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Author Topic: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL  (Read 1405 times)

boggy

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Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« on: December 24, 2013, 11:15:04 PM »
I cannot adjust my clutch.  Been this way since I put on a new cable last Spring, but I did very limited miles during the summer do to the clutch not adjusting and other things.  I'm ready to ride now and trying to get this dang thing sorted out.  I've done the below steps many times now, trying to get it adjusted. 

Notes:
-If I stop, I cannot get it into neutral.  Only from rolling. 
-If I tighten the clutch too much, it will always be slightly disengaged causing me to not have power (as if I were constantly feathering the clutch).

Here are my steps:

Before I start I wind down the handlebar adjustment and lower adjustment so the lever is loose as a goose.  Then:

[1]  Starting with the lifter adjusting screw behind the inspection plate - loosened the jam nut and screwed the center screw in until it just started to touch. Backed off the center screw about a half to 3/4 turn.  Tightened the jam nut.

[2]  Unscrewed the lower adjuster until the lever has no free-play left in it.

[3]  Adjust the top adjuster at the lever.  I wind it out about 3/4 of an inch.

When the bike is cold I put in in first with the clutch pulled, it stalls.  Putting the bike on the center stand when I put it in first, the wheel spins.  Not like the "N" spin.  It's moving fast under power.  Pull in the clutch, no difference.  If I can get rolling and go into first I can get moving enough to warm up but it still never settles in.  I have the bottom adjusted until it can't go any tighter and the lever almost halfway out on that adjustment.  It requires a gorilla's grip to pull the lever.  Once it's hot, it won't stall on me.  I can be in first, clutch pulled, standing still but I can feel the bike wanting to move forward.

If I go any tighter, the clutch is partially disengaged so it's like I'm riding while feathering the clutch, but I'm not. 

It's the same cable part number as what was on there before and I did not have this problem. 

-How do I know if I have bent clutch plates?
-Should I try unscrewing that lifter screw more than 1/2 to 3/4 turn?  Should I try a full turn or even more?  I'm not sure what kind of a difference that will make.

Thanks for any insight.  Super frustrated with this. 

Boggy
2007 AVL
2006 DRZ400SM

baird4444

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2013, 11:45:22 PM »
"  Starting with the lifter adjusting screw behind the inspection plate - loosened the jam nut and screwed the center screw in until it just started to touch. Backed off the center screw about a half to 3/4 turn.  Tightened the jam nut."

    boggy- try just backing it off 1/8th a turn....
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boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2013, 12:07:41 AM »
OK will do.  I was backing it off and watching it move as I pulled in the clutch, but I'm not 100% sure what I'm looking for or how much it should move.

I'll try 1/8.  Thanks.
2007 AVL
2006 DRZ400SM

baird4444

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2013, 04:00:54 AM »
the following has been a dead-on procedure.served me well for years.
 I copied it from a post back in 2007....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have found the clutch adjustment very very fine... A difference of 1/8 of a turn on the adjustment nut makes the difference between slip and drag. Make sure that you cable is not kinked, well lubricated, and runs as straight as you can possible achieve. Do not over fill the primary case with oil; just enough oil to cover the bottom run of the chain on the clutch chain wheel. Do not use engine oil! Loosen off the cable adjuster, adjust the push rod clearance so that it just touches the rod, back it of 1/8 of a turn and carefully tighten the lock nut. Then take up the slack in the cable.
 Assuming that your plates are still serviceable,
 if it still slips, back the adjuster off another 1/8 of a turn. If it drags when hot, increase by 1/8 of a turn.
Tim N.Z.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2013, 04:06:01 AM by baird4444 »
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jeburns55

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2013, 08:07:46 PM »
Stupid question on my part, I suppose, but is the inspection plate on the right side of the bike (kick starter side) in the upper center area of the gear box cover, held on with two screws?

I have a 2009 RE Bullet G5
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 08:10:31 PM by jeburns55 »

boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2013, 02:33:00 AM »
Yep - that's it. 
Stupid question on my part, I suppose, but is the inspection plate on the right side of the bike (kick starter side) in the upper center area of the gear box cover, held on with two screws?

I have a 2009 RE Bullet G5

Not a stupid question.  Yes, that is what I'm referring to.
2007 AVL
2006 DRZ400SM

barenekd

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2014, 07:02:37 PM »
+1 on  the 1/8 turn. 1/2-3/4 turn is never going to release the clutch entirely. The you should only have at most maybe 1/16" clearance when you adjust your clutch cable.
Be sure to do this in the right order. Cable adjustment last after everything else is taken care of.
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boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2014, 09:44:02 PM »
I feel like an 1/8 of a turn made a difference, but not there yet.  Help me understand slip and drag.

