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Author Topic: Mikuni TM-32 fittment  (Read 2335 times)

motoguzzibill

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Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« on: November 18, 2013, 03:38:56 PM »
I just ordered a Mikuni TM-32 for my 07' Electra. Someone on the list mentioned that they were available through Amazon for a good price. My bike currently has the 29mm CV carb on it. I am wondering if I can use the rubber mount that holds the 29mm CV for the TM-32 or if I need to order another Mikuni manifold from Sudco. Anybody been here, done this? I'll likely be looking for an after-market air filter. Suggestions on what works best?
TIA,
Bill N

ace.cafe

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2013, 04:40:03 PM »
You need the Sudco rubber manifold that fits the 32-34mm carbs, and has the right spacing for the studs. The rubber manifold that NField Gear uses for their 34mm carb kit will work.

You can use a K&N pod filter, or an Ace Air Canister will fit on there too.
You can probably guess which one I think you should use.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head Conversion. Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available anywhere.  AVL mods available. UCE kit coming.

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DanB

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2013, 07:51:53 PM »
Another option. Ace makes an alloy intake manifold as well. If you follow the link to the yahoo group in Ace's signature and into the pictures, you find it in the folder of ace products. This is the option I plan on using.
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armando_chavez

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2013, 02:29:21 AM »
Im a college student and broke ivr been running the tm32 with the stock flange

dampking

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2013, 04:57:18 AM »
You can even bore out the existing flange to match the 40mm OD of TM32 I think.

ace.cafe

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2013, 09:18:50 AM »
You can even bore out the existing flange to match the 40mm OD of TM32 I think.

I don't know if this can be done to the AVL manifold. Maybe it can.
I do know that it cannot be done with an Iron Barrel manifold.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head Conversion. Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available anywhere.  AVL mods available. UCE kit coming.

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TejK

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2013, 10:22:45 AM »
Im a college student and broke ivr been running the tm32 with the stock flange

I understand what you are talking about - I bought my bike 10 years ago when I was studying and know how things are at that time. Until recently, I was running my TM34 on the stock flange from the AVL on my AVL engine. However, it a crazy tight fit and the rubber cracked after a few hundred kilometers. I have switched to the flange for the Classic 350 now. It seems to be of a tougher material and has been holding up pretty well. I don't think you should bore it out too much as these are prone to cracking under the vacuum. And if your bike/plug suddenly starts running too  lean this should be the first thing to check for cracks.

I use these on my bike as these are easy to come by here in India and can be replaced for a fraction of the cost of a sourcing a larger flange. The best would be to save up and get a perfectly matched manifold as Ace suggested.

DanB

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2013, 03:00:11 PM »
A proper Mikuni 30-34 mm flange is about $25.  I think this model, M-VM34-200K, should do it.  http://www.nichecycle.com/ncs/index.php/frontpage-slider/carb-flange-carburetor-flange-adapters-rubber-by-mikuni.html

Right part for the job means less problems later (nasty lean condition), and more consistent performance.
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motoguzzibill

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2013, 03:33:01 PM »
Dan B,
  Thanks for the lead on the rubber flange. The price couldn't be beat and I don't think I would have found this on my own. Now I hope the jetting on the Mikuni TM-32 on order is in the ballpark. Playing the "right jet game" usually ends with a pot of brass jets. Any suggestions on starting points with jets?
Bill N

tooseevee

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2013, 03:55:52 PM »
A proper Mikuni 30-34 mm flange is about $25.  I think this model, M-VM34-200K, should do it.  http://www.nichecycle.com/ncs/index.php/frontpage-slider/carb-flange-carburetor-flange-adapters-rubber-by-mikuni.html

Right part for the job means less problems later (nasty lean condition), and more consistent performance.

              Thanks for that part #, Dan.

               I'm just about ready to pull the trigger on a TM-32 even if I don't put it on until after next year's riding season. I can't see passing one up now for $127.

                OR I might put it on right away when I get my head back  :)  rather than play with the BS-29 jets all over again & THEN go through it again with the TM.

                Can anyone give me a source & part # for the throttle cable I'll need for an '08 AVL with stock bars & levers?
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D the D

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2013, 05:29:11 PM »
A proper Mikuni 30-34 mm flange is about $25.  I think this model, M-VM34-200K, should do it.  http://www.nichecycle.com/ncs/index.php/frontpage-slider/carb-flange-carburetor-flange-adapters-rubber-by-mikuni.html

Right part for the job means less problems later (nasty lean condition), and more consistent performance.

On my Iron Barrel I had to grind the top of the flange flat to clear the headbrace mount.  The flange is rubber over an aluminum (aluminium) core and a grinder or cutoff wheel works fine for this.  I don't know about he AVL head though.
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tooseevee

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2013, 06:05:42 PM »
You need the Sudco rubber manifold that fits the 32-34mm carbs, and has the right spacing for the studs. The rubber manifold that NField Gear uses for their 34mm carb kit will work.

You can use a K&N pod filter, or an Ace Air Canister will fit on there too.
You can probably guess which one I think you should use.

            TM is flat slide, VM is round slide; Is that right?
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D the D

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2013, 06:10:22 PM »
            TM is flat slide, VM is round slide; Is that right?

