying to make some marketing changes.
They don't have the young generation in their pockets,. yet.
Would be nice to see something other than the cookie cutter clone, middle age , fat , bald, with a go-tee in a pirate costume riding a H-D.

        Hey, hey   ;D I'm not middle-aged ,, I'm a genuine dinosaur   ;)

         PS: I've watched the clowns come & go for 50 years. The real travesty is what those clowns at OCC, TLC & the Discovery Channel started back in 2008. And the newly divorced, Just For Men doused & well Viagraed, intercommed, steroed, HD Chinese-leather-clad lotharios on blindingly Chinese chromed out "factory custom" garbage barges trying to pick up 20 year olds were the funniest. And they're also why the market is flooded with very reasonable used harleys that people who might buy new ones are buying instead. Most of these instant credit card "bikers" lasted about two years. Many of them killed themselves their first season & some on their first ride.

     I hope h-d's new small bike experiment is successful. Their past attempts haven't been. And it's what bankrupted Indian. They tried to compete in the small bike market for too long & it wasn't what Americans wanted. 
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2013, 11:28:22 PM »
I hear you on what America wants.  What about Europe?  Would a smaller HD work there?  Or do Europeans who want HDs want them big?

Scott

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2013, 12:12:01 AM »
From what I have read about them, HD recognizes India is a HUGE motorcycle market and they do not have anything that fits that region. This is their first run at getting a slice.

Also, at this point it is not clear, at least to me if they will be bringing them to the states anytime soon. I do have to say, a water cooled 500 or 750 twin sounds like lots of fun.

I rod a V Rod once, which of course is a totally different animal, but when I got back on my some what souped up twin cam Roadking, welll....it felt a bit anemic....
I've gone back to my roots. British 1 lunger, stump puller.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2013, 12:17:55 AM »
Interesting.  Maybe it's just for India then and they'll never release it in the US.  Certainly makes sense to try to get a slice of the pie in India, and if they don't release it in the US then they're not diluting their brand here in any way.

Scott

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2013, 01:01:17 AM »
Harley is already assembling knock down kits of the 883 in India in a couple of different styles.
It's popular with the people who can afford it.

For most, it's priced way out of any reasonable budget for most of them and even those who can afford them are griping about the cost of accessories.
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Craig McClure

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2013, 02:43:27 AM »
I'll be curious to hear about performance. Ducati 750 twins are very zippy. If Harley comes close it may be interesting. I did notice it was fairly HEAVY. Real original Triumph 750's were under 400lb. I think the baby Harleys need taller skinny wheels & more rearward pegs, & flatter bars. Might be cheaper to just buy something else, perhaps some older technology....like to see Enfield re-engineer & offer A VINCENT BLACK SHADOW facsimile . That'd show em!
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2013, 07:29:46 PM »
They're being assembled in India and brought to the US.  The US HD website is touting them right now, but they won't be available until 2014.  This is going to pose a challenge to both RE and Triumph, because the 500cc engine only costs 6800 (just about where a C5 military rests) and it is well under anything Triumph offers.  That being said, the Honda 500 is cheaper still and I wouldn't compare either of the aforementioned brands to one of those little plastic toys.  I looked at the pictures and I hope they're successful, but if they aren't built in America, I can't see myself riding one.  If it comes from India the only two letters I need to know are RE!
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2013, 07:42:51 PM »
I see these as very different styles of bikes.  The HD is an HD and looks like one.  That doesn't put it in the same niche as RE, Triumph, or the new Honda 500s.  I think most buyers would see them as more different than similar.  It could muscle in on the smaller cruisers out there, like the V-Star 650 or other 800cc cruisers.

Scott

barenekd

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2013, 11:50:13 PM »
Quote
   I hope h-d's new small bike experiment is successful. Their past attempts haven't been. And it's what bankrupted Indian.

It wasn't the small size that bankrupted Indian. It was that the small bikes were rather a POS. Indian was dead with or without them anyway. The biggest killer of Indian was that the Police Departments switched to Hardley.
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tooseevee

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2013, 11:54:51 PM »
I hear you on what America wants.  What about Europe?  Would a smaller HD work there?  Or do Europeans who want HDs want them big?
Scott

       Scotty,

       Maybe I wasn't clear enough when I said "''it wasn't what America wanted".

       I was referring to Indian's small bikes in the '50s. Indian tried to compete with the small foreign bikes for too long when it wasn't what America wanted in a road bike, a bobber, a chopper. It bankrupted Indian & they were gone. That's how the market works. It's too bad because with Indian as competition harley would have been a better motorcycle; both would have become better.

       Harley learned early enough that it couldn't save itself with small bikes but still had a hell of a time not going out of business for a lot of different reasons. The money problems & R&D problems & quality problems all came to a head finally & h-d almost went under. Without the influx of money from AMF they would have shut down & we would have NO American motorcycle now.   

       I think there are a lot of Indian guys just dieing to have a harley, but the average Indian will never be able to afford one. The little harleys will be an elitist bike the same as the big harleys that are there are now.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2013, 11:59:13 PM »
Ah, sorry, I thought you meant today.  And if you did, you'd still be right ;)  America wants big bikes. 

Yes, in India even the small HD would be a status symbol.  And probably far better suited to riders there.

Scott

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2013, 12:17:30 AM »
The 'Street' pair of HDs will be manufactured in Kansas for the US market.
  The average age of Harleys customers is 50 years old. They need to get a younger customer base. That is the primary market for these two bikes.
 Notice the massive radiator. Since Streets will also be sold in India and parts of Asia heat is an issue. Summers in parts of India easily hit 120 degrees. A successful bike for India has to deal with the heat. Cool running is not a bad idea anywhere.

Joel-in-dallas

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2013, 08:39:55 AM »
This is all about Harley Needing to attract new riders.
I think the Street 500 & 750 will bring in new people to Harley Davidson.

Demographics alone is forcing Harley Davidson's hand. The article below is a great read.
http://investorplace.com/2013/11/harley-davidson_demographics-downfall-baby-boomers/#.Un3x1pFd1kF

I think the incredible response of the Project Rushmore motorcycles reduced any last hesitation Harley Davidson had to having the Street 500 & 750 in the United States. Also if you are a motorcycle manufacturer you *must* be in India. Its just too big a market to skip all together. The tariffs make building the motorcycle in India a requirement.

I did read on more than one source that Harley is planning on only selling the Street 750 and not the Street 500 in India. Royal Enfield leads the Indian market in 500 cc motorcycles.

I have nothing bad to say about Harley Davidson. They are bringing in new riders in the U.S. Their dealership network has lots of MSF classes and works hard planning lots of events to introduce new riders to motorcycling. Their "Jump Start" is really a fun thing for new riders. Their boot camp and women only boot camps are really smart.

Harley Davidson will survive the Baby Boomers aging out of motorcycle riding. But it will be a very difficult transition that they are ready for.

I have to say the more I read about Royal Enfield and their adaptations in the last 20 years the more impressed I am. The UCE engine and the Thunderbird were crucial. The Thunderbird was the motorcycle for the kids and grandkids of Bullet Riders. But they can get a Thunderbird, get the familiar thump but have a blacked out Royal Enfield that retains much of the bullet but is still different enough to be desirable.

Now with the Continental GT they have another motorcycle to grow the market.


GreenMachine

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2013, 03:50:49 PM »
Joel -  Per verbatim : Most are over 50. Nearly all of them are older than 45.

This isn't a coincidence. Harley-Davidson is a brand whose sales depend disproportionately — almost exclusively, in fact — on middle-aged Caucasian males. Riders younger than 40 generally lack the time, interest or the bankroll to buy a Harley. But by the time they get into their 60s or older, the noise and joint pain have whittled at riding's allure. You still might ride in your 60s, but you're doing it less frequently and you probably aren't buying a new bike.

Alot of us are in the demographic...Haaaaaa , the joint pain sucks and some of you guys ride and take the associated suffering because of the joy that it brings you. Harley's needs to keep on top of this game..A 500cc model bike is considered large in India....Enfield is considered one of their cottage Industries and now part of their  heritage. I could see it trump Harley which is why I'm not surprised if only the 750 is sold locally..Although I would expect the 500cc model to out-sell the 750 cc in India, we see strange decision making all the time like why a bike/car is sold in Europe and not here...Summer of 2014 should expose the truth....GM
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Roeland

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2013, 12:47:18 PM »
I heard bad vibes from the SA Harley community - they do not like the idea of a water cooled engine. The bikes are expensive - and yes the crowd is usually older than 45 but I don't think that is the mayor issue over here. My dream bike was an Harley in the late seventies and early eighties. At that time Harley was a legend in terms of the outsider culture. Nowadays, it is regarded as a bike for old people or accountants who cruise at no higher speed than 80 km per hour. The outsider culture got lost and the younger generation want something more individual not associated with the older generation - that's probably why superbikes do so well. I still would love to have a Harley but every time I mentioned I get criticised to either be an account or having a mid life crisis. Than again a Triumph got it's own stigma's - what shall I get as an second bike - one to work on while ride the other one?

