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Author Topic: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.  (Read 1626 times)

kammersangerin

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Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« on: December 01, 2013, 07:03:39 PM »
Well guys, the string of glitches keep coming.  :-\ I have watched the video on the O2 sensor andhad planned to it those tests this week. I had some work and then was quite sick when it got super cold, so I did not fiddle. I did run it, but anyways, yeterday I got suited up to go do a table read for an upcoming screen play, and had a bad moment on the way to the forum.
This bike has always been sticky about shifting when cold, but I put that down to British Bike. It was unsually difficult though, and I had to shift down, ansd it simply wouldn;t budge, usually popping up a gear and then back down works but this time I had to put some real pressure onto it, and it popped and went flop. I tried to pul it up with my toe and it popped back into gear, but WAY lower, and I basically got bucked from the bike and went down.

The windshield took the brunt of it it and the left side of the bike was kept undamaged, and I fell clear. I haven't come off a bike in over 25 years, and that was fooling in the dirt.  I was completely armoured in this case, because it's cold.

Only, now I have a bike that acts like it is neutral, with a flopping shift lever, een though pulling it up had some clicking going on.

I did some research on the site and see that the fork mechanism can be kind of sloppy, and the tab can actually jump out. Best case scenario is remving the side plate and resetting it and adding some washers for a more snug fit - it did always have play. I am assuming worst case scenario is a damaged tranny. I am worried because it is rolling as if in neutral, but I am not sure that it is. The shift lever comes to the left quite far, but not out, so something solid is still there.

The easier stuff I am sure the local guys can fix. Actually I could but I don't have a good place right now. The complicated stuff it will probably need to be driven down to the dealer. What's you best guess from what you more experienced guys have seen?

TIA as always.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2013, 07:40:31 PM »
I suspect that it has popped out if the shifter fork.  Tilt the bike to the left and you can take off the right side cover and not spill any oil.  Tell this to the local guys and even they should be able to that sorted. Then you can get it to the dealer and really have it looked at.

Scott

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2013, 09:55:10 PM »
Probably knocked the arm out of the U connector. It's a pretty easy fix. Pull the right side cover off and and it's right there.  Pic of mechanism attached.
Once you get it back together, pull the shift lever and get some 3/4" washers to shim the shaft by sliding them on between the shift lever and case. Leave a little play so the lever still moves freely.
I highly doubt there is any other damaged to the gearbox.
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Arizoni

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2013, 10:00:54 PM »
As a side note:  Each gears "dog" must totally disengage from whatever it is driving before the next gear up or down can engage with whatever it is driving.  This prevents the transmission from being in two gears at the same time.  It also makes a "false neutral" between each gear.

I say, "whatever it is driving" because most motorcycle transmissions gears engage tabs on the shaft they are running on but some motorcycle transmissions gears engage the tabs on the adjacent gear to transmit the power.

The problem in the OP sounds like the shift fork on the shift rod has lost its engagement with the drive for the shift cam that moves the gears.
Jim
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ScooterBob

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2013, 12:47:35 AM »
This, as I understand it, has been an ongoing with more than a few bikes. The parts were not manufactured correctly (ends welded on the shafts at the wrong angles) and parts were poorly designed. There are apparently upgraded parts available. I'd be certain to get this repaired under warranty. It is, as you've discovered, a potentially dangerous condition.
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kammersangerin

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2013, 04:08:24 PM »
This makes me feel a bit better, even though the whole thing is a pain in the tuckus. I think this is the last effort I will make with this bike, or any bike. I can't break down every 400 miles. That's part of the reason the Vespa went. Even under warranty you get tired of being stuck or not able to ride for one reason or another. Looks like only the Japanese can make dependable bikes, soulless as they are.

If its the first part I know my local shop can take care of the problem. They have worked on a lot of British bikes in the past, so they would be competent. It will save an unnecessary trip to the dealer. And no, it isn't under warrranty, though I might start pushes in the community to end this non-transferable warrranty crap. It's a new bike. Period. This stuff shouldn't be breaking.

kammersangerin

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2013, 10:07:56 PM »
So it looks like there is a gasket there. Were you all able to wiggle that off and reuse it? Or is it something that will need to be replaced?

Royalista

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2013, 10:51:44 PM »
There is a gasket.
Very good chance it can be reused, if it passes inspection.
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2013, 11:58:44 PM »
+1.  And if not some Permatex Gray or Black will do.

Scott

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2013, 12:44:16 AM »
+1.  And if not some Permatex Gray or Black will do.

Scott

DO NOT reuse the right side case gasket - and DO NOT put silly putty on it. It has oil passages that can get clogged with sealer - or lose pressure due to a poor seal ..... just get one. They're cheap compared to a trashed engine ...... Just sayin' ......
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High On Octane

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2013, 12:46:40 AM »
DO NOT reuse the right side case gasket - and DO NOT put silly putty on it. It has oil passages that can get clogged with sealer - or lose pressure due to a poor seal ..... just get one. They're cheap compared to a trashed engine ...... Just sayin' ......