Yes.
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DanB

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2013, 07:30:45 PM »
@Tooseevee:  Since you're sending the head to Ace, you may want to consider Ace's 32mm intake, also made at Mondello's I believe.  He can have it matched to your head!  Just an idea. 
Throttle Cable: I ordered an iron barrel cable from India.  I believe this will work, as it has the correct nipple on it for the TM32. Still waiting and havent checked the length.  I have an Electra and not the Classic (don't think that should make a huge difference as the PWK 30 uses the same IB cable), and I also changed the bars to drag bars.  I dont think I'll have a problem, but will know soon enough. Backup plan is to either order a long IB cable or just make one to fit. 

@ D the D:  Hmmm, you may be correct that the stock Mikuni flange may need to be cut down a bit to clear the AVL head steady.  Should be a fairly easy mod if needed.

@motoguzzibill:  Jetting is dependent on your conditions & setup.  I'm in Illinois; +100 sea level, its COLD at the moment and I have a 'mostly' open air intake and exhaust.  So for my initial setup I've elected the following:

Pilot - 30
Main - 200 (I have a selection: 185-200, in steps of 5)
Needle - Stock
Needle jet - P6 (Q2 is stock or as supplied)
Air Jet - Stock
Slide - Stock

More experienced setups are in this thread: http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,16053.0.html
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ace.cafe

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2013, 08:22:17 PM »
If you are ordering from Sudco anyway, then get their Motion Pro cable, called "Enfield Throttle Cable" Part number 021-947.
Great throttle cable, and worth the money.
We use them on all the Fireballs with the TM32.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head Conversion. Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available anywhere.  AVL mods available. UCE kit coming.

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DanB

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2013, 09:46:17 PM »
Thanks for the p/n Ace!
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tooseevee

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2013, 02:29:12 AM »
Thanks for the p/n Ace!

             Ditto   :)

              Looks like I'm on some kind of path, doesn't it? 
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tooseevee

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2013, 03:24:16 PM »
             Ditto   :)

              Looks like I'm on some kind of path, doesn't it?

              I finally found Throttle Cable 021-947 for the TM-32 on a RE on the Sudco Price List. It's $22.00, Item #4,223 in a cast of millions, I guess.

              The website doesn't seem to work like most I'm used to. Most links produce a Not Found 404 when clicked on  & the online catalog is impossible to read (the text is microscopic). And there's no Search window. And there doesn't seem to be any way to order anything. Is it me? Do you have to order through a dealer?  That would make the cable what? $50.00?
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DanB

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2013, 05:26:26 PM »
              I finally found Throttle Cable 021-947 for the TM-32 on a RE on the Sudco Price List. It's $22.00, Item #4,223 in a cast of millions, I guess.

              The website doesn't seem to work like most I'm used to. Most links produce a Not Found 404 when clicked on  & the online catalog is impossible to read (the text is microscopic). And there's no Search window. And there doesn't seem to be any way to order anything. Is it me? Do you have to order through a dealer?  That would make the cable what? $50.00?

I'm not sure.  I've asked the question to Sudco directly today.  If you'd like 2CV, i can order a couple of cables (if it's possible) and then you & I can work it out later.  PM me if interested.

Soon as I hear from them, I'll share what I find.

Dan
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ace.cafe

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2013, 06:01:56 PM »
In the past, I have just called them and gave them part numbers, and they shipped them to me.
Try calling.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 06:27:34 PM by ace.cafe »
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tooseevee

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2013, 07:28:12 PM »
In the past, I have just called them and gave them part numbers, and they shipped them to me.
Try calling.

           Thanks,, Ace & DanB

           That's what I'll do when I've thoroughly convinced myself that ordering the TM is the path I want to be on.

            Why can't I just be happy with the CV? The bike runs perfectly fine, perfectly being relative, with it.

             
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DanB

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2013, 09:01:39 PM »
Quote
Why can't I just be happy with the CV? The bike runs perfectly fine, perfectly being relative, with it.
 

For the same reason you have the smaller battery, missing side covers, no catch can, opened the exhaust/intake --> You can't stop tinkering!! ... just like me  :o

Talked to Sudco... just call them and they will handle for you. Or you can use a local dealer to do on your behalf. 
Suppose I were an idiot, and suppose I were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. ... Mark Twain
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Adrian

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2013, 10:55:39 AM »
Dan's absolutely right!

Meanwhile, I have a slightly more random approach to throttle cables. I just bought a stock classic iron engine Bullet item. I then fitted a 90 degree bend ferrule to the carb top so as to direct it away from the underside of the gas tank, and simply trimmed the now over-length outer cable to suit. This was on a Dell'Orto PHF but ought to work on the TM32 Mikuni, especially as this is quite a tall carb, and room under the tank is limited.

Regards,

Adrian

D the D

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2013, 05:11:02 PM »
I just used the standard Iron Barrel throttle cable.  I don't see why the need for something else.
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motoguzzibill

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2013, 04:35:41 AM »
The TM-32 I ordered from Amazon arrived and I thought I'd let others know that it is shipped with a 250 main, 45 pilot and a Q2 needle jet. It will be another $25 worth of jets, more if I order a few extra sizes, a cable if I can't piece one together $22, then an air filter. I may try to find a 58mm id hose that I can be used to connect the carb to the airbox.

