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Author Topic: EPA votes down E15  (Read 2048 times)

Ducati Scotty

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EPA votes down E15
« on: November 21, 2013, 11:53:18 PM »
I heard today that the EPA voted against raising the ethanol level to 15% (E15) and is staying with E10 for now in the US.

Scott

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Re: EPA votes down E15
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2013, 11:54:56 PM »
A small Yea.  It would be a larger YEA! if they removed the alcohol altogether.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: EPA votes down E15
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2013, 12:10:52 AM »
+1.  I appreciate the drive to limit or remove our dependence on foreign oil, but adding alcohol made from corn to our gas is not the way to do it.  Still, glad to hear it hasn't gotten worse, and there is a discussion going to remove it altogether.

Scott

ScooterBob

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Re: EPA votes down E15
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2013, 12:34:00 AM »
I'm fortunate to have access to non-oxygenated (no ethanol) fuels here. Alky is good motor fuel - and it can be made from any plant matter that will ferment, which a good thing ...... but a man needs a fuel system that won't rot to pieces when he uses the stuff ......  :(
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dginfw

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Re: EPA votes down E15
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2013, 04:08:10 AM »
Other than the corn farmers and the EPA, is there anybody that actually likes the stuff?
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Desi Bike

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Re: EPA votes down E15
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2013, 04:44:40 AM »
Not me.
There is an ethanol plant here in town, often the effluent from the stack can smell up the town with corn mash.

https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Chatham,+Chatham-Kent,+ON&hl=en&ll=42.383053,-82.217045&spn=0.007497,0.016243&sll=49.303974,-84.738437&sspn=13.562389,33.266602&oq=chatham&hnear=Chatham-Kent,+Chatham-Kent+Division,+Ontario&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=42.383178,-82.221314&panoid=b_E-kapDVJ_WI6zTfkofIQ&cbp=12,1.19,,0,-6.53

That stack is pumping the steamy goodness 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. My house is less than a mile from it. When the sky is overcast and close, the town gets blanketed in the smelly goodness.

Oh, and here's a better corn related thing that we have here in town from the seed corn industry that you may not have seen before. Those piles are corn cobs. This picture is a bit dated, now there are 4 piles the size of the one on the right. This comes from the seed corn facilities nearby. The cobs are ground up (piles on the left) by a log chipper type machine and used for bedding and fuel to heat in the hundreds of huge greenhouses in Kingsville / Leamington Ontario. The seed corn industry has been affected by the corn contracts to grow for the ethanol plant to some extent. Much more care has to go into growing pure seed corn strains, such as planned cross pollinating with different strains to make specific strains of seed corn. The job of corn de-tasseling is usually the young teenager`s first job in life around here. Its hot sweaty work for 14+ teens going down the corn rows clipping off the top of the corn row, the tassel, to control which corn plant pollinates with which strain of corn and which  is the pollinator and the pollinee by gender of the strain.  Its quite costly for a farmer to get the corn to harvest. The contracts to grow seed corn do pay well, but your growth and maintenance costs of the crop are high. The contract payout for the ethanol plant corn is not as high by far, but your investment per acre is substantially less.   

https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Chatham,+Chatham-Kent,+ON&hl=en&ll=42.36422,-82.239146&spn=0.015125,0.032487&sll=49.303974,-84.738437&sspn=13.562389,33.266602&oq=chatham&hnear=Chatham-Kent,+Chatham-Kent+Division,+Ontario&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=42.364159,-82.239219&panoid=A2zLIJVyPwXzKWDv3ry3-A&cbp=12,321.65,,1,3.09

Ok, that post was a bit off on a tangent....   sorry... its late o`clock and I`ll stop typing and go to bed.
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میں صرف اپنی موٹر سائیکل پر سوار کرنا چاہتے ہیں

gashousegorilla

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Re: EPA votes down E15
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2013, 05:18:53 AM »
  Some Dynamic Corn-presion here.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbVRW3qSXAo

 
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ScooterBob

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Re: EPA votes down E15
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2013, 11:37:23 AM »
Other than the corn farmers and the EPA, is there anybody that actually likes the stuff?

I do, dang UTT!! Yer supposed to make LIKKER from corn!!  ;)
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High On Octane

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Re: EPA votes down E15
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2013, 12:23:03 PM »
I don't know.  My friend tunes all of his performance cars to run on E85 and he produces some big numbers.  His '99 Impreza lays down 420 HP at the wheels running on corn, so.

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ScooterBob

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Re: EPA votes down E15
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2013, 02:25:05 PM »
I don't know.  My friend tunes all of his performance cars to run on E85 and he produces some big numbers.  His '99 Impreza lays down 420 HP at the wheels running on corn, so.

Scottie

Most of the "E85" that I've tested is barely 35% ethanol. That being said - alky is a good motor fuel for producing big horsepower. It isn't nearly as energy dense as petro-fuels - BUT - because it has such  HUGE charge cooling effect, is hard to ignite and is oxygen bearing, you can run compression ratios upward of 14:1 - or if you are boosting the engine - 30 pounds of boost! High compression ratios mean thermodynamic efficiency. This is why the diesel engine, with its 25:1 compression is such a fuel sipper and torque bastard all at the same time. The PROBLEM with ethanol is that it is hygroscopic and it's corrosive as all get out to aluminum and ferrous metals - not to mention it'll dissolve every kind of rubber known to man except nitrile rubber. You can make GOBS of power with alky ..... but you better have a copper fuel tank and a brass carburettor like a Model T Ford ...... 
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High On Octane

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Re: EPA votes down E15
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2013, 02:55:04 PM »
Yeah Alex is running 24 psi of boost.  He also has a laptop and wide o2 sensor.

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Ducati Scotty

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Re: EPA votes down E15
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2013, 03:07:30 PM »
I love ethyl alcohol!  But give it to me with a lime over ice. Or tuck it in a charred barrel for a few years first.  Since we use so much fossil fuel equipment in producing it from corn we are getting a minimal energy benefit. Find something else to make it from, a more efficient process, or pursue another alternative fuel.

Scott

GreenMachine

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Re: EPA votes down E15
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2013, 03:52:55 PM »
Gleaned this from Honda Brasil website...I was under the impression that everything was running sugar juice but in fact they still sell both gas and ethanol..You can buy a 1000 rr (gasolina) or this 150 cc flex burner...I found interesting the max power no...The torque no. give ethanol the edge (if i'm understanding it correctly)..On a final note, I notice at the gas pumps that ethanol prices are just about half of gasolina, which explains why most people purchase flex vehicles there...


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Length x width x height
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gashousegorilla

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Re: EPA votes down E15
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2013, 03:53:28 PM »
not to mention it'll dissolve every kind of rubber known to man except nitrile rubber.

   But, will it make it expand and contract ? ...Like in nitrile O rings  and float bowl gaskets.  Or is that some other additive in the "fuel".... Or Crap rubber ?  Just not right , to have to change out them O rings, on those cross over-tubes every couple years.  :-\   Your damned if you leave the fuel on, your damned if you don't....
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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: EPA votes down E15
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2013, 05:00:29 PM »
E-85 is generally about 10% cheaper here in the land of Corn and corn farmer welfare. When you think farmer though don't think of your great aunt and uncle Elmer and Mabel - think Cargill etc.

If you get about 30% less economy you do the math. I think grain based  ethanol is one if the greatest hoaxes ever pulled off on the public.