ByTheLake

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2013, 02:44:21 PM »
There's no doubt that Harley Davidson needed to find a way to attract younger riders with more affordable machines.  These models were completely predictable - smaller V-twin cruisers.  It's all that Harley's customers will let it build.

As I look for a smaller urban bike to buy in early 2014, these Harleys won't be on the shipping list.  First, the all-black color and trim doesn't appeal to me.  The styling of these bikes will blend into the crowd and not stand-out one bit.  I've never owned a Harley, but enough of my friends have to convince me that I don't want to deal with Harley's dealerships.

I love vintage styling and simple engine architectures, so I'm still planning on buying that Royal Enfield C5 Chrome in March.

Alan LaRue

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2013, 03:17:18 PM »
I wish they would have built the new bikes as standards rather than cruisers. The original Sportster looked a lot like a Bonneville with a V-twin. How are they going to attract younger riders with another cruiser with a 25" seat height? But what do I know?

I'm too old to ride a bike that low. If my knees are above my hips, I start to hurt pretty fast. I'm only 5'9", but Harley's are too low for me. Maybe it wouldn't bother a younger person, but it's still hard for me to believe that their intended market for these new bikes will want to ride with their butt practically dragging the ground and their knees pointed at the sky.
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GreenMachine

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2013, 03:42:51 PM »
I only rode a Harley once a dyna and it was just for a mile or two...I don't remember if my knees were higher than my ass or not (5'11'') ...My Yamaha 1100 seating is pretty vanilla with just a big soft seat for my fat ass and my legs are slightly elevated on floorboards ( Sometimes I think of changing up from the California Bars) ...The older I get, I prefer a lighter bike for the ease of handling, which is one reason I like my Enfield so much...Harley Dealership - Not sure what that means outside the confines of having to deal with any of them..Do they presents their own special attachment? GM
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Craig McClure

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2013, 05:34:57 PM »
" what shall I get as an second bike - one to work on while ride the other one?"
NOW there is a loaded question. What do you dream of owning? Motorcycle preference is an individual thing, kind of surprised you'd ask.
If I was not income challenged, a bunch of exotic machines come to mind, Financial freedom sure could be fun.
  As a thrifty person, I have never hesitated to seek out useful old technology, so some older motorcycle options come to mind. the good news is that there are some excellent bikes languishing in garages of individuals who simply got bored with them or just don't ride much. This is how I got my G5 deluxe.
  I am always interested in learning of old BMW AIRHEADS, MOTO GUZZI's, DUCATI's standing idle. I even like URALS.  Some years ago I was GIVEN a BSA A65 LIGHTNING because it no longer ran, & the owner needed the space.
   BMW is a very practical way to go, they are excellent machines, & most airheads are still running. They can be set up to Tour, Cruise, or Race. Enclosing pix of 2 that I built.
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Gypsyjon

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2013, 06:41:33 PM »
I rode Harleys for 30 some years. I found them to be reliable and comfotable to ride. I once put over 900 miles on my Road King in one day and was none the worse for it. They are big old heavy cumbersome beasts though.

I love my RE, light nimble and loads of fun. Furthest I have gone in a day is a tad over 350 miles down to north Florda. Lots of fun, but I was glad to get off.

Totally different bikes, both have their good points and some not so good. It is loads of fun to go out and give my RE a kick or two then hear that single thump!
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barenekd

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2013, 08:14:12 PM »
Quote
You still might ride in your 60s, but you're doing it less frequently and you probably aren't buying a new bike.

I guess I could refute that comment. I've bought three new bikes after 60, 2 in the last 2 years. None of then have been Hardleys, or even big bikes. And surprising, to me, all were air cooled. A water-cooled engine is an inherently better setup. The engines generally live longer because they are in a far more stable environment. However, the plumbing makes them a PITA to work on! Of course I guess it doesn't quite match the 7 or 8 that I bought between 50 and 60! The big difference in the numbers are the numbers flowing into the checkbook. I just don't have the excess money I had in those days! But I do know a lot of guys over 60 who still spend copious amounts on bikes. However, obviously the numbers are down from younger people, as the whole population of blue haired riders is declining compared to the younger ones. We can't last forever, but we try! Obviously the market isn't aiming at us! But they do still have some nice stuff out there for us. And the older crowd is certainly more likely to buy Enfields. They are the ones who understand where the bikes are coming from! As with me, I bought one because they are the type bike I was raised on. A different brand or two, but the similarities and feelings are there! It's old home week without having to remember what the good old days were really like. I sold the last Matchless in the '90s because I was tired of being reminded of what they were like! It's why I never acquired an iron barrel!
Bare
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Hondohm

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2013, 04:43:37 PM »
I wish they would have built the new bikes as standards rather than cruisers. The original Sportster looked a lot like a Bonneville with a V-twin. How are they going to attract younger riders with another cruiser with a 25" seat height? But what do I know?
I think this new Harley straddles the line between cruiser and standard.  To me it looks more of a standard than their 883 Superlow or Iron. 

Water cooling makes sense, even for a dinosaur like me who used to say that air cooling was God's rule for motorcycles.   :o 

I do think it puts more pressure on RE to up their QC game.
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barenekd

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2013, 07:05:53 PM »
You guys have to understand  that you can get a lot more power out of a water cooled engine because if a more stable environment allows for tighter clearances, and more compression in the engine. How many aircooled liter bike engines are out there that produced nearly 200 horsepower? They are all water cooled. The air cooled engines are lucky to break 100 HP.
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Hondohm

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2013, 07:32:44 PM »
You guys have to understand  that you can get a lot more power out of a water cooled engine because if a more stable environment allows for tighter clearances, and more compression in the engine. How many aircooled liter bike engines are out there that produced nearly 200 horsepower? They are all water cooled. The air cooled engines are lucky to break 100 HP.
Bare
+1

My water-cooled CBR250R makes around peak 24HP, more than my C5 had.  Doesn't hurt that it's redline is a ridiculous 10.5k rpm's (I seldom go higher than 7).  Torque is more on the RE, of course, but in normal riding I don't notice much difference.

The new Harleys have the Revolution X motor, son of the VRod motor, and it is a very strong, well-built motor.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2013, 12:43:11 AM »
I can't seem to find pictures of each model.  Do the 500 and 750 look the same, just a different engine displacement?  And are the engines similar like the 883 and 1200?  Just swap pistons and cylinders basically?

Scott

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2013, 01:37:51 AM »
I can't seem to find pictures of each model.  Do the 500 and 750 look the same, just a different engine displacement?  And are the engines similar like the 883 and 1200?  Just swap pistons and cylinders basically?

Scott

As far as I can tell, the 750 has a glossy tank while the 500 has a matt black tank.  Also, the 750 engine has highlighted edges, white in color.  There are probably other differences.  I haven't checked the HD website, but they probably have better pix.
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Joel-in-dallas

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2013, 02:03:54 AM »
check out street.h-d.com for details about the new 500 and 750. They are basically the same motorcycles with a different bore in the engine. In fact their stated weight is the same for both. Horsepower specs have not been announced.

I think they will fill a need. Also, the dealers in the United States have been clamoring for something to replace the Buell Blast for their Riders Edge class. Its the Harley Branded version of the Motorcycle Safety Foundation Beginner Riders course.

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2013, 03:39:52 AM »
I can't seem to find pictures of each model.  Do the 500 and 750 look the same, just a different engine displacement?  And are the engines similar like the 883 and 1200?  Just swap pistons and cylinders basically?

Scott

Here's a link to Cycle World's picture gallery and the article it comes from.  I believe the 500 is in front and the 750 is the white one in back:
http://www.cycleworld.com/olgallery/107332/107354/17
http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/11/04/2014-harley-davidson-street-500-and-street-750-revealed-at-eicma-2013/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=2014-harley-davidson-street-500-and-street-750-revealed-at-eicma-2013
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2013, 03:44:29 AM »
Awwwww.  It's so cute with it's itsy bitsy little V-twin.   ;D   Too bad it just looks like another regular ol' Harley.

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2013, 03:49:07 AM »
Awwwww.  It's so cute with it's itsy bitsy little V-twin.   ;D   Too bad it just looks like another regular ol' Harley.