No rush as there is a few inches of snow in my yard and the temperature just barely broke 30F.
Bill N.

ace.cafe

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2013, 08:34:25 AM »
The TM-32 I ordered from Amazon arrived and I thought I'd let others know that it is shipped with a 250 main, 45 pilot and a Q2 needle jet. It will be another $25 worth of jets, more if I order a few extra sizes, a cable if I can't piece one together $22, then an air filter. I may try to find a 58mm id hose that I can be used to connect the carb to the airbox.

No rush as there is a few inches of snow in my yard and the temperature just barely broke 30F.
Bill N.
Yes, all the TM32 carbs come jetted like that. They always need a complete set of different jets for our application.
I think the usual application is for some motocross bike.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head Conversion. Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available anywhere.  AVL mods available. UCE kit coming.

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tooseevee

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2014, 03:29:44 PM »
I just used the standard Iron Barrel throttle cable.  I don't see why the need for something else.

             Because the ball end for the stock BS-29 on an AVL will not FIT the the slide lifter holder on a TM 32. You can't use the stock cable when going to a TM 32.
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tooseevee

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2014, 03:41:52 PM »
 

For the same reason you have the smaller battery, missing side covers, no catch can, opened the exhaust/intake --> You can't stop tinkering!! ... just like me  :o

Talked to Sudco... just call them and they will handle for you. Or you can use a local dealer to do on your behalf.

          I called Sudco yesterday to order a throttle cable, a 90 degree fitting for the top & a bunch of jets. They will not deal with me as a private citizen so I ordered my bunch of jets from JetRUs. Now I'm on my way to the jap bike store to have my old friend the parts guy order the cable & adjuster for me.

       Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to modify
motorcycles  :)
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Adrian

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2014, 10:31:39 PM »
As for TM32 jets and settings, Bedlam's Electra-X ran very happily with those used on the C.I. engined Fireball! I'm sure they're still on Ace's web site somewhere...  ;)

A.

DanB

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2014, 03:49:54 AM »
Thought I would reuse this thread rather than creating a new one.  I need some help with tuning the TM32. 

Quick overview of my setup: 
  • Short bottle exhaust, with hotpipe removed and reduced steel header ring.
  • K&N filter in stock airbox, with lots of extra openings ::)
  • S-Cams
  • Ace's alloy intake

My initial starting point was:
Pilot - 30
Main - 200 (I have a selection: 185-200, in steps of 5)
Needle - Stock, 5FP17
Needle jet - P6 (Q2 is stock or as supplied)
Air Jet - Stock 2.5
Slide - Stock, 4.0

Now at:
Pilot - 25
Main - 190
Needle - Stock, middle clip, 5FP17
Needle jet - P4
Air Jet - Stock, 2.5
Slide - Stock, 4.0

See next post
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2006 AVL Electra

DanB

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2014, 03:53:34 AM »
...
My issues: 
1.  The pilot and cold starting.  I've been completely unable to use the choke at all.  The 30 pilot fouled the plug very fast.  Dropped to a 27.5;  still acted too rich. Now at a 25, about 2 turns out.  Once the engine is warm, its smooth as anything at an idle.  Cold starts have been a challenge.  She'll catch if i ever so lightly hold the throttle; like just taking the play out of the cable.  Anything more and she coughs badly!  It'll idle at about 700 rpm, with my air screw and idle screw set warm.  Trying to roll on the idle sometimes results with the engine stumbling & spitting back into the carb.  Again, once warm, no worries.  I tried a 20 pilot, just for giggles... didnt really notice anything different. So my starting procedure has become: Give idle screw a 1/4 turn in, a couple of kick thrus, hold throttle gently, kick it, and give it a bit of quick revs until the engine holds... slow to warm up, once warm drop the idle screw back to 1000; wondering if changing the air jet or slide would make a difference.  Any ideas or suggestions?

Plug at idle (from cold start):


Plug chops at 1/4 and 1/2 throttle have about the same results to the plug:

Disregard the brown spots... some type of weird flash effect

It looks to me to be lean.  But no pinging, no flat spots and she really does perform well.  With the s-cams, my mids are so much stronger!  Between 30 and 70 mph is just a joy!  When I ran with the P6, i noticed a number of flat spots.  The P4 smoothed those out, but i think i need to raise the needle a clip or two; but raising the needle really wouldnt have that much of an impact at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle, right?  Again, suggestions most welcomed!

3/4 to WOT: She flattens out between 75 and 85.  The RPMs in 5th are between 4000 and 4800.  I'm going to try a 195 in there, but i havent done a chop yet at WOT.  Just need to find a good stretch of road for about 2 minutes with no police.

How lean can an AVL-leanburn be happy with?
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ace.cafe

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2014, 10:05:55 AM »
You can go as far as 3 turns out on the air bleed screw, according to Mikuni. So you can get an indicator from that. If it  gets better all the way to 3 turns out, then you might try the next leaner pilot jet.
You already have the leanest throttle slide.
The needle jet and needle have about equal effect at half throttle, so changes on the needle should be noticed there.
Raising the needle makes it richer. Putting the clip in a higher groove lowers the needle and makes it leaner.
Did you put the silicone sealer on the manifold/head joint instead of a gasket?