If the wheel is spinning with the clutch pulled, I imagine that's drag.  Is slip when you have the clutch lever released but it still feels like you are feathering it?

I haven't tried less than 1/8 of a turn while hot but I just did 1/16 turn cold. To get the bike to even budge while in gear with the lever pulled I have tighten the cables so much that I could never ride it that way.  Or it'll snap in 100 miles.  I know I should try it hot but I don't feel like anything is making a difference.  The bike will barely barely roll and I can hear the piston moving.  I doubt everyone is riding their Bullets with 100 pound clutch levers.  Seriously frustrating.

I'm using engine oil in the primary - maybe that is not helping matters?
2007 AVL
2006 DRZ400SM

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2014, 04:02:59 AM »
It may be time to pull apart the clutch and see if all the plates are flat, warped plates could cause what you are describing. I would try riding it some if I were you before pulling it apart but maybe with the cable adjustment backed off a little from where it sounds like you have it now, let there be a little looseness in the lever when fully released. Drag you will feel when you put it into gear with the clutch lever pulled, I used to find on my Sportster that if it had sat for some time the drag could be enough to move the bike but with use it would quickly free up. Slip is as you describe, the engine can speed up without the bike speed increasing, it will be more pronounced in higher gears and greater throttle opening. Good luck.

ace.cafe

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2014, 10:15:06 AM »
+1
Warped plates.
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boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2014, 03:45:57 PM »
Yeah, I might as well at this point.  Hopefully Snidal has me covered as it's new territory - and double hopefully new plates aren't too expensive.

Thanks for the help.

Oh and I missed Baird's note about not overfilling.  It seems I'm starting a tradition.  About once a year I fill up my primary case WAY too much thinking that I'm WAY too low and about once year I blow oil ALL over the effing place for a few miles.  I'm not even that old of a dog.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 04:14:03 PM by boggy »
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ace.cafe

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2014, 04:31:46 PM »
After you put the new steel plates in, use ATF instead of motor oil in the primary.
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barenekd

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2014, 05:48:41 PM »
The oil level should just be at the bottom run of the chain.

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2014, 06:09:23 PM »
Use a thick piece of glass if you have one to check the flatness of the plates.

Using ATF as Ace and others suggest is the consensus. I use Castrol F type in mine. Also if you have a ES model it is suggested to overfill your primary to get extra lubrication for the sprag clutch. I think 1qt. for the ES. Someone could chime in to verify.

I also use some kerosene in a spray bottle to clean the inside of the primary. I also use the kerosene to clean the clutch pack. If your friction plates are worn out or damaged you might want to upgrade with a set of Barnett or the Surflex plates sold by Hitchcock's. I use the Surflex plates with no slippage whatsoever. I also have the upgraded clutch basket which has upgraded friction rings that are trued once they are installed.
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boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2014, 07:25:49 PM »
A quart of oil in my Electra will result in it blowing out.  I wouldn't be surprised if there is less than a half left in there once it self-regulates.   I have a really good leak, even with a new gasket, from the bottom of the primary cover too so I do need to keep an eye on the level.  There's a good chance I let the clutch get too hot.

I have plenty of ATF around and I will refill with that.  I'll have to check those plates out.  Thanks for the recommendation.
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Blltrdr

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2014, 08:26:15 PM »
Are Electra primary cases vented? Is that why you said it will blow out? I think the amount of oil recommended was 840ml which is double the usual amount. Maybe that amount wasn't recommended for the Electra model.
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boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2014, 04:08:42 PM »
I thought it was vented but I see that it's not. Maybe it's escaping out the chain when it gets all over the back of the bike on an overfill?
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DanB

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2014, 04:23:19 PM »
It is vented if the line is clear or has not been capped off. I run nearly a full liter of oil in the primary of my 2006 Electra. Basically to try and save the sprag. Never had any problems and I keep the vent line clear just in case.
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Blltrdr

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2014, 07:12:44 PM »
I thought it was vented but I see that it's not. Maybe it's escaping out the chain when it gets all over the back of the bike on an overfill?

