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Author Topic: How to adjust timing?  (Read 1878 times)

316CMH

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How to adjust timing?
« on: November 25, 2013, 10:05:11 PM »
Can't seem to find anything on exactly how to do this.  I found a video on youtube but there's no sound.  I also looked here but can't find a step by step that's simple enough for me.

Thanks

ERC

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Re: How to adjust timing?
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2013, 10:50:39 PM »
On what motor?   ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

316CMH

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Re: How to adjust timing?
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2013, 10:54:33 PM »
500, It's an '04 Bullet Classic.  My first Royal, bought it for my son as a Christmas present/project bike. Just want it running when I give it to him.

ERC

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Re: How to adjust timing?
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2013, 10:56:29 PM »
I see from another thread what you have. Go to Hitchcocks.The site on the left will have tecnical notes click that and you'll see how to time your motor step by step. Real easy.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

316CMH

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Re: How to adjust timing?
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2013, 10:58:43 PM »
Thanks! I'll check it out.

coolgoose2

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Re: How to adjust timing?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2013, 12:31:35 PM »
Hi.

Here is how I do it..I am from Kerala, India and I ride a 2009 model 350 with CB ignition.

Tools for Ignition timing setting:

1. TDC tool from Nfield gear; you can do with a hollowed out spark plug(don't strip the thread) and a metal rod; however see to it that it does not fall into the cylinder(you can use an allen key)

2. a 12V lamp connected to crocodile clips. One end to the points nut and second to chassis(ground). This is to check the exact moment of parting of points. Point are connected to ''primary'' of the ignition coil and the temporary disconnection of the primary circuit will disrupt the magnetic field and thereby induce a potential difference in the ''secondary'' which is connected to spark plug. the wiring in the primary and secondary of the coil will determine the strength of the spark. Traditional mechanics use their eye to see the parting of points, but I feel that electrical separation of points occur before it could be detected by eye. Electrical separation can be established correctly by a electrical circuit with a lamp

3. no-8 tubular spanner; to loosen and tighten the nuts of the points back plate...

4. lens/torch to see whether there is any pitting of points. check when they are at max gap. I deliberately did not check the gap with the feeler gauge this time as I had done it last time (one week back)and found to be correct.

5.plug wrench/screw driver

 HOW: The theory on static timing adjustment dictate that spark should occur 0.8mm before top dead center (TDC) in compression stroke... So that is the aim of this experiment

1. put the bike in neutral gear and kick till compression prevents the piston from going down. the gently pull de-compression lever and push the kicker down by a couple of inches and watch for the ammeter to flick back to zero. Piston is reasonably near top dead center(TDC) in compression stroke.

2. Put the bike in fourth gear by pulling up the neutral lever and rotating the rear wheel at the same time. Now the piston movement can be effected via rotating the rear wheel.

3. Remove the spark plug and put in the TDC tool. You can also use a hollowed out plug with a metal rod in it; see to it that rod does not fall into the chamber(you can use an Allen key)

4. Open points cover and check the points gap with feeler gauge and set it at 0.35-0.4mm. Plastic visiting card is ~ 0.4 mm

5. connect the lighting set up. connect one clip to the points nut and other to chassis( I connected it to seat clamp). Do not let the clip connected to points nut to touch back-plate.

6.switch on ignition and see whether light is on( or whether points are open).. if so rotate the rear wheel in CLOCKWISE(viewed from spark-plug side of the bike) till lights go off( or points close) . rotate CLOCKWISE bit more.

7. rotate rear wheel slowly in the ANTICLOCKWISE direction looking at the TDC tool till the piston is at the top...rock back and forth till piston reaches top.note the reading of the gauge of TDC tool.. or in the case of using hollowed out plug and rod, the point where the rod protrudes maximum. make a mark with file and another mark about0.8mm above this mark.

8. again rotate rear wheel ANTI-CLOCKWISE and take it to a position where the reading is 0.8 mm above the TDC reading/mark(a bit less than one mm mark). If you had accidentally passed the mark, then do all the above process again. DO NOT ROTATE BACK. Rotate the wheel in one direction (ANTI-CLOCKWISE) otherwise Cam gear backlash will act and movement of piston and rear wheel will loose synchronization and will give false reading.(if it has passed the top mark, repeat from step-4 onwards)

9. at that position(0.8mm above TDC), loosen the lock nuts of points back-plate with 8no tubular spanner and adjust back-plate so that lights JUST turns on.