The plugs look rich compared to other AVL plug chop photos that I have seen.
The choke is "on" with the plunger knob pulled up. It is somtimes stiff, and difficult to push it all the way down to the "off" postion.

Did you need to retard your  S Cams intake cam by a tooth to avoid contact with the piston, or not?
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head Conversion. Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available anywhere.  AVL mods available. UCE kit coming.

Please visit my new website:
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DanB

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2014, 05:12:31 PM »
Thanks Ace.

Quote
Did you need to retard your  S Cams intake cam by a tooth to avoid contact with the piston, or not?

No, I did not need to retard. They are 'on the dots'. Although, it is acting like it has been retarded. 

Quote
Did you put the silicone sealer on the manifold/head joint instead of a gasket?

No gasket; just sealer on the joint.  No leaks at all.

The choke is certainly down all the way, but I assumed that the new carb was internally clean.  I never thought to check it out.  Maybe there is a blockage somewhere.  Thinking I probably should check the passages and disassemble the choke.  The plunger button is down all the way, and it shows a bit of 'rod'.  Hard to describe what I'm thinking in my head; i need a photo.

Can you help me with the reading of plugs?  You say the chops look richer than other AVLs.  Can you tell me what you're looking at? Here's the plug...


1.  Ground strap shows the heat index / timing of the engine.  My heat band comes up onto the strap onto the flat of the strap... it's not on the apex.  I think its ok, but it may be a little 'cold' (photo is crappy)
2.  The fuel ring.  Too dark and sooty?
3.  When I look inside the plug on the metal screw shell wall, i see the same darker deposits.  Am I looking for a lighter tan  /brown here?
4.  The porcelain is mostly clear.  I think i can make out a brown band towards the middle of the insulator.  It doesnt go all the way around. 

Should I be looking at the threads as well on the plug?  Like 2 to 3 threads discolored?

Trying to decide my next move; Here's what Im thinking in order of sequence (please let me know if I'm way wrong here):

1st. Lean out the pilot circuit - try 22.5 if the 25 taps out at 3 turns.
2nd. Move clip one leaner (drop it), and see what I get.   
3rd. P2 Needle

Regardless - need my 3/4 & WOT reading.

I use this site as a reference; I know its for cars, but it helps me to visualize what i should be looking at... http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=3063102

Thanks Tom, as always!!!! ;D
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 02:52:05 AM by DanB »
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2014, 05:33:27 PM »
I think the ignition timing looks a little too retarded to me. If you can advance it a little, it might do better at higher rpms.

I think your plan for the pilot jet sounds good to me.
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2014, 08:11:17 PM »
Thanks again Tom.

Can I ask, what are you looking at that makes you suspect retarded timing? 
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2014, 08:45:51 PM »
Hi Dan,
 Looking at your pictures of the plug chops, I would say your idling colours are what you want to see for larger and full throttle readings. The plug picture you show for larger throttle openings looks way too weak for my liking - better to go too rich to begin with and work down from it gradually, to be safe. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about Mikuni carbs to advise jet sizes, but I had the 36mm Amal MK II running on a 280 main jet for my tune up, if anyone can translate that into Mikuni speak.
 B.W.

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2014, 10:30:22 PM »

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2014, 04:23:05 PM »
Thanks Adrian and BW.  I need to think about the next steps.  I think Im close as the bike just runs soooo nice (except for the cold start issue).

Adrian, that reference document between Amal and Mikuni really doesnt work.  The cross reference for a 280 mains Amal mapped out to a 150 Mikuni mains... Unless im ready the table wrong.  That would be way to lean. 

I'm thinking next...

1.  play with Pilot (air screw and 22.5)
2.  I'm going to put a 200 main on.  See what that does at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle.
3.  Adjust the needle.

Then reevaluate. 

Mikuni Question:  How the hell do people wrestle with that damn spring??  God its a nightmare.

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2014, 06:03:43 PM »
One thing I would comment on is that the idle should be at about 1000 rpm. Trying to get a very low idle speed is often a cause of stumbling type issues, and it is not recommended, nor IMO is it desireable.
So, I personally would recommend avoiding that 700 rpm stuff, and concentrate on the running performance.
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2014, 02:09:29 AM »
Agreed.  the 700 is what it cold starts at, and coughs if i try to give it more, unless i twist the idle screw.  1 or 2 minutes in and I can apply the throttle, and the idle picks up from there and will settle into a higher rpm idle (I should have clarified that... the 700 rpm tick over is scarring me and my sprag!).  She chokes on any throttle when cold...  The bike actually likes about 1100 at warm idle.  I have a small digi tach that 'sort of' tells me what its doing.