Well if that is the case your seal is probably shot. Do yo have fluid coming out of that seal where the shaft comes into the primary? If so it should be replaced and in doing so you will have to remove most everything in the primary to get at it.
2003 Classic 500 5 spd
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boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2014, 07:57:49 PM »
Oh man - ok.  I'll have to check.  I'll take it apart this weekend and assess the damage.  I'm glad I mentioned the fluid leak, I thought it was standard operating procedure for overfilling.  Thanks for the heads up. 
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Blltrdr

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2014, 09:22:27 PM »
Oh man - ok.  I'll have to check.  I'll take it apart this weekend and assess the damage.  I'm glad I mentioned the fluid leak, I thought it was standard operating procedure for overfilling.  Thanks for the heads up.

Before you tear it apart, verify primary fluid running down the backside of inner primary case where shaft enters using a mirror and flashlight. You also might want to check for leaks under the inner primary case where it attaches to the crankcase. If you do install a new seal, wrap a thin piece of plastic (Coke bottle) around the shaft and slide the seal onto the plastic glide it over plastic and bolt in place and remove plastic. This will insure you don't damage seal on the splines of the shaft. Another thing to observe is possible leakage from your shaft from the gearbox. This is one other reason using ATF is recommended. Red oil makes it much easier verify. You can also have leakage from your crank seal that drips oil into your primary. This is hard to detect if your using engine oil in the primary also. Just something to think about. Just for troubleshooting you could add some ATF to your primary to change the color of the oil and while you have it running use the mirror and flashlight to see where your leak originates. Verify that the gearbox is/isn't leaking at the same time.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 09:25:00 PM by Blltrdr »
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boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2014, 04:08:04 PM »
I did not have anytime to spend on the bike this weekend but I did drain the primary and was a bit surprised.  I probably added half a quart of oil just recently because I thought I had a leak that as draining it.  I don't think I did have one though, as 1.5 quarts of oil came out of the primary.  So like you suggested, Blltrdr, I don't think the primary case itself was leaking.  Really had me scratching my head as I was "certain" it was so I'll have to see if it's the other sources you mentioned.

However, why would I get oil all over the back of my bike from overfilling the primary?  Too much pressure forced it out elsewhere?
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2006 DRZ400SM

jeburns55

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2014, 09:56:09 PM »
Yep - that's it. 
Not a stupid question.  Yes, that is what I'm referring to.

Hmm, actually I found that under the small cover held on with two screws on the right side of my bike above the kick starter is the oil filter; that can't be where I adjust the clutch, is it?  Any idea where to look on my 2009 G5?

boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2014, 10:10:42 PM »
The adjuster is under the small plate that says "5-Speed" on my 2007 Electra AVL.  I do not know if that is the case on a modern UCE bike.
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2006 DRZ400SM

ERC

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2014, 12:13:37 AM »
It's probably leaking because it's so hot in CA. and the oil is getting to thin not like it was in Boston, when it was so cold the oil was like grease.  ;D  ERC
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boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2014, 04:13:56 PM »
I think you are on to something  8)
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heloego

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2014, 02:33:54 AM »
On the UCE mills, the clutch adjustment is just forward of the clutch arm on the top of the left side of the case. Can't miss it.
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boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2014, 07:36:57 PM »
Use a thick piece of glass if you have one to check the flatness of the plates.

Using ATF as Ace and others suggest is the consensus. I use Castrol F type in mine.

I also use some kerosene in a spray bottle to clean the inside of the primary. I also use the kerosene to clean the clutch pack.

I've got things pulled apart and removed the plates.  I do not have a thick piece of glass but after reading the Snidal manual I figured an easy thing to start with would be to clean the plates.

To clean them should I just soak them in a tub of kerosene?  Maybe wipe them with a rag? 

Snidal also calls to and clean the clutch throw out pad. 

I will refill with ATF.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 07:49:44 PM by boggy »
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Blltrdr

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2014, 08:43:55 PM »
Shouldn't have to soak the parts. I just use some kerosene and a parts brush. You definitely want to check the plates for warping. Check the friction plates for damage. Replace bad parts.
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2014, 09:29:52 PM »
What symptoms appear if clutch plates aren't flat?

Blltrdr

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2014, 10:05:07 PM »
There is only so much movement engineered in a clutch pack. Warped plates infringe on that movement. Bad plates can make it impossible to adjust clutch correctly. You can check on any known flat surface.
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boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2014, 10:56:38 PM »
OK - will do. Thanks.
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Arizoni

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2014, 01:19:07 AM »
What symptoms appear if clutch plates aren't flat?
Warped plates will keep the clutch from disengaging.
This can make getting the transmission into gear very difficult and if the clutch drag is great enough it can bog the engine down at a traffic light.