Amen to that brother.   8)

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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2013, 12:52:59 AM »
Sorry, I take for granted that I know how to avoid those problems.  I forget not everyone does.

Scott

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2013, 01:55:14 AM »
Sorry, I take for granted that I know how to avoid those problems.  I forget not everyone does.

Scott

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GSS

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2013, 03:37:57 AM »
Here is the rest of the fix....looks like Bare only copied one picture from my old post.

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,14575.msg154863.html#msg154863
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Royalista

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2013, 11:06:04 PM »
Here is the rest of the fix....looks like Bare only copied one picture from my old post.

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,14575.msg154863.html#msg154863

That is very well demonstrated; easy and cheap solution.
I just checked on mine (E5). Have a play of 1.5 mm.
Occasional false neutrals always come due to heavy boots; never experience false neutrals using thinner boots.
Is the shifter problem as discussed typical for C5 or something all might develop?

Edit: disregard question. I've been looking in the books. All are identical in this regard. So all can run into this trouble.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 01:43:54 AM by Royalista »
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Guzzohm

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2013, 12:44:58 AM »
... I think this is the last effort I will make with this bike, or any bike. I can't break down every 400 miles. That's part of the reason the Vespa went. Even under warranty you get tired of being stuck or not able to ride for one reason or another. Looks like only the Japanese can make dependable bikes, soulless as they are...
I am very sorry to hear of your troubles.  I sold my RE after getting tired of things going wonky.  The new Conti might be a whole new world.  I hope so.

There are plenty of smaller motorcycles that are plenty fun, and reliable, too.  The "soul" of a motorcycle is what you make it, and put into it. 

Good luck.
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kammersangerin

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2013, 04:31:36 AM »
Looks like it was Pops to the rescue, though the local guys were even willing to come pick the bike up on their trailer. But while I was off making music Dad decided to be helpful. I had sent him soe of the pictures  from this site I found and you all also referenced. he didn't even have to take the outer case all the way off. He also spent some tie trying to tighten the shift play, but will end up putting a washer or two in. He used to race British cars and was a little disappointed in the design.

ScooterBob - he did reuse the gasket because it's not minor to replace it, and it wasn't really disturbed. It totally stuck to one side. And yes, I agree, while silicone gasket sealer is not what we want in the best of cases, the dealer in Richmond didn't have one in stock and we aren't waiting a week to get one and put it on in freezing weather.

Oil poured everywhere so the bike can't be tested yet. Any suggestions on synthetic oils?

Tomorrow we double check and tighten things, and then test. I coudn't find torque specifications in the owners manual. Are there any?

Arizoni

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2013, 04:51:21 AM »
The service manual says the bolts that hold the side case in place should be torqued to 10 N/M , 7.3 lb/ft or 87 lb/in.
Jim
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gashousegorilla

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2013, 05:02:18 AM »
  The torque spec for the cover bolts are 10 n/m.   And PLEASE stress to your Pops the importance of NOT covering the oil passages on the top of the cover and the corresponding one in the case...it's above the cam plate , and next to one of the cover mounting bolt holes.   ALSO... The importance of the inlet oil pump O ring.  It was likely dislodged  when removing the cover or partially removing the cover. It's behind the oil filter housing, on the INSIDE of the side cover and easily falls out. If it's in poor shape, replace it.... You should be able to find one at an auto store.   Don't run the bike without checking these things !!

 Mobil 1  20-50 syn is fine.....
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

Arizoni

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2013, 05:10:15 AM »
When I hear about n/m or Newton Meters I somehow I visualize a Fig Newton just a bit longer than a yard long.  Yum!

That's why I convert those funny numbers into Lb/Ft or Lb/In.
Well, it's also because my Snap-On torque wrench doesn't have Fig Newtons, I mean Newton Meters on the handle.
Jim
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heloego

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2013, 06:11:01 AM »
Even after 20 years working with Metrics, the first thing that comes to mind is 3.8 liters per flush.  :o
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ROVERMAN

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2013, 08:03:24 PM »
Oh s^%$! ;D ;D ;D

Craig McClure

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2013, 10:22:07 PM »
[quote author

 Mobil 1  20-50 syn is fine.....
[/quote]
+++1,  HARD TO BEAT MOBIL 1  20/50W
Best Wishes, Craig McClure

gashousegorilla

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2013, 11:34:09 PM »
 Good stuff......
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

kammersangerin

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2013, 02:30:14 AM »
Bike is back together, but not really operational yet. Pops did check for additional bits and pieces coming loose when I wasn't watching. He used to race Triumphs, and made me help him work on the race cars -I learned a lot from this - so I trust him. Unfortunately it looks like there is still a problem. It really won't shift gears well at all. Now, the clutch lever was bent, and he thinks it's just not releasing. He was able to rock it back and forth and fiddle and get it up and down through gears so he is blaming the clutch, and the lever at this point. But it means no bike until I get back, and have a new lever. We got it into neutral and it fired right up.  He thought the amount of play in the shifting mechanism was dangerous, and put in the washers.