I interpret that as a) the pilot is rich; b) when cold, its HATES the idle to 1/8 throttle transition as its too rich for it.  I think you're right Ace; the bike's timing needs a bit of advance... not sure how or why it is this way (I noticed a similar prob last year but not as pronounced).  Also not sure how to advance it unless i do the woodruff key thing. ALternatively, I may try a performance elec. ignition box to go with the cams :)
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2014, 03:01:16 AM »
On the Iron Barrel models, it usually will need the choke for any cold start, and will need at least a couple or three minutes of warm up before it will ride off cleanly. We always set the carb when hot, so it will remain stable at operating temps, and deal with the cold nature on cold starts. We can never ride off cleanly when cold

They might work a little differently due to different thermal character of that engine.
But  I have not seen any real difficulties with the TM32 on the AVL so far. The need for such a lean pilot jet at your elevation is unusual, and I don't know if the cams would affect it that way or not.
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2014, 02:31:39 AM »
It is interesting and wish I knew more about what's happening in there. I'm thinking it's not right. If I can't get the pilot set, I've decided to question my assumptions: 1) the carb passages are clear. 2) I did indeed put the cams on the dots (although I have a photo I took that I swear was right). 3). Check out the primary side sensor and make sure it's in place.

Would a retarded timing impact the cold start in such a way? The Harris Scrambler was also retarded 1 tooth I believe.... Did see anything like my situ.
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2014, 08:43:03 AM »


Would a retarded timing impact the cold start in such a way? The Harris Scrambler was also retarded 1 tooth I believe.... Did see anything like my situ.
Hi Dan,
 No, The original testbed machine had 32mm Amal MK I, followed by Amal 34mm MK II and finally Amal 36mm MK II [which gave the best power right through the rev range, incidentally] ran all sorts of cams and timings, finishing up with the 'S' cams timed 'on the dots' and it started and idled well in all cases. 'Asbo' 11, an Electra X with Dellorto 32 mm carb has 'S' cams fitted, with the inlet retarded by 1 tooth and also starts and runs fine. Both these machines were running the upgraded CDI [TCI] box, which later became available from Hitchcocks.
 I think your carburettor settings may need some fine tuning  ;)
 B.W.

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2014, 01:59:53 PM »
Thanks again Paul.  Very good information... Reminds me to not over think / over engineer and focus - think basics.
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2014, 02:12:07 PM »
Thanks again Paul.  Very good information... Reminds me to not over think / over engineer and focus - think basics.

 To set idle on a carb, I warm it up at around 1000 rpm, and then use the air bleed screw to find the fastest idle that I can find by turning in both directions, Then, since that usuallly will increase the idle speed, I bring the idle speed back down to around 1000 with the idle speed screw.
That usually does the trick.
Sometimes, if it coughs off idle a ilttle after that, I will give the air bleed screw another 1/8 turn in to richen it just a tad.
Then when it is cold starting, it would normally need the choke knob pulled up. But on warm starts, it wouldn't.

It should always get a 2-3 minute warm up before riding off, and that should be normal practice, not just for carburetion, but for getting the oil warmed-up, and bringing all the metal parts at least partially up to operating temperature before giving it any significant throttle. If it's not warm enough after 3 minutes, then give it 4 or 5 minutes to warm up. That AVL head has a lot of alloy metal in it, and it takes some time to warm that up.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 02:16:26 PM by ace.cafe »
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2014, 12:50:56 AM »
A quick update:

Took carb off and cleaned out the passages.
Pilot - 25, 1 turn out
Needle jet- P6 currently
Stock needle, 1 clip richer off middle
Mains - 195

Mid range from 1/2 to 3/4 is nice! Very nice exhaust note, maybe a tad lean. 
Wot - tried a 200... It choked. 195 at the moment. May go back to 190, but wanted to start richer.
0 to 1/4, 1/2 - this area has been tricky and it's where I ride the most. My P4 acted like it ran out of fuel around 4100 rpm.  I've got the P6 in now but have not go out on it yet due to storms in the area.

Had to relearn my starting technique. A sort of kick followed by a small throttle roll. 1 kick starts now. She needs about 4 minutes to warm up and still doesn't like any choke (mid to upper 70s the last few days).

Think I'm getting there!  Wish I had a dyno around me.
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2014, 02:40:26 AM »
You can get a needle shim from Sudco or a Mikuni dealer, which allows you to raise the needle the distance of half a groove. Sometimes this can help to find the sweet spot in difficult applications.
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2014, 12:10:53 PM »
If you are ordering from Sudco anyway, then get their Motion Pro cable, called "Enfield Throttle Cable" Part number 021-947.
Great throttle cable, and worth the money.
We use them on all the Fireballs with the TM32.

            I'll be calling my local bike shop (30 mile round trip) again today to see if SUDCO 021-947 (Motion Pro) is in yet. It's been on order all winter.

             If NField Gear sells kits with Mikuni TM 32s & 34s, why don't they have any throttle cables?

             Does anyone know a Motion Pro PART number for the throttle cable that SUDCO sells as 021-947?

              I've been through cable nightmares before with others (throttle AND clutch & brake) & it looks like THIS project's cable is going to be another one.

              My big hope today is that the guy I talk to at Motion Pro can immediately relate the SUDCO number to his Motion Pro number. This is what I should have done from the beginning, but I was too focused on SUDCO.   
 
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 12:16:01 PM by tooseevee »
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2014, 10:29:26 PM »
            I'll be calling my local bike shop (30 mile round trip) again today to see if SUDCO 021-947 (Motion Pro) is in yet. It's been on order all winter.

             If NField Gear sells kits with Mikuni TM 32s & 34s, why don't they have any throttle cables?