Scottie

Hey!  It looks like my Yamaha Bolt with a different back seat and a kicked out fork!  :o
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2013, 04:52:42 AM »
  I think we are seeing the end of the 55 + odd years of the Sportster.... At least for the 883.  At about a 100 pounds lighter, the 750 makes about the same hp at around 7500 rpms, and the torque numbers are around the same at 44 ft lbs. The bike should get along pretty well.....  54 bhp, should be around the mid forties at the wheel, without mods.   I think it would make an 883 feel almost truck like.....
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2013, 01:50:07 PM »
IDK, I guess maybe I'd have to actually ride 1 instead of forming a biased opinion based on my previous experiences with H-D.  The '74 Sportster I rode just wasn't comfortable at all, and the '05 Road King was so damn heavy I almost threw my back out trying to back it out of the parking stall.  And then it rattled my bones so bad I only rode for about 3 miles before I said "Fuck this shit" and turned around and took it back to the owner saying "no thank you".  There was a couple others as well but they're all the same.  I was born and raised an hour away from the H-D factory always thinking "I'm going to own 3 Harleys when I grow up."  And then I rode a couple and I've just never been a fan since.  It doesn't help that most times when I wave to a H-D rider while I'm riding that they are too cool to acknowledge me because I'm not on a Hog.  I realize not everyone with a Harley acts this way, but I have have NEVER been waved at or back by someone wearing "colors".  I guess I'm just not cool enough.  Nah, it's clear I'm just too cool for them.   ;)

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2013, 02:21:52 PM »
Scottie,
I hear ya, and I have had two HDs.  One an overweight pig, one an overweight Sportster which felt light compared to an Electra Glide.  I didn't know better.  And yes, those in colors only talk to their own.  That's a bit different than the poseurs in their pirate costumes.  I've actually seen grown men wearing Sons of Anarchy on their backs ha ha ha!  There are cool HD riders though.  The guys who don't need Viagra or Cialis and a costume to, well, you know.  ;)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 03:18:37 PM by D the D »
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2013, 03:04:08 PM »
A Harley rider once gave me 20% of a wave back.

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2013, 03:24:29 PM »
Yup,  there are a whole lot of other bikes out there in the world.

It's just another clone of a Japanese cruiser clone with a H-D badge slapped on it.
Big deal.
The vestigial remains of a horrid 45 year old counter-culture "styling experiment" by mechanically-ignorant wrench-benders, gone awry.
When can we mercifully bury the bad memory of this chopper nightmare that manufacturers continue to foist upon us?
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2013, 04:11:48 PM »
Photo 21 on the Cycle World site shows a hipster riding the thing.
http://www.cycleworld.com/olgallery/107332/107341/21
That may be wishful thinking. The way that fork is raked, I think this really is a way to sell the typical Harley mystique (or whatever it is) to India. Certain things about it, the size, the price, etc., have to be more appropriate for the Indian market to be able to sell them in significant numbers, but they want it to look like a typical (or stereotypical) Harley.

I think the hipsters would prefer something that looks more like the Model K. (And so would I!)
http://www.classic-car-history.com/harley-davidson-k-model-history.htm
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2013, 04:24:02 PM »
Having owned a couple of bobbed Pan Heads back in the day, I would compare them to Malingering, Oily, Pet Locomotives. Fun when behaving but not very reliable.
  I have come to the opinion that today, Harleys are more about THEATER than transportation.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2013, 06:22:38 PM »
You all are missing the point.  You can now look just as cool parked in front of Starbucks for LESS MONEY!  And though the bike is cheaper the mass manufactured accessories to make it yours are the same price and cost just as much to install so the dealer still makes money.  Win-win.

Seriously though, I'd love to see HD do something really different.  It seems their marketing has been too successful.  They aimed to sell the old school, heavy, loud, rumbly bikes to baby boomers and they did.  They sold the dream.  Of course, now if you try to change the dream you can't.  They don't make standard bikes, they don't make sports bikes, they make raked out cruisers with air cooled engine and any deviation from that spoils the dream.  The V-Rod is just a small step away from that and the purists hate it.  Water cooled?  Hate it. 

To be fair though, it seems these smaller bikes are aimed at selling the dream in other countries.  And over there they may be more willing to accept something that doesn't exactly match the classic blueprint.

Scott
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 07:17:44 PM by Ducati Scotty »

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2013, 06:58:11 PM »
...and the weight will still break your back.  ;D

By the way, no problem here to get waves from HD folks. On the other hand, GS riders are too dignified to notice us, mere commoners.  :)
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2013, 08:52:39 PM »
Anyone know the sale units of HD in their home market?
I think I read somewhere that RE sells 100,000 units in their home market.
It would be interesting to see if RE outsells HD in respective home market sales.

HD makes more money of branded merchandise than they do off sales of motorcycles. I wonder if they are going to hit the Indian market up with their branded stuff to turn the riders into pirates?
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #47 on: November 13, 2013, 12:42:49 AM »
I see another frickin' bandana I'm gonna kill something!  :o
Rather than have a homeless person for the holidays, I decided to stick with ham.

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #48 on: November 13, 2013, 12:45:21 AM »
I see another frickin' bandana I'm gonna kill something!  :o
THINK I SAW ONE WRAPPED AROUND A HALF HELMET TODAY.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2013, 12:49:56 AM »
I wrote on another forum about this the other day.
I think H-D is trying to capture the clone market that the Japanese have owned for a few decades, by making a clone of their own, and putting their H-D name on it.
It makes sense. The clone market is pretty big, and H-D could make some money off of it. The Japanese have been cashing in pretty big off of clones for many years.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2013, 05:14:50 AM »
Given that a lot of the 'stereotypical' HD riders consider the Sportster a 'girls' bike, I'm not sure that a smaller model will be accepted by the brotherhood. People who buy HD's do so for the image, and they may sneer at these entry level bikes.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #51 on: November 13, 2013, 12:35:24 PM »
Given that a lot of the 'stereotypical' HD riders consider the Sportster a 'girls' bike, I'm not sure that a smaller model will be accepted by the brotherhood. People who buy HD's do so for the image, and they may sneer at these entry level bikes.

That's the point I was trying to get across earlier.

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #52 on: November 13, 2013, 01:08:37 PM »
I agree with ACE, it's the clone market they are after. The Yamaha Bolt seems to be a direct competitor and HD may well do OK with it.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #53 on: November 13, 2013, 01:30:26 PM »
Given that a lot of the 'stereotypical' HD riders consider the Sportster a 'girls' bike, I'm not sure that a smaller model will be accepted by the brotherhood. People who buy HD's do so for the image, and they may sneer at these entry level bikes.
Who's kidding who? To a greater or lesser degree, we're all in it for the image.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #54 on: November 13, 2013, 02:05:59 PM »
Who's kidding who? To a greater or lesser degree, we're all in it for the image.

I ride 2 wheels because I like the freedom and wind blowing my face at 80mph.   ;D  Screw an image.

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #55 on: November 13, 2013, 03:22:57 PM »
Anyone know the sale units of HD in their home market?
I think I read somewhere that RE sells 100,000 units in their home market.
It would be interesting to see if RE outsells HD in respective home market sales.


From the ride apart review, "Currently Harley dominates the U.S. market, making around 185,000 of the 452,000 motorcycles that were sold in the U.S. in 2012."

And if you look at the numbers coming out of India it looks like RE should be able to be getting close to that number with the new plant.  Granted, that is only the production number not home market sales but I think the vast majority of bikes produced in India stay in India.....

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #56 on: November 13, 2013, 04:28:27 PM »
I'm surprised to see that Harley makes up such a huge chunk of the market, but that's sales, not necessarily bikes that I'll actually see on the road ;)

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #57 on: November 13, 2013, 06:48:40 PM »
I'm surprised to see that Harley makes up such a huge chunk of the market, but that's sales, not necessarily bikes that I'll actually see on the road ;)
If you remove the dirt bikes from the totals, the percentage of HD's sales is even higher. 
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #58 on: November 13, 2013, 07:53:52 PM »
If anyone benefits from this, it'll be Indian Motorcycles.  They get to sit back, risk-free, and see how a smaller displacement American bike sells.  They haven't got the same "smaller bike = girl's bike" stigma.  And they have yet to release a new Scout in the market.  Harley's practically doing free demographic testing for them.
There's something that doesn't make sense... let's go and poke it with a stick.

