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Author Topic: Bad engine noise from C5  (Read 1728 times)

Royalista

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Re: Bad engine noise from C5
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2013, 09:23:05 PM »
+1

20-25 sec warm up is short. ECU needs a good 60 seconds before it is ready to perform. About the time one needs to put on gloves, helmet and close the front door.  ;)

Honestly I don't hear anything that would give me cause to concern. It sounds like a cold engine in cold weather, is that correct? These engines have more play than the competition but that's what makes them so robust and willing to go on where others drop. And since you report no loss of function, the bullet performing as well as it did before you started worrying about noises...  :-\

Based on your statement your next oil change is about due. That would be a good time to be extra diligent checking the old oil, cleaning and carefully reinstalling new filter, ring.
moriunt omnes pauci vivunt

Desi Bike

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Re: Bad engine noise from C5
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2013, 01:31:33 AM »
Quote
This clicking noise was not there few months back and is quite loud now. Also the frequency of this noise increases and decreases with the amount of throttle use.

I've listened to the audio files several times with headphones on. There is one sound that sticks out for me. Its an interesting long shot for the ticking metalic noise... but...
At the very end of the files where you shut the engine off, I hear a rattling ping like a group of keys on a keyring in the ignition. Did you put some new keys on the ring with your ignition key recently? That sound can be heard all through the recording if you listen carefully. I might be pulling at strings, its hard to diagnose the engine without being there.

Take a wooden spoon from the kitchen and place one end on your ear and the other on various parts of the engine while it is running to try and isolate where the sound is coming from. Low budget mechanic's stethoscope. Patented in Canada lol!
میں نہیں چاہتا کہ ایک اچار
میں صرف اپنی موٹر سائیکل پر سوار کرنا چاہتے ہیں

JVS

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Re: Bad engine noise from C5
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2013, 02:04:11 AM »
Quote
once in 3-4 weeks I ride on the highways with full throttle use maxing at 110-115 kmph

For how long do you keep it at those speeds?

From the sound clips, as others have mentioned  it is hard to tell, but there is definitely some noticeable clicking. Did you record in an enclosed space? Also, in the service manual it says that the ECU requires 90 seconds before the oxygen sensor comes into play. But this can be 90 +/- 15 seconds.

Considering that the 'sound' has recently increased, I would go with what GHG has said...bad lifter, oil passage issue etc. Hopefully, the 'problem', will be sorted out when you take the bike to the workshop. Good luck and keep us posted.
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iron.head

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Re: Bad engine noise from C5
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2013, 10:31:20 AM »
Engine was warm enough(ridden for 5-7 kms) when the audio recording was done. My bike does not have the oxygen sensor but I will start giving some more warm up time now onwards.

There is definitely some issue with the bike which I will get inspected in next 2 weeks and get back with the results here.

Thanks to everybody! Cheers!

mattsz

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Re: Bad engine noise from C5
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2013, 01:02:29 PM »
Sounds just like mine has sounded since I bought it new.  Interesting that the O2 sensor isn't coming into play in your case.

I have no idea if it's relevant, but your idle speed is only slightly over 800 rpms - much lower than spec.  Has it always been so low?  Lots of people (but not everyone) think my noise is the decompressor; if mine clatters at 1100 rpms, yours certainly could be clattering at 800.

Unless it isn't the decomp at all - I'll be watching this thread with interest - please let us know the results of your inspection!

JVS

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Re: Bad engine noise from C5
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2013, 01:51:46 PM »
My bike does not have the oxygen sensor but I will start giving some more warm up time now onwards.

Ah, so I'm presuming yours is the Indian domestic market Classic 500/350, which has a carb? Or it has an ECU  :o without the oxygen sensor. This can't be right though?  :o

@mattsz

My idle RPM is in the same region, however the decomp clatter is only present during a cold start or if the bike has been sitting for a couple of hours. During summer, the decomp clatter on cold starts reduces significantly for me.

As you've mentioned, it will be great to know the result/cause of this issue and hopefully you'll also be able to sort it out, as I am sure you probably have the same issue also.
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ace.cafe

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Re: Bad engine noise from C5
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2013, 01:59:48 PM »
Ah, so I'm presuming yours is the Indian domestic market Classic 500/350, which has a carb? Or it has an ECU  :o without the oxygen sensor. This can't be right though?  :o

@mattsz

My idle RPM is in the same region, however the decomp clatter is only present during a cold start or if the bike has been sitting for a couple of hours. During summer, the decomp clatter on cold starts reduces significantly for me.

As you've mentioned, it will be great to know the result/cause of this issue and hopefully you'll also be able to sort it out, as I am sure you probably have the same issue also.
The Indian market EFI bikes are open loop, and have no O2 sensors. This created a rich running problem early after initial release, but they have said that they have re-mapped them to be better now. They still have no O2 sensor.