             Does anyone know a Motion Pro PART number for the throttle cable that SUDCO sells as 021-947?

              I've been through cable nightmares before with others (throttle AND clutch & brake) & it looks like THIS project's cable is going to be another one.

              My big hope today is that the guy I talk to at Motion Pro can immediately relate the SUDCO number to his Motion Pro number. This is what I should have done from the beginning, but I was too focused on SUDCO.   
 

I had the same issue. I had the wrong cable sent to me by SUDCO's. They took it back. I did the next best thing: a stock RE clutch throttle cable from CMW. It works just fine.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 12:28:33 AM by 1 Thump »
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2014, 12:11:41 AM »
I had the same issue. I had the wrong cable sent to me by SUDCO's. They took it back. I did the next best thing: a stock RE clutch cable from CMW. It works just fine.

            I don't NEED a clutch cable. I need a throttle cable with a stock RE (AVL) throttle end & a Mikuni TM-32 carburetor end. The TM-32 is totally different in every way from the stock Mikuni BS-29 & the stock cable housing, adjusters & carb entry are different.
 
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2014, 12:30:51 AM »
            I don't NEED a clutch cable. I need a throttle cable with a stock RE (AVL) throttle end & a Mikuni TM-32 carburetor end. The TM-32 is totally different in every way from the stock Mikuni BS-29 & the stock cable housing, adjusters & carb entry are different.
 

My bad. I meant stock iron barrel throttle cable.

Is something wrong with your stock AVL throttle cable .......or does it look like it wont work?
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2014, 03:03:32 AM »
Another update... went out on the P6.  1/8 to 1/4 and then to 1/2 is much better; no loss of acceleration. 

But... i rolled on to 3/4 to 7/8, then rolled off... BANG.  God almightly backfire thru the exhaust. (Scared the sh*t out of soccer mom SUV... they rolled up all the windows  :o) There are no intake leaks or exhaust leaks.  Do I interpret this as slightly lean at that throttle?  My plugs are showing a nicer grayish color at 1/4 to 1/2 on the insulator; The ring indicating fuel mixture is slightly too sooty... which i think is a pilot still too rich.
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2014, 02:03:54 PM »
My bad. I meant stock iron barrel throttle cable.

Is something wrong with your stock AVL throttle cable .......or does it look like it wont work?

             Maybe I should have thought of that months ago when I ordered the correct cable for an RE throttle to a TM-32 Mikuni, but I didn't think of that because I don't have a stock iron barrel.

              My stock AVL cable will no way modify to operate a TM-32. The TM is a 100 & 80 degrees different than the stock BS-29 on the AVL in a multitude of ways & so is the cable. I can list all the various differences in the carbs & the cable, but I won't unless forced.

              I'm going to get the SUDCO/MotionPro cable (021-947) that I started trying to get months ago or die trying. Or fly to Compton &offer to blow somebody & that would be a cosmically dangerous thing to do   ;) ;)

              What bothers me the most is that I think the shop I ordered it through is lying to me. And I bought my first bike in RI from his grandfather in 1959. It's a Brave New World here in the Animal Farm down the road a piece from Walden II   :o
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2014, 02:48:40 PM »
Quote
Or fly to Compton &offer to blow somebody & that would be a cosmically dangerous thing to do

Bwahhahahahaha!
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2014, 03:19:49 PM »
Bwahhahahahaha!

     Thank you for recognizing the humor in my madness ;) :)
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2014, 11:55:42 PM »
Another update... went out on the P6.  1/8 to 1/4 and then to 1/2 is much better; no loss of acceleration. 

But... i rolled on to 3/4 to 7/8, then rolled off... BANG.  God almightly backfire thru the exhaust. (Scared the sh*t out of soccer mom SUV... they rolled up all the windows  :o) There are no intake leaks or exhaust leaks.  Do I interpret this as slightly lean at that throttle?  My plugs are showing a nicer grayish color at 1/4 to 1/2 on the insulator; The ring indicating fuel mixture is slightly too sooty... which i think is a pilot still too rich.

I would interpret it as lean at the throttle setting that you rolled off to.
If you closed the throttle, it would be the pilot circuit.
However it is not too unusual to get at least a pop if you close the throttle from near WFO.
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #56 on: May 29, 2014, 01:17:20 AM »
It sounds like the current setting is close to what I have on my twin, which is lean in the idle/pilot circuit and a bit rich in the main jet.  I have great throttle response everywhere and get a lot of talk out of my cocktail shaker, and an occasional loud pop.  But if your bike popped really loud, then as Ace said, your are still too lean on the pilot jet.  One more size up and you should be good to go on another plug chop run.  You're getting very close.  :)

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2014, 12:59:04 AM »
Question for TM 32 'practitioners'

How much do the needle jet and needle overlap between 1/4 and 1/2? 

I've seen the VM curves and get that the carb is mostly on the jet at 1/4 and then transitions onto the needle (so to speak) more towards 1/2. Are the VM and TM about the same? 

Why I ask....  So I thought I was too lean between 1/4-1/2, so I move the clip one richer. Still didn't like the performance, so I shimmed it. Result? Sotty sotty plug. Black. Also noticed lots of hesitation and began to identify this as a rich surge. Ok, I read the bike wrong. Put clip on the 2nd leanest with a shim, and no rich surging... So, basically I'm nearly back where I started, except .5 clip leaner.  P6, needle shimmed at 2nd from the top, 190 mains.