It is a self destructing condition because the drag of the warped plates will overheat them causing them to warp more.
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boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2014, 04:00:08 AM »
If your friction plates are worn out or damaged you might want to upgrade with a set of Barnett or the Surflex plates sold by Hitchcock's. I use the Surflex plates with no slippage whatsoever. I also have the upgraded clutch basket which has upgraded friction rings that are trued once they are installed.

Help me out with the lingo - I'm looking into buying new parts.  Nfield gear sells Barnett "friction" plates while Hitchcocks sells Surflex "Clutch" plates.  Snidal lists them as "friction plates" and "intermediate" plates.  If i'm replacing the plates, what am I looking for?

I have them pulled and they feel VERY stuck together so they may just need to be cleaned but since I'm in there I figured I'd upgrade.  I'll check to see if they are warped if I can, when I get some time in the garage.

Thanks.
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Blltrdr

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2014, 06:50:08 AM »
You have the choice to replace your friction plates with the stock 5 or 4 spd friction plates or the aftermarket Barnett or Surflex friction plates. You have your two dished metal plates plus your flat (intermediate) steel plates.
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High On Octane

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2014, 12:40:13 PM »
Help me out with the lingo - I'm looking into buying new parts.  Nfield gear sells Barnett "friction" plates while Hitchcocks sells Surflex "Clutch" plates.  Snidal lists them as "friction plates" and "intermediate" plates.  If i'm replacing the plates, what am I looking for?


Thanks.

Here are the 2 types of clutch plates on a bike clutch:
-Friction plates are the plates with the actual clutch material bonded to them.
-Pressure plates are the bare steel plates that go in between and on the outside of the friction plates.

Most times the pressure plates do not wear out, but they can.  Just check them on a sheet of glass or a mirror (as mentioned before).  If there is any kind of warpage in any of pressure plates, replace them all.  If this is the case, your best option is to order the "Clutch Service Kit", it has the friction plates, pressure plates and new springs.

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Blltrdr

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2014, 01:43:23 PM »
Technically the thick outer steel plate with the triangular hole pattern that the springs push against is your pressure plate. The steel plates that make up the clutch pack are specified as flat or dished.
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2014, 02:00:23 PM »
Technically the thick outer steel plate with the triangular hole pattern that the springs push against is your pressure plate. The steel plates that make up the clutch pack are specified as flat or dished.

I'm surprised that you didn't add that friction plates can also be called fiber plates.    ::)

Blltrdr would also like to add that there are 2 different types of springs that come with the service kit, 3 heavy and 3 standard.  These are to be placed in an alternating fashion as to apply even pressure on the plates when engaging and disengaging the clutch.  Just ask him, he apparently knows everything.

Can I get my 2 cents back?  I want a refund.
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2014, 02:23:19 PM »
I expected a reaction like that from you Scotty J. Boggy states he's having problems understanding nomenclature or lingo for the different parts. After reading your post I put in my two cents so he doesn't get even more confused.

And just to clear the air, I have never stated I know everything. I really only comment on things I do know. Unlike yourself who comments on anything and everything for the sake of being what you have described me...... a know-it-all. If you look at how many posts I have made over the many years I have been a member of this forum to the number of posts you have made in your short time as a member it is quite apparent who is who.
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2014, 04:00:26 PM »
I expected a reaction like that from you Scotty J. Boggy states he's having problems understanding nomenclature or lingo for the different parts. After reading your post I put in my two cents so he doesn't get even more confused.

And just to clear the air, I have never stated I know everything. I really only comment on things I do know. Unlike yourself who comments on anything and everything for the sake of being what you have described me...... a know-it-all. If you look at how many posts I have made over the many years I have been a member of this forum to the number of posts you have made in your short time as a member it is quite apparent who is who.

I never said I know everything either, nor will I ever know everything.  I just enjoy how condescending you are about "lingo".  Apparently you do know everything about "lingo" because I've seen you correct SOOOOOOO many people on their "lingo".  I guess I didn't read as much on motorcycle education as you did.  Probably has to do with the fact I'm from Wisconsin.  We're pretty uneducated and behind the the times there, we're too busy eating cheese and drinking beer.