Low rpm at idle is not good for these UCE bikes, for the reasons of the auto-decompressor cut-in speed at 900 rpm(approximately), and the need for strong oil supply to the lifters' hydraulic operation.
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JVS

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Re: Bad engine noise from C5
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2013, 02:22:09 PM »
Tom, thanks for clarifying that the domestic EFI REs are open-loop. I had read that on the Indian RE/Team-BHP forums before, but couldn't remember.  :-X

Also, I understand that low idle RPM is not good for UCE bikes. However, by low I meant RPM which is around 950 (approx) and less than 1300. The idle spec for UCEs is 1050 +/- 250 RPM. Mine is approximately around 900~950. The decomp clatters on cold starts for less than 30 seconds. But I don't even let that happen as I just kickstart it holding the 'manual bi-starter' and keep holding it for those 30 secs till the oil gets going. Depends on the weather too - sometimes I only need to hold the bi-starter for 5 seconds or less (on cold-starts) and then I let it go = nice thump thump thump around 950RPM. This is what works for me. ;)

edit -

Also while we were on the idle RPM issue, listen to this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jku-OXow3Ns It is the domestic standard 350 UCE with carb. Now, that idle just sounds like what Iron Barrels are known for doing easily. That is surely around 800-850RPM. I can't hear any decomp clatter there albeit piston slap? And I am 100% sure if I had to lower my idle just a bit more, the auto-decomp would kick in and start its clack clack clack even if the engine was warm/hot. Interesting.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2013, 02:30:56 PM by JVS »
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ace.cafe

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Re: Bad engine noise from C5
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2013, 02:56:27 PM »
Tom, thanks for clarifying that the domestic EFI REs are open-loop. I had read that on the Indian RE/Team-BHP forums before, but couldn't remember.  :-X

Also, I understand that low idle RPM is not good for UCE bikes. However, by low I meant RPM which is around 950 (approx) and less than 1300. The idle spec for UCEs is 1050 +/- 250 RPM. Mine is approximately around 900~950. The decomp clatters on cold starts for less than 30 seconds. But I don't even let that happen as I just kickstart it holding the 'manual bi-starter' and keep holding it for those 30 secs till the oil gets going. Depends on the weather too - sometimes I only need to hold the bi-starter for 5 seconds or less (on cold-starts) and then I let it go = nice thump thump thump around 950RPM. This is what works for me. ;)

edit -

Also while we were on the idle RPM issue, listen to this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jku-OXow3Ns It is the domestic standard 350 UCE with carb. Now, that idle just sounds like what Iron Barrels are known for doing easily. That is surely around 800-850RPM. I can't hear any decomp clatter there albeit piston slap? And I am 100% sure if I had to lower my idle just a bit more, the auto-decomp would kick in and start its clack clack clack even if the engine was warm/hot. Interesting.

Well, that video is certainly a low rpm idle!

I understand it's a cult thing that has developed there over the years. They do it with the Iron Barrels too. And they lug it down the boulevard in top gear at similarly low rpms too.
I gave up trying to talk sense to them about it.
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mattsz

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Re: Bad engine noise from C5
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2013, 03:03:01 PM »
Also while we were on the idle RPM issue, listen to this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jku-OXow3Ns It is the domestic standard 350 UCE with carb. Now, that idle just sounds like what Iron Barrels are known for doing easily. That is surely around 800-850RPM. I can't hear any decomp clatter there albeit piston slap? And I am 100% sure if I had to lower my idle just a bit more, the auto-decomp would kick in and start its clack clack clack even if the engine was warm/hot. Interesting.

The idle speed in iron.head's audio samples is 800 rpm, or just a hair over.  I counted...  ;)

GreenMachine

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Re: Bad engine noise from C5
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2013, 04:24:43 PM »
Haaaaaaaa right just a hair....I listened to both e clip again..It's giving me a headache and my wife is shouting to put the headphones on....GM
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gashousegorilla

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Re: Bad engine noise from C5
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2013, 05:31:18 PM »
   If it helps...... the auto-comp  SHOULD be done, doing it's thing around 350 RPM's.  The pin should drop back into the groove in the cam at that point.....

 I would think that, you would not want the bike idling with that thing cracking open the exhaust valve and burning it.... IF the bike were to idle at all with the reduced compression.  Just a thought...
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barenekd

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Re: Bad engine noise from C5
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2013, 09:20:13 PM »
It wasn't as loud or clanky as my decomp was. And it didn't follow the rpm changes like that one does. If fact, if you revved it like he did, it would quit clanking. I'll stick with cold piston theory.
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ScooterBob

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Re: Bad engine noise from C5
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2013, 10:58:42 PM »
I'd say if it's under warranty - use the patented Waymond C. Edwards engine noise diagnostic theory. If you run it as hard as it'll go, as fast as it'll go and as long as it'll go - the problem will either become blatantly obvious or go away altogether. Either way - you win. Just sayin' ......  ;)
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gashousegorilla

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Re: Bad engine noise from C5
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2013, 11:19:29 PM »
It wasn't as loud or clanky as my decomp was. And it didn't follow the rpm changes like that one does. If fact, if you revved it like he did, it would quit clanking. I'll stick with cold piston theory.
Bare


 Well, lets hope the mechanic that looks at it, puts in as much thought into this as WE ALL  do. ;)

    Ummmmmmmmmmm ?....... You could be right  Bare ?  I DO hear what you are hearing. That hollow..... slug in a jug sound. Which could be the piston slapping around a bit ?  But, that hollow sound could also be that he has the mic next to the header or exhaust.


   What I think I hear, along with what you are hearing is a lifter tick that turns to a clatter. Weather thats the piston clattering around as the RPM's go up?....... Or is it the Valve train ? Anyways...... I sure hope the bike is not running with the auto-decomp activated.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2013, 11:49:53 PM by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.