So, if I change to a p4 needle jet, how much impact does that have at 1/8-1/4-1/2 if I leave the clip where it is now?

Thank you for any and all insight.
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #58 on: June 09, 2014, 02:32:48 AM »
1/4 to 1/3 is mostly jet
1/3 to 2/3 is about even, jet + needle
2/3 - 3/4 is mostly needle
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #59 on: June 09, 2014, 12:30:15 PM »
Question for TM 32 'practitioners'

How much do the needle jet and needle overlap between 1/4 and 1/2? 

I've seen the VM curves and get that the carb is mostly on the jet at 1/4 and then transitions onto the needle (so to speak) more towards 1/2. Are the VM and TM about the same? 

Why I ask....  So I thought I was too lean between 1/4-1/2, so I move the clip one richer. Still didn't like the performance, so I shimmed it. Result? Sotty sotty plug. Black. Also noticed lots of hesitation and began to identify this as a rich surge. Ok, I read the bike wrong. Put clip on the 2nd leanest with a shim, and no rich surging... So, basically I'm nearly back where I started, except .5 clip leaner.  P6, needle shimmed at 2nd from the top, 190 mains.

So, if I change to a p4 needle jet, how much impact does that have at 1/8-1/4-1/2 if I leave the clip where it is now?

Thank you for any and all insight.

             Dan,

                    Have you gotten better at dealing with needle changes with the TM-32? Do you have any hints for me when I get to that point? Do you do it on the engine with the tank removed? I'm thinking it's easier to remove the carb to make needle changes. No?

                    A few days ago I decided this is the day I do the cable (with the carb NOT attached to the engine) & it is a tricky bastard even though I did it twice on the bench already for practice. I had already run the new cable through the nacelle leaving the throttle end loose & I managed to get it finally after trying various methods to hold that bloody spring. It went well from there on & the throttle end is very simple to hook up with the cable attached to the carb. All I did was shim the slide open an inch with a small piece of plastic to gain that little bit of extra length.

                My next milestone will be getting the radiator hoses all fit up & angled properly to attach the carb to the engine & then the canister to the carb. Yard work & other "house duties" (groceries, other social bullshit, etc.) are taking time now also. Then I want to rig a remote hanging fuel supply so I can get it running first without the gas tank installed.

                 Sometimes I wish I could paint my yard green. The whole thing  :) ;)   And mainline Novacaine to my shoulders, neck & hands. Today my goals are to finish mowing the back yard, attach the carb to the engine & fit the Ace canister up.   
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 12:32:17 PM by tooseevee »
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #60 on: June 09, 2014, 04:13:17 PM »
I think my next project will have another Dell'Orto!  ;D

Tip re. the yard, dig out all the grass, put down a permeable membrane with stone chippings on top and maybe just a few drought-resistant plants inserted, so it only needs an occasional tidying instead of cutting . Better still get someone else to do it. That worked for me when my wife's cancer came back, and we decided my time would be better spent looking after her than gardening.

I hope the prospect of riding the fastest AVL 500 on your side of the Pond eases your pain.

Regards,

A.



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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #61 on: June 09, 2014, 07:23:38 PM »
1/4 to 1/3 is mostly jet
1/3 to 2/3 is about even, jet + needle
2/3 - 3/4 is mostly needle

Thanks Ace.  So, if im getting this, switching to one jet leaner would require the needle to move a bit richer for good 1/3 to 2/3 performance.  Outside temps may also impact this as well (summer v winter for example).  Am I correct, generally?

Quote
Have you gotten better at dealing with needle changes with the TM-32? Do you have any hints for me when I get to that point? Do you do it on the engine with the tank removed? I'm thinking it's easier to remove the carb to make needle changes. No?

Hey 2CV.  I like your new title 'North America's Fastest AVL'!  ;D
So far, I just pull the tank to get to the carb on the engine.  For change needle settings, I just rotate the carb slightly to the timing chest side of the bike, and pull the cable / slide assembly off the top.  The i compress the spring and release the cable; the slide just comes off and the spring releases itself!  It's easy to get off;  To get it back on, you need to compress the spring with all the fixings in place on the cable plate, and re-attach to the slide.  Once the cable is on the slide, it's easy.  It's just the spring that is a b*tch (I gave up on the zip ties - more trouble that its worth!).  I do the same to change the needle jet, except I pull the bowl and main jet, and then lift it out the top; no need to mess with the spring...

I've gotten quick at it.  Yesterday I changed twice; gotten down to about 20 minutes, with minimal swearing.  But there is a learning curve! 
 
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2014, 07:31:32 PM »
Thanks Ace.  So, if im getting this, switching to one jet leaner would require the needle to move a bit richer for good 1/3 to 2/3 performance.  Outside temps may also impact this as well (summer v winter for example).  Am I correct, generally?


It might turn out that way. I would try the leaner needle jet, and see what happens. If you then need to move the needle, then do some of that.
It will require leaner as the temps get hotter, richer as they get cooler.