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #59 on: November 13, 2013, 09:20:55 PM »
Quote
I'm surprised to see that Harley makes up such a huge chunk of the market, but that's sales, not necessarily bikes that I'll actually see on the road ;)

I don't think a lot of Hardley buyers actually ride the things. Certainly not very much. It's just a status symbol to some.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #60 on: November 13, 2013, 09:52:17 PM »
past history says small hds dont fare to well...people as a whole want big hds as it should be...they have their niche in the market so let other makes have theirs...whizzers,arimaches,veerods,have all been dissapointments for hd...stay and improve the big twin...i have a 1980 superglide and it and my c5 military are so different that i can go on whatever trip i want to be on at that time...ps i also have 3 honda dirt bikes...all above serve a purpose and i respect that...just my personal opinion...
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #61 on: November 13, 2013, 09:53:57 PM »
It has always seemed bizarre to put an engine with automotive displacement on 2 wheels, although I did appreciate & lust after the MUNCH MAMMOUTH motorcycle. The best use I've seen a Harley engine put to is the NEW MORGAN 3 WHEELER Sports car. Look them up, you won't believe the Video road tests. Needless to say, Enfield riders will appreciate them.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #62 on: November 13, 2013, 09:59:51 PM »
yes craig the morgan with a harley was cool...of course the whole concept of a morgan was so brit it was indeed worth looking at and admiring...
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #63 on: November 13, 2013, 10:11:15 PM »
I don't think a lot of Hardley buyers actually ride the things. Certainly not very much. It's just a status symbol to some.
Bare

Absolutely!  But the same can be said for most motos.  Not necessarily the status, but purchased mid-life with good intent, then it just sits in the garage.

I'm excited to see the new Indians.  I think of them as HDs for people who don't want an HD.  While they have much the same heritage and history, they don't have the loyal fan base that will revolt against any design or style change that involves something newer than 1940.  I hope they peel off a little from the usual pirate crown.  I also loved their TV add that showed a guy lovingly cleaning and polishing his HD just to throw a for sale sign on it.

Scott

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #64 on: November 13, 2013, 11:09:20 PM »
I remain very skeptical of the new Indians. I was not at all impressed with that companies CAN AM trike, having overtaken & passed several on my 1994 650cc URAL Combo. There are no New Indians to really examine here, but the pictures show a machine very heavily into early 50's DECORATIVE styling. I see no need in the world to resurrect TAILFINS, or to sell yet another rock crushing motorcycle I'd be afraid to meet coming my way downhill on a twisty mountain road.
  Why oh Why doesn't some one resurrect a worthwhile retro VINCENT?
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2013, 11:59:46 PM »
I remain very skeptical of the new Indians. I was not at all impressed with that companies CAN AM trike, having overtaken & passed several on my 1994 650cc URAL Combo. There are no New Indians to really examine here, but the pictures show a machine very heavily into early 50's DECORATIVE styling. I see no need in the world to resurrect TAILFINS, or to sell yet another rock crushing motorcycle I'd be afraid to meet coming my way downhill on a twisty mountain road.
  Why oh Why doesn't some one resurrect a worthwhile retro VINCENT?

Retro Vincent?

How about a Bullet with slightly modded frame that fits this 1000cc V-Twin engine that has the same bore/stroke as a Vincent Black Shadow, and if it is fitted with a pair of Ace Fireball kits will produce the same power as the legendary Vincent Black Lightning that Rollie Free rode at Bonneville? Would that be okay?
It's on the way, and we also now have GP heads with high ports and roller rockers that may push this over the 100hp mark.
Stay tuned. It's taking Aniket a while to get these engine cases done.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 12:05:14 AM by ace.cafe »
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #66 on: November 14, 2013, 12:12:23 AM »
YES, YES, PLEASE! WILL IT HANDLE ALSO? TALL SKINNY WHEELS?  If only I weren't on a fixed income.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #67 on: November 14, 2013, 12:14:00 AM »
I remain very skeptical of the new Indians. I was not at all impressed with that companies CAN AM trike, having overtaken & passed several on my 1994 650cc URAL Combo.
CanAm Spyders are made by Bombardier, not Polaris.  Polaris builds Victory in addition to Indian.

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #68 on: November 14, 2013, 12:18:00 AM »
I STAND CORRECTED.  I still think VICTORIES AND INDIANS are 2 wheel TRUCKS.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #69 on: November 14, 2013, 12:24:14 AM »
YES, YES, PLEASE! WILL IT HANDLE ALSO? TALL SKINNY WHEELS?  If only I weren't on a fixed income.

Yes, it handles nicely. It's on a Bullet frame with about a three inch stretch. Basically as nimble as a Bullet, but with 3 inches more wheelbase.

Now for the kicker...
It's made so that there is a way to use UCE top ends on it, instead of the old Iron Barrel ones.
This hasn't been done yet, but it is possible in principle, and we should be trying one out when the engine cases aren't so hard to get.
However, it will use Iron Barrel cams and lifters, so there won't be hydraulic lifters, and you'll have to adjust your valves.
We might be able to get EFI on both cylinders, though. We'll work on that.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #70 on: November 14, 2013, 12:35:52 AM »
What's the advantage to using the UCE heads?

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #71 on: November 14, 2013, 12:41:00 AM »
What's the advantage to using the UCE heads?
No real advantage, other than it's the current production head, and with the right EFI tuning and perhaps a cat, it might pass emissions....
If it does, it can go on sale as a new bike.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 12:44:06 AM by ace.cafe »
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #72 on: November 14, 2013, 12:52:40 AM »
Ah.  Yeah, good to be able to use the new hardware, better availability.  Can he use the new cylinders too?

It'd be nice if you could spin the rear head 180 degrees and use a Y intake manifold and a single throttle body between them, but then the pushrods would be on the wrong side.

Scott

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #73 on: November 14, 2013, 01:00:30 AM »
Ah.  Yeah, good to be able to use the new hardware, better availability.  Can he use the new cylinders too?

It'd be nice if you could spin the rear head 180 degrees and use a Y intake manifold and a single throttle body between them, but then the pushrods would be on the wrong side.

Scott
Yes, and to do that it would need to use the UCE con-rods  and bearings too. Shorter length barrels need shorter length con-rods to go with them. Theoretically, it should all bolt right on, but the ECU and EFI stuff will need to be set up for a twin. Or else use carbs.

Yes, the heads don't allow the reversed orientation for the rear cylinder to share an intake like a Harley. But it works out fine with individual intakes.

But, it will need an Iron Barrel frame and gearbox, because it is not a unit construction design.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 01:03:12 AM by ace.cafe »
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #74 on: November 14, 2013, 02:01:39 AM »
Quote
Absolutely!  But the same can be said for most motos.  Not necessarily the status, but purchased mid-life with good intent, then it just sits in the garage.

Most likely true. Just look at all the HDs for sale by owners in Craig's List!
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #75 on: November 14, 2013, 02:28:01 AM »
I rode Harleys for years and years. Started out with used 45 cu inch, last one was an 88 cu inchtwin cam. Loved them all. Reliable and fun to ride. Heavy? You bet! Nonetheless, good bikes. Not sur why there are so many Harley haters around? My guess most have never owned one.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #76 on: November 14, 2013, 05:04:06 AM »
I've heard that more than a few Harley Hog riders are calling the new, smaller Harleys, "Piglets".

Any truth to that? :)
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #77 on: November 14, 2013, 05:43:06 AM »
I have also heard little pigs called CHOATS. Is that accurate?
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #78 on: November 14, 2013, 06:02:07 AM »
I rode Harleys for years and years. Started out with used 45 cu inch, last one was an 88 cu inchtwin cam. Loved them all. Reliable and fun to ride. Heavy? You bet! Nonetheless, good bikes. Not sur why there are so many Harley haters around? My guess most have never owned one.

Don't so much hate the bikes as the cult around them grown by the marketing machine.  Like owners who don't consider a Sporty a Harley, or a V-Rod, or 500/750.  C'mon, you can love tradition and embrace progress at the same time.  And the owners who've never owned anything else, have less than 1000 miles on the bike, and swear there's nothing else like it.  How would they know?

The bikes themselves are solid, though not my style.  And the prices are just way too high.

Scott

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #79 on: November 14, 2013, 06:21:05 AM »
Considering the Sportster is the longest running production model for Harley Davidson it's funny the riders don't consider it a REAL Harley.  I really didn't consider the American market when I heard about the new Street line from Harley, but I think the 750 will be very competitive if priced right.  Considering the new engines are based on the V-Rod motor it should be a good bike.

Heard a rumor this weekend that Royal Enfield is working on its own 750 twin that should come to market in the next two years.  Looking at the cradle frame on the Continental GT it has a lot of extra room with the 535 mounted.

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #80 on: November 14, 2013, 01:06:22 PM »
Here's my gripe with Harleys.  When the damn thing vibrates so much it starts blurring your vision, well, that's just unacceptable.  Not to mention you still have to hold on to freaking thing.  So, let's go throw some ape hangers on it and see just how uncomfortable and dangerous we can make this bike.  Just not a fan, probably never will be.  Used to be as a kid before I knew better.