10. tighten back-plate and check again to check that ignition is correct.

VOILA.. done..This is my method for static timing adjustment. As I am doing only city riding currently, this is enough

ride safe

:) :) :)

GreenMachine

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Re: How to adjust timing?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2013, 04:00:29 PM »
Coolgoosse 2: Thanks for that clear explanation of setting up the 350/500cc bullet using points..The pics were a added plus...I'll print it out and staple it inside the back of my snidal manual...I was going to say, since you're at TDC, you might want to check your valves and adjust if necessary..Do you actually drink that "Old Monk Rum"?  I have once..GM
Oh Magoo you done it again

AgentX

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Re: How to adjust timing?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2013, 05:46:42 PM »
Old Monk is most useful as a cleaning solvent or incendiary.   :)

Setting the timing static to .8mm is a good way to get it in the ballpark, but most experts seem to recommend setting it dynamically.  This will account for individual variations with your engine and setup.

And if you time dynamically you don't even have to get as precise as .8mm to start off.  Snidal's has the procedure and you can search it online.  You will however need to find a good place to do it, preferably a long, isolated hill with minimal traffic and a decent place to pull off the road.

316CMH

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Re: How to adjust timing?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2013, 08:13:01 PM »
Appreciate the timing input! Went out this morning and kicked it over a few times and even messed with the electronic ignition. It sounds and feels to me as though the engine is not building compression. Any suggestions on that? I put a cap full if gas in the spark plug chamber to see if it would kick over with that, negative results. Also, I can take the plug out and put my finger directly over the hole while cranking and I can feel compression but it's not enough to push my finger off.

High On Octane

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Re: How to adjust timing?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2013, 09:40:06 PM »
Sounds like you either have a valve stuck open or burnt piston rings.  Any signs of oil on your exhaust tip?

Scottie
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Arizoni

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Re: How to adjust timing?
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2013, 10:03:00 PM »
316CMH
The compression should have been enough to blow your finger off of the spark plug hole while the engine was being kicked over.

The first thing to check is the decompression valve and its related cable.  It might have failed to close and seal off the cylinder.

Although oil is the preferred fluid, your adding a capfull of gas thru the spark plug hole should have raised the compression if the piston rings were the problem.  The fact that it didn't make a notable difference indicates either the valves are leaking or the head gasket is at fault.

Check the adjustment of the pushrods to make sure they can both be easily turned with your fingers when the piston is at top dead center on the compression stroke.
If your lucky, one of them will be tight and loosening it will fix the problem.

If they both are easily turned (or even slightly loose) your valves are probably at fault.

Jim
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baird4444

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Re: How to adjust timing?
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2013, 01:39:39 AM »
let's not over look the simple...
the bike hasn't run for a long time. Before we decide on rings
I would pour a little oil down the spark plug hole and slowly kick over
 a few times. Now put the plug in and see if you can feel an
increase in compression in the kicker....
  a dry cylinder will spin freely- Mike
"You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning!! "
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 but tomorrow I shall be sober and you will still be ugly'
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316CMH

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Re: How to adjust timing?
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2013, 06:28:27 PM »
I put a small amount of oil in the cylinder when I first got it home.  I took the head off yesterday and made sure the gasket was clean and getting a good seal. Prior to removing the head I checked the valves, both pushrods were tight, would not spin. Once I put everything back together,  I adjusted them properly. Tried to start it and it's backfiring into the carburetor. A blue fireball actually shot out! Where to from here? By the way, you guys are awesome! All your help is greatly appreciated.

High On Octane

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Re: How to adjust timing?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2013, 07:07:07 PM »
If you're shooting a flame out of the carb you are either seriously lean or you're out of time.  If it shot an actual fireball chances are your timing is too far advanced.

Scottie
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver
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The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

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316CMH

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Re: How to adjust timing?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2013, 07:35:41 PM »
Thanks Scottie. I'm able to do some things mechanically myself, do you recommend adjusting the points plate or timing itself? Timing in the motor intimidates me a bit, just being honest. Looks at this point I'll be giving my son a "rolling" project for Christmas.  Hope he don't want me to push him down the driveway.