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Author Topic: timing '59 Enfield Indian  (Read 727 times)

ERC

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2014, 04:09:03 PM »
About 34 degrees.   ERC
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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2014, 04:22:48 PM »
Perhaps this page can be of help to you.  The exhaust valve closes at 35* after TDC and the intake closes at 73* after BDC.  My guess is timing would be 35-38* before TDC.  But I honestly don't have a clue.  Ace should be able to figure out the degree with this info.  Hopefully he will chime in here.



Scottie J
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

ERC

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2014, 06:57:39 PM »
I thought he was talking about ignition timing not valve?    ERC
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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2014, 07:10:43 PM »
I thought he was talking about ignition timing not valve?    ERC

He is, but if you know what you're doing you can figure out the ignition timing based off of valve timing.  I personally don't know how, but I'm sure someone does.

Scottie J
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

ERC

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2014, 08:20:47 PM »
I'll let my son figure that one out he's a Mechanical Engineer and teaches Physics for a living. ERC
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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2014, 08:23:52 PM »
Alright, I think I got it, I found a calculator online for figuring this out.  I went out to the garage and measured a rod and it is exactly 6 1/8" which converts to 155.575 center to center, and I know the stroke is 90mm.  3/8" converted is 9.525mm, that subtracted from 90mm is 80.475mm.  For our crank and rod set up 80.475mm translates to 135.75*.

TaDah!!!

I think.....      ???

http://www.dansmc.com/mc_software2.htm



Scottie J
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

ERC

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2014, 10:14:02 PM »
That would give you piston travel but not the ignition advance degrees.   ERC
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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2014, 01:06:56 PM »
That would give you piston travel but not the ignition advance degrees.   ERC

I realize this shows piston travel.  But I thought piston travel/position WAS relevant to ignition timing?  The manual clearly states that the timing is to be set 3/8" BTDC at full advance.  I'm no rocket scientist, but that sure sounds like a measurement based off of piston travel to me.  As far as advancement, I think the Auto-Advance is good for 32*, not sure about the manual advance control, but I'm sure it's similar.

But if I am wrong, then riddle me this.  How exactly is one to set timing with a degree wheel on the crankshaft if the degree and location of the piston are irrelevant to the timing degree angle?   ???

Scottie J
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

ERC

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2014, 01:30:02 PM »
Have no idea how they figure it. Something to do with radian and pi formula to convert inches to degrees.    ERC
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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2014, 01:49:19 PM »
Right.  I thought that calculator I used did just that.  I found it when googling something like "how to convert inches to degrees for timing a bike" or "how to set timing with a degree wheel on a bike" or some damn thing, I don't remember exactly what I typed in.  Anyways, I came across a BSA forum where guys had been discussing this same topic and the one guy (that appeared to know what he was talking about) had posted the link for that calculator and claimed that this was how you could convert a vertical measurement into a degree measurement off of the crankshaft.  Granted I've never used a degree wheel to set timing, I believe what I posted is correct.  According to the hour or so of research I did yesterday anyways.

Scottie J
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

ERC

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2014, 04:20:23 PM »
Yea their is a formula, I just know when you put the wheel on my bike bring the piston down 3/8" it basically shows 34 degrees.  ERC
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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2014, 04:24:18 PM »
Fair enough.
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

ERC

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2014, 05:48:07 PM »
Here's a Vincent chart that shows what I found on my bike. If I can add the thing not good at this crap.  ERC
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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2014, 06:17:49 PM »
OK  I see on that Vincent chart they go from 0* at TDC.  So going off of that and my numbers with TDC at 0* that would put my numbers at 44* at full advance.  Which sounds closer than 135*, and being we don't know what the stroke and rod length for the Vincent, this could be correct.  I wish I was better with algebra.

Scottie J
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver, CO
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building the 1st EVER Supercharged RE Twin
FULL RACE motor with ACE Performance

Roger ONeill

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Re: timing '59 Enfield Indian
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2014, 06:42:56 PM »
Good Afternoon Gents,
Thank you very much for your insights regarding the timing wheel measurement. I think I can figure it out with all of this information. On most other British twins it is 32 -36 degrees before TDC so I suspect that the Meteor will be somewhere in this range. The idea of it firing around the 100 degree mark would cause it to fire near the bottom of the stroke which would afford no power when the piston reaches the top of the stroke.  I will have a chance to put all on your inmformation tothe test onTuesday. I will let you know how thingsgo. By the way here is a picture of the bike that you helped with in August of last year. We have decided that it is a 1956 Super MeteorSome of the tinware is not correct but we think it works.
Cheers,
Roger