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #81 on: November 14, 2013, 01:15:23 PM »
Considering the Sportster is the longest running production model for Harley Davidson it's funny the riders don't consider it a REAL Harley.  I really didn't consider the American market when I heard about the new Street line from Harley, but I think the 750 will be very competitive if priced right.  Considering the new engines are based on the V-Rod motor it should be a good bike.

Heard a rumor this weekend that Royal Enfield is working on its own 750 twin that should come to market in the next two years.  Looking at the cradle frame on the Continental GT it has a lot of extra room with the 535 mounted.
Something like this perhaps?

http://www.google.com/search?q=glynn+kerr+royal+enfield&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=PcyEUt_QGa_K4APr1IHADw&ved=0CDoQsAQ&biw=1008&bih=568
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #82 on: November 14, 2013, 02:42:58 PM »
The RE twin has been discussed here before and the factory has hinted at it.  We al figured that's what the stout frame if the continental was really for.  I forget what, but something made the factory put it on the back burner.

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #83 on: November 14, 2013, 03:48:02 PM »
Most likely true. Just look at all the HDs for sale by owners in Craig's List!

       A lot of the flooding of the market with used harleys started back in the early '80s with the shift in sales techniques & the incredible influence that bullshit cable TV network "motorcycle clown shows" had on who & why guys bought harleys or had them built for them at unbelievable cost by both legitimate & bullshit artist "custom chopper builders".

       There were many years when every harley that arrived at a dealer's was already sold & you had to buy $3,000 worth of Chinese accessories before you could even get on the list to buy one.

        Then, after the divorced guy, who had just spent $30,000 to $80,000 on a "factory custom" or a "master builder" custom "chopper" (on a SoftTail frame, of course)  had spent a season or two on it & spent a fortune on Just For Men, Viagra & Officially Approved Chinese Motorclothes, he found out he STILL couldn't get laid by 20 year old girls plus the bike hurt his back & the Oxycodone wasn't working any more & he got caught in the rain once & got wet, poor baby.  So the bike sits for a year & then ends up on Craig's List at a ridiculous price he thinks somebody will pay for a bike HE thinks is "rare" or "one of a kind".

       I've watched this whole thing happen day by day for over thirty years & laughed since the late '70s & just kept on riding on what I built in my own garage never darkening a dealer's door since about '81 or '82 when I got thoroughly disgusted with the Motor Company as a company especially after they started shutting down small bike shops that had supported them for years with ridiculous infringement law suits. I stopped caring much at all after the end of the shovelhead ('84 1/2). I've just sat back & been an observer of the clown show (or Pirate Show as some others have called it).

       Don't get me wrong. I still love harleys & still ride a kick only I built myself (the last of three). I also kind of laugh at how much pure nasty hatred there seems to be from some of the RE people here at both the bikes & the riders. Why? There is something I like about every single motorcycle on the planet if I look at it long enough. There are many that I can just sit and stare at & marvel at for hours, but not necessarily ever want to own one. Why the hatred of harleys. Is there some "If it's American it can't be any good" thing going on here? Have they been beat up by pirates?  :) Harley's still selling bikes. Lots of them. 110 years? They're doing something right (I guess) even though I think they're WAY overpriced & I don't like their advertising or their overbearing attitude. Or the huge % of the bike that's Chinese. Or the fact that ALL the accessories are Chinese.       
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D the D

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #84 on: November 14, 2013, 04:00:51 PM »
Tooseevee:  Here, Here, and well stated.
Can't figure out the hatred either.  It's like hating Suzuki because of the kids zipping in and out of traffic on the highway on their go fasters or hating BMW because they cost too much.
I don't like the marketing, I don't like what pop culture has made them, I don't like many of the owners, but I don't hate the bikes or the company for what has been a successful marketing strategy until now.  I just don't find them to be what I want to ride or pay for.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #85 on: November 14, 2013, 04:33:16 PM »
I don't hate Harleys, I have owned a couple that I modified to my taste. When they became to heavy for me to pick up, I gave up on them. It is easy to make fun of lots of Harley riders (& I am guilty).I just found I preferred the traditional European bikes.
   Everything changes, the British industry collapsed, over the years BMW became more & more arrogant, Harleys are on a completely different planet. Now I find now the only thing that interests me in the Motorcycle press are articles on older bikes. I'm personally bored, disappointed, & not very interested in what Motorcycling has become. Prices today are well beyond my reach, & many of the machines turned out, are beyond the abilities of most owners to maintain personally. I would never want to own something tying me to the extortion of a mercenary dealer network.
  Although I notice, & look over all the new offerings, I haven't yet found anything new as personally satisfying as the Royal Enfield line.  Perhaps this is just because I'm older, & cherish the bond between owner & machine that isn't as impersonal as a relationship with an Appliance.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #86 on: November 14, 2013, 04:39:32 PM »
Then, after the divorced guy, who had just spent $30,000 to $80,000 on a "factory custom" or a "master builder" custom "chopper" (on a SoftTail frame, of course)  had spent a season or two on it & spent a fortune on Just For Men, Viagra & Officially Approved Chinese Motorclothes, he found out he STILL couldn't get laid by 20 year old girls plus the bike hurt his back & the Oxycodone wasn't working any more & he got caught in the rain once & got wet, poor baby.  So the bike sits for a year & then ends up on Craig's List at a ridiculous price he thinks somebody will pay for a bike HE thinks is "rare" or "one of a kind".


Haaaaaaaaaaa,,, That 's funny as hell...I don't know enough about Harleys to even get into it...Most of their riders here wave at me (Could be they're not sure what I'm riding "enfield" or my debadged 1100)   I've only been to their dealerships once or twice..They sell just about anything and everything associated with their brand ...Like most things these days, it's all marked up out of the box stuff from The Peoples Republic of China...I still think they may do well with the younger customer base and maybe even a few older guys who don't want a heavy bike...I'm assuming both of these bikes are lighter than a 883..For what it worth/ My wife Korean Hyosung 250 cc is known as a piglet in that circle of ownership..
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #87 on: November 14, 2013, 05:29:22 PM »
       A lot of the flooding of the market with used harleys started back in the early '80s with the shift in sales techniques & the incredible influence that bullshit cable TV network "motorcycle clown shows" had on who & why guys bought harleys or had them built for them at unbelievable cost by both legitimate & bullshit artist "custom chopper builders".

       There were many years when every harley that arrived at a dealer's was already sold & you had to buy $3,000 worth of Chinese accessories before you could even get on the list to buy one.

        Then, after the divorced guy, who had just spent $30,000 to $80,000 on a "factory custom" or a "master builder" custom "chopper" (on a SoftTail frame, of course)  had spent a season or two on it & spent a fortune on Just For Men, Viagra & Officially Approved Chinese Motorclothes, he found out he STILL couldn't get laid by 20 year old girls plus the bike hurt his back & the Oxycodone wasn't working any more & he got caught in the rain once & got wet, poor baby.  So the bike sits for a year & then ends up on Craig's List at a ridiculous price he thinks somebody will pay for a bike HE thinks is "rare" or "one of a kind".

       I've watched this whole thing happen day by day for over thirty years & laughed since the late '70s & just kept on riding on what I built in my own garage never darkening a dealer's door since about '81 or '82 when I got thoroughly disgusted with the Motor Company as a company especially after they started shutting down small bike shops that had supported them for years with ridiculous infringement law suits. I stopped caring much at all after the end of the shovelhead ('84 1/2). I've just sat back & been an observer of the clown show (or Pirate Show as some others have called it).

       Don't get me wrong. I still love harleys & still ride a kick only I built myself (the last of three). I also kind of laugh at how much pure nasty hatred there seems to be from some of the RE people here at both the bikes & the riders. Why? There is something I like about every single motorcycle on the planet if I look at it long enough. There are many that I can just sit and stare at & marvel at for hours, but not necessarily ever want to own one. Why the hatred of harleys. Is there some "If it's American it can't be any good" thing going on here? Have they been beat up by pirates?  :) Harley's still selling bikes. Lots of them. 110 years? They're doing something right (I guess) even though I think they're WAY overpriced & I don't like their advertising or their overbearing attitude. Or the huge % of the bike that's Chinese. Or the fact that ALL the accessories are Chinese.     

You mean, like the first four paragraphs of your post?    ;D ;)

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #88 on: November 14, 2013, 05:34:24 PM »
I do remember the days, not long ago, when a two or three year old HD would sell for more than MSRP of a new one because the new was selling for way more than MSRP because of the waiting list.