Anyways, to prove my point, I'm not the only jerk off calling the "steel" plates pressure "plates". explicit deleted

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/660419003/motorcycle_clutch_pressure_plate_with_super.html?s=p

The fact is, the "steel" plates keep the clutch "pressure" consistent between ALL the plates.  Why are you..............  Fuck it, it ain't worth my breath.

Scottie

I expected a reaction like that from you Scotty J. Boggy states he's having problems understanding nomenclature or lingo for the different parts...........


Seriously, who talks like that about bikes?   ???
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 04:14:18 PM by Scottie J »
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2014, 04:37:06 PM »
You obviously have character issues, one being lack of character. You are a jerk and the way you attempt to attack me for no reason proves my point.

I spent a lot of time at Volk Field in Wisconsin back in the early 90's as part of NATO air ops. Met many locals while training there and never got a hint that any were lacking an education. That was a long time ago, maybe things have changed.
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #41 on: February 02, 2014, 04:45:25 PM »
And further more this thread is 3 pages long and that was the 1st time I posted on it, which kind of negates your statement about me "posting on anything and everything".  I've received enough thanks from other forum members for knowledge I have shared with them.  If I'm wrong, I admit it.  If I don't have a clue, I don't comment.  If I've had a similar situation, I share my experience.  That's how forums work.  What are you anyway?  Some kind of Super-Perfecto-Steven-Hawking-English-Professor who can do no wrong?  Frankly, I don't care if you like me or not, it's part of the charm of being me.  But it gets under my skin when you tell people (not just myself) that they're wrong based upon your opinion.  You always claim that you try to help people by clearing the confusion, but then you use retarded ass words like "nomenclature".  "Hey Bob!  What's the nomenclature in these clutch plates?"  GTFO

Lack of character?  I don't need character.  I have personality.  And how do you figure I'm "attacking" you for calling you out on BS?  If I wanted to attack you I'd invite you to step into the cage or ring with me in front of a crowd!  I'd even let you choose the fighting style.  It's been a few years, but I reckon I could still knock some respect into you.

Scottie
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #42 on: February 02, 2014, 04:45:34 PM »
Seriously, who talks like that about bikes?   ???

Seriously, who quotes Alibaba? Get yourself a parts book. Book + Read= Education
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 04:53:05 PM by Blltrdr »
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #43 on: February 02, 2014, 04:52:38 PM »
When I watched your vid goofin on your bike in the snow I immediately knew there was some underlying issues with you. YEEHAW!
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2014, 05:03:14 PM »
Seriously, who quotes Alibaba? Get yourself a parts book. Book + Read= Education

I don't generally read.  Any suggestions?
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2014, 05:10:09 PM »
Lack of character?  I don't need character.  I have personality.  And how do you figure I'm "attacking" you for calling you out on BS?  If I wanted to attack you I'd invite you to step into the cage or ring with me in front of a crowd!  I'd even let you choose the fighting style.  It's been a few years, but I reckon I could still knock some respect into you.

Scottie

You obviously don't have a clue about respect or what it takes to earn it. The big clue is you can't knock respect into someone. You clearly have tried to bully your way through life to make your point. The thing that bullies lack most is respect of others. The more they try to impose their will the less respect they get. It's so pathetic, it would be like me telling you that I could bitch slap you into understanding what nomenclature means.
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #46 on: February 02, 2014, 07:16:13 PM »
I had a big long drawn out response, but I'll sum it up.  Hypocrite.  You keep pointing out my faults but yet you refuse to respond to anything I've called you out on.  Bye.
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #47 on: February 02, 2014, 07:43:06 PM »
I had a big long drawn out response, but I'll sum it up.  Hypocrite.  You keep pointing out my faults but yet you refuse to respond to anything I've called you out on.  Bye.

I didn't attack you.

Bye
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #48 on: February 02, 2014, 08:25:53 PM »
Wow.... You guys are a piece of work!!!!  I'm sure the OP is glad they asked for help with assistance like you offer. 
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2014, 08:35:47 PM »
If the OP (Boggy) reads between the lines (posts) he will be able to figure it all out. He is now privy to the lingo (nomenclature).
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2014, 05:59:53 PM »
Actually very helpful.  One thing that was throwing me off was that when I pulled my plates out, it was so sticky in there the last "dished" plate remained and I was counting 1 too few.

I'm going to go with Snidal's lingo, although I understand it much more now with the information listed here.