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2013, 04:04:18 AM »
You do need a little play in the shifter, so don't tighten it up too much.  These bikes are also really picky about clutch free play.  About 2mm at the lever is right.  If your lever is tweaked it may just not work.

Scott

kammersangerin

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2013, 03:29:52 AM »
The bike is back on the road. We waited for better weather and in about an hour had the clutch and other bits adjusted. We did remove one washer, and will find a thinner one, and then get a measure and see for sure. Bits from a Triumph TR6  ;D.

It does actually shift better. Neutral is much easier to find, and the false neutral between 3rd and 4th are less likely to happen.

The little wiring grommit is not quit seated back in so there is a bit of oil weeping. We will fix it if it does not require pulling the case all the way off and the leakage is minimal.

Now fora new windscreen.

Arizoni

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2013, 03:32:50 AM »
It's great to hear you got things fixed and the bike is off and running again. :)
Jim
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High On Octane

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2013, 03:36:15 AM »
+1
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heloego

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2013, 01:11:57 PM »
Another +1.
 :)
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Royalista

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2013, 02:21:25 PM »
More +1
 :D
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2013, 06:51:29 PM »
+3, or +4, or whatever we're up to.

Remember that you do need a little play in and out on the shifter.  Don't make it too tight ;)

Scott

kammersangerin

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2013, 05:39:05 AM »
Frankly, you can't make it tight enough. It popped out again today, with a single washer. This has gotten old real fast. I say RE is just another POS, where they need to pony up and send the better parts and fix the damn thing. It's got 4300 miles on it and has been babied. This shouldn't be happening.

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2013, 07:31:05 AM »
I am sorry to hear about your experience. Should've taken it to the dealer for a second opinion. Not disrespecting or judging your father's work at all.
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kammersangerin

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2013, 01:44:37 PM »
The Dealer is over an hour away, and about 75$ in gas roundtrip for the truck. For a bike they will claim is out of warranty and I will have to pay somene else to fix. So what, a day after fixing it I should spend another 75$ in gas?

The problem was exactly as described on this forum, and has nothing to do with my father's skillset and everything to do with a pathetic weak design. It was patently obvious what happened. The bike gets sticky about shifting when it's nose is pointed slightly uphill, you put pressure on, it jusmps through multiple gears, and finally the shift lever pops out. It's a purely mechanical issue.

I can put up with issues like the paint flaking around the edge of the gas cap, or rust showing up on the show room floor. But the bike needs to be reliable. Period. This is a bad design.

JVS

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2013, 02:39:39 PM »
I wouldn't call it a pathetic weak design.

I am sorry that you had to put up with this.

There are thousands and thousands of UCEs sold each year (of course, mostly in the Indian domestic market), gear lever popping out is very rare, as far as I know (Please feel free to correct me). It is a big leap to call it 'bad design'. I've had no problems with my UCE since I've had it. It has been 22 months. I'm close to 11,000 miles, I also take care of it like a baby, not that I have any of my own, yet. I do not use it as a daily, and I do not over-stress it.

Few members on here have done close to 20,000mi + without the gear lever popping out, or other major problems. Gear shifting on my Bullet is very smooth, I rarely get any false neutrals (almost none), I keep the clutch play at 3mm at the lever. The bike has always been good to me. It is sad that this hasn't been the same for you.

And I am sure there are many UCEs that run close to perfect, and other members can attest to this. Minor issues, I don't care about them. Japanese precision will never be present on these bikes. The Continental is a whole new breed though, seems quite promising. As this is a forum, people come on here to discuss their problems, which are also present in any other marque, whether it be Japanese, German etc. Nothing is perfect.

Calling RE a POS is also calling the 110+ year history behind it crap also. This is old technology with a modern touch, and the UCE has been a new venture for RE since the iron barrel. Some issues can be expected. I am sure their engineers try the best to keep the problems away. A rotten fruit can sometimes go undetected in a picnic basket. Good dealer prep is also the key, plus owner awareness of their own 'baby'.

The bikes are quite reliable, the bad design is only present in your bike's gearbox/mechanism, unfortunately. Spending $75 in gas to get a second opinion would've still been okay, maybe the dealer could've detected something that your father might've overlooked. Just a few posts ago you had mentioned that the bike is back on the road and then the thing went out again. Now, is this bad design or something that is missing in there, or something that hasn't been looked at properly. That is why I was referring to the dealer.