Scott

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #89 on: November 14, 2013, 05:41:32 PM »
When I recently looked at HDs and ended up with the Yamaha, the two HD dealers wanted more than MSRP.  As one said; "Someone is going to buy that bike at that price."  Whereas, the Yamaha dealer said he'd knock $1k of if I wanted to take it with me.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #90 on: November 14, 2013, 06:12:02 PM »
And someone will.  Harley's marketing is amazing but gets under my skin.  It's the same thing that makes me angry at the US auto industry.  After just getting bailed out because foreing competition crushed them, their current flagship products are just re-hashes of gas guzzling muscle cars, ironically brought out at a time when world oil demand is causing shortages which is what ended the original muscle car golden age.  Are they selling well?  You bet they are!  It just bugs me that a) the best thing our country can come up with is a retread and b) the buying public think that's just dandy.  Meanwhile Japan is kicking butt in the hybrid market and even though Tesla's cars are amazing people still don't want to buy electric.  It's sad when we value nostalgia over progress to such a degree.

Scott

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #91 on: November 14, 2013, 08:31:52 PM »
You mean, like the first four paragraphs of your post?    ;D ;)

        Yup. You got me  :)  Touche' for you.

         Yes, there are many new bikers I just cannot stand. It started getting really bad in the mid-'80s. It actually stopped me going to gas stations most of the time. Started storing gas in my garage & filling up there. I got sick of idiots rushing over to me & immediately saying something totally stupid like "Oh, You must watch OCC" "No, I HATE them. Leave me alone".I can't BE with them, I can't RIDE with them, I can't TALK to them. And the older ones are worse than the younger ones. They think it gives them an instant "lifestyle"? It gives them shit. Especially the ones who just canNOT keep their mouths shut & prove how much they don't know as soon as they open theirs.

        Yes, I'm a tough taskmaster. My bullshit alarms are very sensitive. I can't help it & don't apologize for it. I've earned every ruined joint I have & I built this bloody black bitch from nothing so don't run over to me & tell me you used to have one just like it. This is just part of why I stopped going to gas stations.

        I thought of deleting this up to the first sentence because it's SO impossible to get across what you really mean just in typed words, but what the hell. See what happens. I'm really not the mean bastard I sound like. I just can't tolerate smart asses & little pricks & knowitalls & phonies any more. Especially the ones who have zero history knowledge & then try to defend the stupid things they say.

     (I'll be sorry I sent this. I just know it).

         
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tooseevee

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #92 on: November 14, 2013, 08:34:41 PM »
And someone will.
Scott

       Someone will what, Scott?  You didn't quote anything. It's very confusing to an old, worn out fuck like me when folks answer something but don't quote anything.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #93 on: November 14, 2013, 08:35:44 PM »
Sorry, someone will buy it at that price.  Woulda made more sense if the page didn't break right there ;)

Scott

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #94 on: November 14, 2013, 09:57:50 PM »
"page break" he'll have to wait for the second page to print out on the teletype printer in the basement,,, ;D
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #95 on: November 14, 2013, 10:09:01 PM »
        Yup. You got me  :)  Touche' for you.

         Yes, there are many new bikers I just cannot stand. It started getting really bad in the mid-'80s. It actually stopped me going to gas stations most of the time. Started storing gas in my garage & filling up there. I got sick of idiots rushing over to me & immediately saying something totally stupid like "Oh, You must watch OCC" "No, I HATE them. Leave me alone".I can't BE with them, I can't RIDE with them, I can't TALK to them. And the older ones are worse than the younger ones. They think it gives them an instant "lifestyle"? It gives them shit. Especially the ones who just canNOT keep their mouths shut & prove how much they don't know as soon as they open theirs.

        Yes, I'm a tough taskmaster. My bullshit alarms are very sensitive. I can't help it & don't apologize for it. I've earned every ruined joint I have & I built this bloody black bitch from nothing so don't run over to me & tell me you used to have one just like it. This is just part of why I stopped going to gas stations.

        I thought of deleting this up to the first sentence because it's SO impossible to get across what you really mean just in typed words, but what the hell. See what happens. I'm really not the mean bastard I sound like. I just can't tolerate smart asses & little pricks & knowitalls & phonies any more. Especially the ones who have zero history knowledge & then try to defend the stupid things they say.

     (I'll be sorry I sent this. I just know it).

         


  OUTSTANDING !!.......  Love it.  Sorry !?  For what ?  Good honest non boo shit speak ?  Don't be  ;)   
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hillntx

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #96 on: November 15, 2013, 01:55:01 AM »
Something like this perhaps?

No specifics yet...

hillntx

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #97 on: November 15, 2013, 02:21:47 AM »
I like the look of Harley bikes, but I'm not a fan.  I don't like the whole loud pipe, black leather lifestyle and the attitude that if your not riding a Harley than its a piece of crap.  The V-Rod was the most technically advanced bike Harley ever made and it was cast aside like a step child for many years.  Harley makes a lot of money selling an inferior product to a group of people that think they're great.  Not only that but the people think they're so great they wear the Harley label on every stitch of clothing, every vehicle they own and tattoo it on their bodies.  Great marketing of a so-so product.

I hope the new 500 and 750cc bikes catch on.  I'd like to see an 1800cc version of the liquid cooled motor in future bikes; maybe then the bikes will be as good as their riders think they are.  If I wanted an American made cruiser to really ride I'd buy a Victory.

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #98 on: November 15, 2013, 03:07:49 AM »
+1     ::)
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #99 on: November 15, 2013, 04:52:35 AM »
its prolly a sin but I dig the victory high ball

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #100 on: November 15, 2013, 05:17:13 AM »
I dig it too, though I doubt I'd like riding it.

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #101 on: November 15, 2013, 04:25:22 PM »
I'm not a hater of the HD or its riders as, a rule. One of the people I most admire is a HD purist. (I asked him about his switch to Ape Hangers on his Sporty. His reason was simple. A more comfortable ride for him, so to each his own. Not for me though.)
But I do agree with tooseevee, Scottie, hillntx, ghg, and others about the disgusting mystique that has developed due to the marketing hype for a less than A+ quality bike and the sheer stupidity of those that buy into it for the wrong reasons. No different than the Hummer craze. These people (Bummers and Riders) do piss me off because everything is so obviously about image and $$$. Their image and $$$. They're not into it for the ride, but the need to be seen on the most expensive contraption they can find, even if all they do is take it to the WalMart parking lot and look like they're making a commercial getting there. The whole Logos and Bandanas thing is a real turn off to me. I will not even talk to them.
As for the bikes, I really do like the looks of the Sporty, but even the 883 is just too heavy and vibrates too much for me. The new 500/750s look great too, but I'd have to test ride one before deciding one way or another.
The big ones just remind me of up-graded 1955 Buicks (same for the Indian). No apologies from me there. They just do not appeal to me, cuz I've always leaned toward the somewhat different. Prolly the closest other one out there I'm interested in is the Suz Intruder 800. I like the looks, but haven't ridden one yet.
The more I think about it, the more my next one will be a RE. When they do show up on CL the prices ain't bad.  :D
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crush02342002

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #102 on: November 15, 2013, 04:38:07 PM »
I dig it too, though I doubt I'd like riding it.

Scott

your prolly right but there is only one way to find out ;)

Ducati Scotty

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #103 on: November 15, 2013, 05:39:10 PM »
Y'know, I do need to take an afternoon in the spring and go do some test rides.  Who am I kidding?  I'm a slut, I'll ride anything you hand me the keys to.  I just may not buy it. ;)

Scott

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #104 on: November 15, 2013, 07:46:21 PM »
  What do they say about the News or the Press ?

  7 pages about a new Harley ON a Royal Enfield forum and more in multiple sections...... Geeez, we need to stop !  ::)   


 I even have young kids at work coming up to me and asking me what I think about them ! ....... Gawd ! :-X
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #105 on: November 15, 2013, 07:52:46 PM »
I dunno, interesting to discuss it here.  And like I said before, first fresh idea they've had in quite some time.  We won't tell the kids at work if you talk to us about it ;)

Scott

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #106 on: November 15, 2013, 07:57:25 PM »
  What do they say about the News or the Press ?

  7 pages about a new Harley ON a Royal Enfield forum and more in multiple sections...... Geeez, we need to stop !  ::)   

 I even have young kids at work coming up to me and asking me what I think about them ! ....... Gawd ! :-X

             I agree. We've spent way too much time on harleys & it all just gets too complicated. It's like if we were to start on all the cars some of us have had (& why). "Oh, I hate those" "Why do you like THAT car?" "I like THIS car" "Your car sucks".

            It all just gets too compullcated (& harley already gets ENUFF free advertising from those Chinese T-shirts)   :) ;)
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #107 on: November 15, 2013, 08:17:14 PM »
I dunno, interesting to discuss it here.  And like I said before, first fresh idea they've had in quite some time.  We won't tell the kids at work if you talk to us about it ;)

Scott


   D'oh !!!..... That just made it 8 pages !  LOL !

