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Author Topic: timing '59 Enfield Indian  (Read 843 times)

skipsoldbikes

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timing '59 Enfield Indian
« on: November 22, 2013, 05:52:37 AM »
Hi all!
I rebuild Lucas & BTH magnetos with modern ceramic capacitors & just finished an SR2 for a customers '59 Enfield Indain. He has no service manuals for the bike, can anyone fill me in on the timing procedure? I assume lock the auto advance to full advance & bring the piston up to (1/2"????) before top dead center on compression stroke, then tighten the advance onto the mag? Not even sure how far BTC this motor should be. Any Help would be greatly appreciated & thanks in advance.

Skip Brolund
P.S. Lucas & BTH magneto questions answered for free :)

High On Octane

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2013, 12:17:07 PM »
Timing should be set to 3/8" BTDC with the auto advance in the natural full retard position.

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

Bullet Whisperer

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2013, 01:27:04 PM »
I don't want to start an argument here, Scottie, but I would say 3/8" BTDC would be a full advance figure for the ignition timing, otherwise it will be firing at about 3/4" BTDC on full advance if you set it retarded to 3/8" BTDC.
 B.W.

High On Octane

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2013, 04:13:04 PM »
How do you figure the auto advance will retard the timing an additional 3/8" by advancing the spark?  That's how my bike is timed and it runs great.

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

Bullet Whisperer

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2013, 06:22:04 PM »
How do you figure the auto advance will retard the timing an additional 3/8" by advancing the spark?  That's how my bike is timed and it runs great.

Scottie
3/8" BTDC is the position for firing with the ATU fully advanced. If you time your ignition 3/8" BTDC retarded, then when the weights open out, that will advance the timing more, to around 3/4" BTDC. If your engine is timed like that and runs great, it will run even greater timed properly, I guarantee it. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I will stand by what I said above.
 If you doubt me, I have timed all of these, below and they all run great, too. [links to some short videos below]
 B.W.

http://s956.photobucket.com/user/rossemma/media/BobMacRESuperMeteor.mp4.html

http://s956.photobucket.com/user/rossemma/media/RE500TwinRacer.flv.html

http://s956.photobucket.com/user/rossemma/media/RE700twinPT039.mp4.html
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 06:47:04 PM by Bullet Whisperer »

High On Octane

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2013, 06:56:42 PM »
Ok, I miss understood what you were saying at first.  And apparently I did the timing wrong as the manual I was originally going off of didn't say hardly anything about setting the timing with a K2F auto advance.  Just looked in my recently acquired Interceptor manual and you're right.  I did eventually get the timing set by feel, but it would have been nice to have this information in the spring.  Lol

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2013, 07:02:23 PM »
Thanks, Scottie  8), I wasn't 'having a pop' at you, by the way, but it's important to have [and give] the correct information, especially with things like timing.
 B.W.

barenekd

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2013, 07:02:56 PM »
Yup, 3/8" with the timing advanced.
Bare
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High On Octane

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2013, 08:40:50 PM »
Thanks, Scottie  8), I wasn't 'having a pop' at you, by the way, but it's important to have [and give] the correct information, especially with things like timing.
 B.W.

No harm no foul.  Actually thank you for correcting me because I hadn't realized I had the wrong information.  :)

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

D the D

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2013, 03:51:02 AM »
You guys are all so civil it chases the trolls away.  :)
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skipsoldbikes

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2013, 05:59:29 PM »
Thank you all! Seems most brit iron comes in from 3/8-1/2 BTDC w/full advance, but this info eliminates the trial & error  (hopefully!). I normally prefer to use a degree wheel, but on this RE Indian I am trying not to make a big project of putting the mag back on.

Thanks again !!!

skipsoldbikes

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2013, 02:18:56 PM »
Starting trouble  :-[. At first I turned the points cam the wrong way due to me being used to most other English bikes that the mag turns anticlockwise from the drive end (Royal Enfield & Vincent go clockwise from the drive end-anticlockwise from the points end).
I got that correct now (I think), now it will fire up after 3 kicks & run for 1 to 1 1/2 seconds & die. Plugs seem a little dry, so I will go through the carb this morning.

I also noticed when checking the rocker arms in determining TDC, that there is maybe .001 valve clearance (lash). Shouldnt that be more like .006-.008 ?
I am embarrased not having a manual for this bike (like I normally would), but its not my bike & I am just trying to help a guy out. I should also mention the bike has sat for 3 years, so I expect goo in the carb :(
Nowdays its almost not worth rebuilding Amals when the complete kit costs $50 with a new needle & main jet (plus labor), when you can buy a New one for $20, or a Wassell one for $130.

ERC

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2013, 05:26:30 PM »
The Indian trailblazer manual says .002" both. The British manual says nill for intake spin more for exhaust. 6 to 8 would be very noisy. This is for the 700cc twins.   ERC
« Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 02:51:41 AM by ERC »
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skipsoldbikes

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2013, 08:08:44 PM »
Ok, thanks. I am more accustom to working on Nortons & they spec more clearance. Seems the lash on this bike may be correct then.

Roger ONeill

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2014, 01:35:10 PM »
Does anyone know how many degrees before TDC 3/8"would be? I would rather use a degree wheel than a measuring stick in the plug hole.

Cheers,
Roger