I can only say good luck...or you might just sell it. It is sad to say, but sometimes Enfields are not for everyone.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 02:54:31 PM by JVS »
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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2013, 03:27:41 PM »
Well it's been stated many times that this bike isn't for everyone..My iron isn't perfect (actually it is to me) but I don't rely on it for major transport and it gets shut down for the winter...Sorry about your issues and it might be a good time to consider selling it or trading it in for something more Japanese...GM
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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2013, 05:22:57 PM »

 This shouldn't be happening.



   +1.  And you should not have to be monkeying around with washers to get it right. I'm not so sure it's a problem with the design, as it is with the parts you have on your bike. As stated earlier in the thread.... the angle on the parts could be wrong, or SOMETHING is wrong with your parts.  I never needed washers on my bike, and I must say it's the easiest shifting bike that I have ever owned.  After seeing the washer thing here on the forum, and while I was working on my bike , I tried it. It just caused my shifter to bind......   And no, you should not have to just suck it up or buy a Jap bike,  something ain't right ;)
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 05:25:17 PM by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2013, 05:36:05 PM »
I agree as well with GHG and JVS.  My C5 has fortunately been very reliable.  The washers are not required for these bikes....it was simply a little adjustment to tighten up the shifting in my bike.....driven primarily by a need to tinker rather than a design flaw!

It does appear that there is something wrong with your parts.  Hopefully you can get your bike fixed soon and go back to having fun instead of having to deal with these issues.  I would second the recommendation to get this checked by someone who is comfortable with RE repairs.  Wishing you all the best.

GSS
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 05:38:17 PM by GSS »
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gashousegorilla

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2013, 05:49:45 PM »
I agree as well with GHG and JVS.  My C5 has fortunately been very reliable.  The washers are not required for these bikes....it was simply a little adjustment to tighten up the shifting in my bike.....driven primarily by a need to tinker rather than a design flaw!

It does appear that there is something wrong with your parts.  Hopefully you can get your bike fixed soon and go back to having fun instead of having to deal with these issues.  I would second the recommendation to get this checked by someone who is comfortable with RE repairs.  Wishing you all the best.

GSS


  +1 GSS.   I agree, if it's minor adjustment thing, I don't think it's a big deal with the washer.  But with our unfortunate fellow forum member here, Her problem seems to go beyond that. ;)
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gmmechanic

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2013, 07:26:30 PM »
When i got my c5 it seemed to have false neutrals i the 3-4 shift...i moved the shift lever up 2 splines and issue is gone...aside from that the tranny is smooth...I hope her dad used a manual with all the specs...end play and such is critical on any bike trans...i have been a mechanic since 1970 and have seen many screw ups by people who think they know it all...i know my limitations and when to get professional help from those who know more than i...wish her the best but she needs professional help...
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kammersangerin

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2013, 07:50:20 PM »
Calling RE a POS is also calling the 110+ year history behind it crap also

The Ford model T was a great car. But I don't judge my current Ford truck on what Ford made 100 year ago. I judge it on what is coming out of the factory. I don't mind older technology. I don't mind not having frill. I chose the RE to have a a simple dependable workhorse that didn't have plastic bits to melt in the sun and went from point A to point B with no fanfare, could be fixed easily, and carry stuff around. The Indians ride them every day right?

And yes, professionals who worked routinely on British bikes since the 1950's did look at documentation and were like...hmmm, interesting? 

i moved the shift lever up 2 splines and issue is gone

One would find themselves asking why an adjustment on something like that should really make any difference on something going on inside beyond how you personally were shifting? Your foot angle? I am not being ugly here, I am being serious.

And when I did talk to the dealer they made it sound like a rather big deal to this tinkering you are talking about. Like large amounts of labour for a breakdown. You can imagine why I am a bit hesitant to embark on that one quite yet.

gmmechanic

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2013, 08:39:40 PM »
I was not trying to be condesending or anything like that...I wish to help...I was just stating what worked for me...as i felt the linkage which i will say the lever is dealer installed did not suit my style of riding this one adjustment helped prevent a future possible problem...i hope your issues are resolved ,just remember to keep positive...negative rubs off on others...trying to help the best i can from afar...
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heloego

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Re: Gear shift lever went plop and I got dumped fromthe bike.
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2013, 11:04:24 PM »
Quote
And when I did talk to the dealer they made it sound like a rather big deal to this tinkering you are talking about. Like large amounts of labour for a breakdown. You can imagine why I am a bit hesitant to embark on that one quite yet.

Allison, if your dealer acted that way, particularly after you described the problem, he/she was WAY out of line. A good dealer would have strongly recommended you bring it in ASAP. Your problem has thrown you once. Next time could be much more serious. This isn't about "tinkering around...it's about satisfying a customer and keeping them safe.
Try again to set up an appointment for maintenance and if the problem persists get in touch with Kevin/CMW.
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