 Too late, they are probably already reading this !  and I've been workin' the whole...you know.... Be different, get an Enfield ... a GT even... or anything but a Harley type thing !   Trying to get 'em when they are young and all... you know.  he..he..he

  Do'h !!.... there I go adding to this ! ::) :-X
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #108 on: November 15, 2013, 08:38:06 PM »
GHG - don't worry, it's not as bad as you think:  I've changed my forum settings so each page shows 50 posts, and as a result, this thread is only giving them three pages of free advertising...   ;)

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #109 on: November 15, 2013, 08:56:40 PM »
As for the bikes, I really do like the looks of the Sporty, but even the 883 is just too heavy and vibrates too much for me.

Be curious to see if the 500cc/750cc  even comes close to the 883 characteristics...It has what they call a Revolution X powerplant with lineage from the 01 Vrod..Both bikes are 80 lbs lighter than a 883 and have steel tank and fenders...They are using a single balance shaft to minimize the vibration..The stock seating is considered neutral and they added 2 inches front to rear vice the 883.. Either power plant is matched to a 6 speed transmission..Both Bikes are identical except for the bore...6700 to 7500 respectively but I  more like 7500 - 9000 with markup, taxes,etc...
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #110 on: November 15, 2013, 08:58:42 PM »
Yes, that motor looks much more modern than most of their lineup.  I suspect it looks like a Harley but the motor and chassis are closer to the nicer manners of all the Asian clones.

Scott

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #111 on: November 15, 2013, 10:13:47 PM »
GHG - don't worry, it's not as bad as you think:  I've changed my forum settings so each page shows 50 posts, and as a result, this thread is only giving them three pages of free advertising...   ;)

    I hope so Matt.  But.. They are " Mad Good"  with their touchy phones and all.  ;)
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #112 on: November 15, 2013, 10:27:50 PM »
Do these things have a kicker, or are they only thumb-starters?
Probably thumb start only, I reckon.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #113 on: November 15, 2013, 10:50:36 PM »
Do these things have a kicker, or are they only thumb-starters?
Probably thumb start only, I reckon.
Push button only, of course. 

We could start another thread about the Yamaha SR400, coming (back) to Europe for 2014.  Kick-starter only.  Maybe it will return to the states.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #114 on: November 16, 2013, 12:06:21 AM »
Push button only, of course. 

We could start another thread about the Yamaha SR400, coming (back) to Europe for 2014.  Kick-starter only.  Maybe it will return to the states.

Now you're talking...
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #115 on: November 16, 2013, 12:28:14 AM »
I would love to see the SR 400 come here.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #116 on: November 16, 2013, 05:29:30 AM »
I would love to see the SR 400 come here.

+1
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #117 on: November 16, 2013, 03:44:33 PM »
I would love to see the SR 400 come here.

+1

I would love to see just about anything besides another Harley.   ;D

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #118 on: November 16, 2013, 03:59:56 PM »
Just watched a recent video from Japan where they were manufacturing new SR 400..Nice bike with a legacy (SR 500)...Makes you wonder why they won't import them here. It's not like the bike won't meet our EPA regs...Yamaha must think they're isn't enough of a market to hassle with it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06pFjjclERA
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #119 on: November 16, 2013, 04:52:44 PM »
As a marketing thing, the lack of an electric starter will probably kill it like it did the SRX-6.
After the Britbikes went away, so did kickstarters. The SR500 was probably the last of the marketable kickstart-only street bikes. The hoi polloi just won't buy them anymore. That goes for Enfields, too. Their sales are up because of electric starters, especially when they work!  Some people still want kick starters on their bikes, but they don't necessarily want to rely on them! When was the last time you went out and handcranked your car?
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #120 on: November 16, 2013, 05:18:52 PM »
Just watched a recent video from Japan where they were manufacturing new SR 400..Nice bike with a legacy (SR 500)...Makes you wonder why they won't import them here. It's not like the bike won't meet our EPA regs...Yamaha must think they're isn't enough of a market to hassle with it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06pFjjclERA
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #121 on: November 16, 2013, 05:21:42 PM »
Their sales are up because of electric starters, especially when they work!

So true , we all know that the electric start was never part of the original design of the enfield..They tried 2 years without the kickstart feature and the customer base started to complain about worn out shattered sprags.  Shortly thereafter, the return of the kick start and a beefer sprag construction became the order of the day....We were hopeful that comments on that subject may had made some difference re. their decision to return the kickstart feature on their latest product line ..
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #122 on: November 16, 2013, 08:52:43 PM »
Wo, hoho...
This is a kicker like there ain't none other.
http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/eu/products/motorcycles/sport-heritage/sr400.aspx?view=features
See, a decompressor and a piston position indicator. Visual aid on the bike to teach every newbie the art of kicking.  :o

Bike is available in Europe, guess it will make it across the pond too.  ;)
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #123 on: November 16, 2013, 09:22:10 PM »
Piston position indicator!  And I was wondering why they were showing timing marks in the sales brochure :)

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #124 on: November 17, 2013, 06:17:23 AM »
The new Harley Street 750 is so popular that Captain America will be riding it in the upcoming sequel.

Or maybe it is HD marketing doing a good job.   ;)
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #125 on: November 17, 2013, 12:38:22 PM »
I always knew that guy was a sissy!

BTW, Hondohm, good effort with your post!  Colored text and everything... very patriotic!  ;)

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #126 on: November 17, 2013, 02:00:41 PM »
The new Harley Street 750 is so popular that Captain America will be riding it in the upcoming sequel.

Or maybe it is HD marketing doing a good job.   ;)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!     ;D  ;D  ;D

Who the hell thought THIS was a good idea?!  As far as super heroes on motorcycles go, this pic is the equivalent of the Incredible Hulk riding a Vespa!  Holy crap is that a funny pic!  LMAO  ;D

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #127 on: November 17, 2013, 05:25:23 PM »
All geared to the people who will go that movie...Haaaaaaaa and he look just as funny on a Enfield too......I think a Vmax would be better suited for his super hero needs...
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #128 on: November 17, 2013, 11:32:24 PM »
Piston position indicator!  And I was wondering why they were showing timing marks in the sales brochure :)

Trust me- Still ain't easy to start. Don't put on your jacket till you get it runnin.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #129 on: November 18, 2013, 02:45:00 AM »
bike looks....well....ummmm.....tiny :o

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #130 on: November 18, 2013, 06:06:29 AM »
V-Max?!?!?!?  Captain America don't ride no import!!!  I'd say we need V-Rod to set things straight.  And I suspect that yes, they're brand placing the 750 for the crowd that's going to see it.  Might even be a Captain America special edition that comes out.  Ducati had some Matrix specials, I think after the second movie.

Scott ;)

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #131 on: November 18, 2013, 01:07:55 PM »
I would say great effort but it is still an evolution of the TT500. At 174 kg it is a bit porky too. Now if it looked like an RE.....
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #132 on: November 18, 2013, 03:02:18 PM »
We do not weigh Harley's in kilograms!!!

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #133 on: November 18, 2013, 03:10:11 PM »
Duc: U getting really hung up today on the import/measurement thing...Okay I'll give ya that one on the vmax..Even though I think it would out perform the Vrod and get Capt America outta some serious do do ...Could be his mighty shield is made in China now... ;D
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #134 on: November 18, 2013, 03:15:19 PM »
(Sigh)  There's just no respect around here :(

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #135 on: November 18, 2013, 03:19:09 PM »
Sorry DC, i'm too dumb to convert to #. ;D ;D ;D

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #136 on: November 18, 2013, 03:52:31 PM »
It's Monday..Gotta start the week off proper..
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #137 on: November 18, 2013, 03:55:18 PM »
A lot of HD hate going on despite denials of it.  Well, considering no one here has ridden one yet any opinions are just so much speculation.  Don't like and it ain't your thing, fine, but don't knock it just because it isn't what you happen to like riding today.  HD is going to make money and stay in business whether any of us care or not.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #138 on: November 18, 2013, 04:39:31 PM »
+ 1  .Gonna read some of the Harley Blogs tonight and see what the general consensus is on it..
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #139 on: November 18, 2013, 05:45:36 PM »
Here's a interview/article with New Delhi Harley Davidson's managing director Anoop Prakash.
Looks like the 500 isnt going to be released in India until they test the waters with the 750.