I really don't understand why your bike is so difficult to dial in. That is not typical, but I have very little AVL experience with it. Other AVL owners seem to have had easier times with it, from previous reports.
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #63 on: June 09, 2014, 09:53:10 PM »
DanB - Are you absolutely 100% positive you have your timing dialed in correctly?   ???
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2014, 10:13:27 PM »
Ignition timing is (usually!) fixed on the AVL models.

A.

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #65 on: June 10, 2014, 12:32:41 AM »
hi guys any help would be great to jet a tm32. I have a 2008 electra with k&n filter and royal enfield classic exhaust system and alloy manifold from Ace.
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2014, 12:35:26 AM »
By the way I'm in DC so not much above sea level
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #67 on: June 10, 2014, 01:56:46 AM »
DanB - Are you absolutely 100% positive you have your timing dialed in correctly?   ???

Well....  No I'm not confident, but as Adrian said these are for the most part fixed. I haven't timed it nor messed with the woodruff key.

I think the dialing part is a lot of human error honestly. I tend to over think.  But I'm very close. Took it up to 80 yesterday and the plug showed I'm ok and the bike felt right. And it did so with relative easy. At 70 it just purrs nicely. When I commute I'm generally at 1/8 to 1/2. This has been tricky for me. Between over thinking and then reading the bike wrong.... Just trying to understand and learn!

Fuel consumption is not great due to the endless need to 'twist throttle more than is really needed' 8)
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #68 on: June 10, 2014, 03:35:39 AM »
hi guys any help would be great to jet a tm32. I have a 2008 electra with k&n filter and royal enfield classic exhaust system and alloy manifold from Ace.

If you read thru this thread you'll see where I started and where im at now.  Have you removed the hot tube from the exhaust?  I'm similar to your setup, with the hot tube removed and the air box opened up.  I am using the S cams; not sure how they impact the jetting overall from stock.
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #69 on: June 11, 2014, 03:28:15 AM »
yes I saw you were using the S cams,I would think they make quite a difference but it is a starting point.
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #70 on: June 11, 2014, 03:35:54 AM »
yes I saw you were using the S cams,I would think they make quite a difference but it is a starting point.

Cams will not really affect the carb tuning too much in general.  All the cams do is allow more air/fuel in and out of the combustion chamber, the A/F ratio generally stays the same.
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #71 on: June 11, 2014, 06:17:37 AM »
If you read thru this thread you'll see where I started and where im at now.  Have you removed the hot tube from the exhaust?  I'm similar to your setup, with the hot tube removed and the air box opened up.  I am using the S cams; not sure how they impact the jetting overall from stock.

Hi Dan,
I am at 3000 ft above sea level and running the 'S' ( 'S' for 'Superman' cams cams  ;D)  with an open exhaust header ( without the hot tube & the narrow pipe at the exhaust mounting side). I am running the following for my TM-34:
1. Pilot 25 : 2 turns out
2. Needle Jet - P6
3. Main Jet - 190
4. Stock carb needle in the 2nd notch from the top.

The bike starts first kick in the morning even on cold days and pulls really well with an amazing exhaust note all the way up to 145 kmph. I can easily out accelerate the new new FI 500s. I maybe a little lean at WOT- still need to do some plug chops;haven't gone above this speed for want of better rubber than the stock ones which i am running (and there are always the speeding tickets which somehow find their way into my mailbox and despite my best efforts end up in my wife's hand  :-\)

Hope this is of help but I am using a 34mm and am at a different elevation than you. Temperatures range from 23 deg C - 33 Deg C here in Bangalore.

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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #72 on: June 11, 2014, 12:12:19 PM »
Thanks Tejk. My settings are nearly exactly the same except I have a shim on the clip at the 2nd notch at about 600 ft. The faster I go, then more I realize I need to work in suspension next  ;D
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Re: Mikuni TM-32 fittment
« Reply #73 on: June 12, 2014, 05:50:21 PM »

Hey 2CV.  I like your new title 'North America's Fastest AVL'!  ;D
So far, I just pull the tank to get to the carb on the engine.  For change needle settings, I just rotate the carb slightly to the timing chest side of the bike, and pull the cable / slide assembly off the top.  The i compress the spring and release the cable; the slide just comes off and the spring releases itself!  It's easy to get off;  To get it back on, you need to compress the spring with all the fixings in place on the cable plate, and re-attach to the slide.  Once the cable is on the slide, it's easy.  It's just the spring that is a b*tch (I gave up on the zip ties - more trouble that its worth!).  I do the same to change the needle jet, except I pull the bowl and main jet, and then lift it out the top; no need to mess with the spring...

I've gotten quick at it.  Yesterday I changed twice; gotten down to about 20 minutes, with minimal swearing.  But there is a learning curve! 
 

             Thanks for the hints. This is sorta how I was vizhalizing it. I've been inturrupted by a lot of crap lately plus a computer downage the day you wrote this plus the nesasesaticity of getting a new printer & the nightmare of convincing (F-ing) Windoze to allow me to load it & recognize it. Terminal, Killer neck aches.

     Anyway, the picture shows where I was at on the weekend sometime while I was attaching cable to carb & then cable to throttle grip. That went well other than that bloody spring is a royal (enfield) bastard.

      I'll post more on the other thread after I eat something & my neck lets me.
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