"Street 750 will be coming to India first and not the Street 500. We have got a lot of feedback and Street 750 is what a lot of people want and they are looking forward to it. They wanted to have the same power but also the manoeuvrability that comes with the Street platform. "
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #140 on: November 19, 2013, 02:04:13 PM »
This is a good move and I might be buying a 750 if priced right. It has lot of goodies over typical Harley - Higher GC, longer suspension travel, water cooled, 4 valves per head,SOHC, lighter, narrow.
I remember reading somewhere that 500 is69mmX66mm and 750 is 85mmX66mm and redline is around 8000 rpm. If this is true, even the power output is quite high for a Harley.  :)
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #141 on: November 19, 2013, 04:05:56 PM »
We do not weigh Harley's in kilograms!!!

           Neither do we put an apostrophe in it   :)   ;)
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #142 on: November 19, 2013, 04:19:51 PM »
Trust me- Still ain't easy to start. Don't put on your jacket till you get it runnin.

            How do you know? Do you have one? Do you kickstart it?

            I'm 75 & I ride a kick only shovelhead & I start it just fine any time I feel like it & have had nothing but kick onlys since '83 & before THAT I had a kick with a Jap starter that I never used. I kicked it.

            Anybody who knows what they're talking about can set up a harley engine to kickstart. If they don't kick start it's usually in the tuning & that's true with ANY bike. If the engine is a basic piece of shit from the start, of course it won't kickstart, but otherwise it's something in the tuning. Neglect ANYthing & it won't run right.

             I'm just tired of groundless harley criticism I don't care how many you've "owned before".
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #143 on: November 19, 2013, 04:35:45 PM »
If they don't kick start it's usually in the tuning & that's true with ANY bike. If the engine is a basic piece of shit from the start, of course it won't kickstart, but otherwise it's something in the tuning. Neglect ANYthing & it won't run right.

Gotta say, that's a accurate statement...Don't forget operator error too, That seems to catch people and makes kickstarting a bit of a chore..
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #144 on: November 19, 2013, 04:40:50 PM »
Most people just hop on and do the Redneck kick.  Every type of engine has it's own procedure - look at the RE.  If you don't know the procedure she is either not going to start or going to hurt you.  99% of the time it's not the bike, it's lack of knowledge.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #145 on: November 19, 2013, 05:57:47 PM »
           Neither do we put an apostrophe in it   :)   ;)

Busted!  Damn you auto-correct!

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #146 on: November 19, 2013, 08:38:50 PM »
            How do you know? Do you have one? Do you kickstart it?

            I'm 75 & I ride a kick only shovelhead & I start it just fine any time I feel like it & have had nothing but kick onlys since '83 & before THAT I had a kick with a Jap starter that I never used. I kicked it.

            Anybody who knows what they're talking about can set up a harley engine to kickstart. If they don't kick start it's usually in the tuning & that's true with ANY bike. If the engine is a basic piece of shit from the start, of course it won't kickstart, but otherwise it's something in the tuning. Neglect ANYthing & it won't run right.

             I'm just tired of groundless harley criticism I don't care how many you've "owned before".

TOOSEEVEE, You got me all wrong, I was talking about My Yamaha SR500 being hard to hard **FOR ME** to kick start (I'M 67 + prosthetic left hip, screws in right foot & ankle, toasted knees) For that matter EVERYTHING is now to hard for ME to kick anymore.  Although I have fond memories of hours of enjoyment kick starting my 2 PANHEADS, BSA's, Triumphs, Norton, Matchless, Ducati's. As Nothing was Electric start but wimpy jap bikes back then. Sooner or later we all get to frail to do lots of things we liked. I couldn't ride anymore without a self starter.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #147 on: November 19, 2013, 09:27:59 PM »
Interesting review below.  From a MSF trainer. 

http://rideapart.com/2013/11/2014-harley-davidson-street-500-review/
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #148 on: November 19, 2013, 09:54:25 PM »
Not a overall positive write-up was it..Comments were interesting...Looks like the 500cc is a Harley out the door for just under 8k , tags. tax..etc....
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #149 on: November 19, 2013, 10:06:00 PM »
My SR500s were always pretty easy to start. I used them for commuting and never had any problems with them at all. My TT500 on the other hand could be a real PITA to start sometimes, usually in the most inopportune spots. I remember the beast stopping down at the bottom of a crater like hole that walking out of was going to be a pain even without thinking about pushing the bike! In fact, that was one of my last dirt riding experiences. I had quit racing and was getting tired of driving 150 miles to go dirt riding. I sold my last two dirt bikes and said goodby to the sport. Then I got serious about playing on the mountain roads and road racing circuits.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #150 on: November 20, 2013, 12:13:59 AM »
Not a overall positive write-up was it..Comments were interesting...Looks like the 500cc is a Harley out the door for just under 8k , tags. tax..etc....

Agree.  I was surprised at the street weight of the bike at 480?   I thought from other reports I read it was under 400lbs?  Fit and finish comments were poor quality!
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #151 on: November 20, 2013, 12:19:39 AM »
Is that 480 with the extra orange guards on it?  I don't think they're 80# but they have to weigh something.

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #152 on: November 20, 2013, 12:33:00 AM »
Interesting review below.  From a MSF trainer. 

http://rideapart.com/2013/11/2014-harley-davidson-street-500-review/
I wonder if this was an India built Street 500.  The build quality he describes is somewhat similar to picks and pans about the Enfield build quality and overall QC over the last 8 years or so.

The 24HP mentioned seems low, but I imagine that US buyers would prefer the 750 version.

Nonetheless, it is not a ringing endorsement from the reviewer.  480# wet was the announced weight early on.

Ducati Scotty, how many KG is that?   ;)
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #153 on: November 20, 2013, 12:49:30 AM »
The only acceptable time to use the metric system is when measuring in s**ttons.  A metric s**tton is just slightly more, and so usually the proper unit to use.

Scott

tooseevee

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #154 on: November 20, 2013, 01:26:05 AM »
TOOSEEVEE, You got me all wrong, I was talking about My Yamaha SR500 being hard to hard **FOR ME** to kick start (I'M 67 + prosthetic left hip, screws in right foot & ankle, toasted knees) For that matter EVERYTHING is now to hard for ME to kick anymore.  Although I have fond memories of hours of enjoyment kick starting my 2 PANHEADS, BSA's, Triumphs, Norton, Matchless, Ducati's. As Nothing was Electric start but wimpy jap bikes back then. Sooner or later we all get to frail to do lots of things we liked. I couldn't ride anymore without a self starter.

           Sorry. Your post didn't leave it clear what you were referring to & your previous harley remarks just led me down the wrong path. I still say it's in the set up, the tuneup & the maintenance.

           Let's see. The last year for the panhead was 1965 & 1965 was the only electric start panhead so all the thousands of pans made after the knuckle were kick only & you got the two bad ones?   :)  Maintenance? Manual advance & retard? Timing?

           Sorry. I know. Some of them are real bastards, but I love them all. My best man at my wedding in '89 rode a 1954 pan & once in a while we had some lonnnng waits while it was being bitchy. Luckily it wasn't too often. I hated those RI winter toy runs (I was married in December & THEN went on a toy run). 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 01:26:45 PM by tooseevee »
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #155 on: December 16, 2013, 04:04:18 PM »
Well put twoceevee!
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #156 on: December 16, 2013, 05:12:23 PM »
kinda feel sorry for hardly when royal enfield stops playing around and brings out the 700-800cc vertical twin. India enfield home market will be able to stay brand loyal and get to buy a 45+hp fuel injected electric start lighweight twin. its not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. If you look at the rickman mattise interceptor frame of old and the new 535 gt their are more similarities than differences. wait and see.

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #157 on: December 16, 2013, 05:57:32 PM »
I think we've all said that the Conti is just a warm up for the twin that is to come.  That frame looks just perfect for a vertical twin.  But as RE said they were cooling on the twin project for a while and the Conti still hasn't arrived in US showrooms, well, I'm not holding my breath ;)

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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #158 on: December 16, 2013, 06:03:31 PM »
We don't know what will happen with the twin. It's in their hands, and as Ducati Scotty says, they don't seem to be talking about it anymore.
I'd say it would be a likely thing for them to do, but I don't know.

As for 45hp, and lightweight and nimble, I think that is already coming to fruition with the Iron Barrel single cylinder 500/535. The UCE single also might be possible to reach that too, if there is demand for it.

If they are going to make a twin, at least they should make it have more power than we can wring out of their singles.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #159 on: December 16, 2013, 06:03:54 PM »
It sounds like learning to fly in a Cessna One-Filthy. You can learn how to ride a Hardley 500, the you'll have to go out and learn how to ride a motorcycle.
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #160 on: December 18, 2013, 09:34:58 PM »
...........India enfield home market will be able to stay brand loyal and get to buy a 45+hp fuel injected electric start lighweight twin............

yeah, maybe, but where would one ride it to its limit ?
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Re: 500 cc Harley
« Reply #161 on: December 18, 2013, 10:21:40 PM »
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