I have 5 friction plates and 5 intermediate plates.  3 of my 5 intermediate plates are flat, the two outer ones are dished.  The outer most component is my pressure plate.  How did I do?  I think I'm getting it.

So the outer most plate... what Snidal calls the Pressure plate... can get warped too?  I'll have to check that one.

I find it hard to check the flatness of the "friction" plates because of their little grab-teeth (Boggy-lingo).  They don't sit flush on a piece of glass.

I emailed Hitchcocks regarding Surflex plates and NField regarding Barnett to get some price quotes.  Here is Hitchcock's response:

"Dear Sir,
If you choose to use the Surflex plates you will need to convert to a 4 plate clutch.  The reason is that the Surflex plates are thicker and 5 Surflex plates cannot be fitted into the AVL clutch basket.  This will also influence the number of intermediate plates you may need."


First of all, they called me "Sir," so look out Sir Paul.  Second, I don't want to convert to a 4 speed.  I saw a kit on Hitchcock's that included a spacer for the primary cover to accommodate the thicker plates.  Blltrdr... what did you end up with when going with Surflex...  4 speed or 5 with the spacer?

I'm going to wait to see what Tim at NField says about the Barnetts.  He's always been super helpful with parts.  This is my first time in ANY clutch so it's a learning process.  I'm hoping I can get the 5 friction, 5 intermediate and 6 heavy-duty springs and that they will give me a brand new clutch feel.

Thanks for the info.
Boggy
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #51 on: February 03, 2014, 09:03:03 PM »

"Dear Sir,
If you choose to use the Surflex plates you will need to convert to a 4 plate clutch.  "




Check that again. Their "plates" are thicker. Fewer plates, not fewer gears.

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2014, 10:44:34 PM »
Thanks.  I was misunderstanding how it works.  What then, is the difference of having 4 or 5 different plates?
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #53 on: February 03, 2014, 10:52:30 PM »
Boggy I have a 4 spd clutch pack (using the Surflex plates)  with 5 spd gearbox. One less friction and steel flat plate for that setup. I don't use a spacer. Not really sure what you mean by spacer needed.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 10:59:04 PM by Blltrdr »
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #54 on: February 03, 2014, 11:27:57 PM »
Misunderstood again - There is a pressure plate kit on Hitchcocks that doesn't fit the stock case so they provide a spacer for the cover.  I was thinking of that.

OK thanks ... so as I understand it you really can put those thicker plates in because the space inside is the same as having 5 thinner ones.  Other than that, it functions the same.


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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2014, 03:13:36 AM »
With the aftermarket plates, it will function better than stock. But yes it will function the same. When I swapped  out my 4spd to a 5spd I thought the 5spd clutch pack would be the ticket. Very dissapointed. Replaced with the Surflex pack and not one slip since.
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2014, 03:34:03 PM »
That is good to hear.
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #57 on: February 17, 2014, 07:14:58 PM »
The replacement plates are bit more than I want to spend at the moment so I think it's worth cleaning the ones I have.  I have another bike to ride now so I'm patient.

Is there an alternative to kerosene for cleaning the plates?  I can't find it in less than a gallon tin and I don't need/want that much.  Anything else I can clean them with that is easy to find/dispose of?
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #58 on: February 17, 2014, 09:59:42 PM »
A can of brake cleaner would work great. I use kerosene in my parts washer which takes ten gallons to fill the washer tub and it's cheap and last a very long time.
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #59 on: February 17, 2014, 10:22:48 PM »
Excellent, thanks.
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #60 on: February 18, 2014, 01:24:24 AM »
another thing to remember when you put it all back together. A chain that is to tight or to loose can make shifting a bitch, almost like your clutch isn't right...
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #61 on: February 18, 2014, 04:29:54 AM »
I've seen kerosene for sale in quart bottles for use in old fashioned kerosene lamps.

Of course many of them are scented and they want more for them than two gallons of gasoline would cost.
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #62 on: February 18, 2014, 10:25:09 PM »
another thing to remember when you put it all back together. A chain that is to tight or to loose can make shifting a bitch, almost like your clutch isn't right...
           - Mike

I did NOT know that - Thanks for the heads up.  I will check.

Yeah I thought I've seen small bottles of kerosene for zippo lighter refills.  I'll grab some brake cleaner from the auto store.  Easy enough.

Thanks.
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2014, 05:20:17 AM »
For what it's worth, Zippo lighters use Naphtha or white gas for their fluid.
I was talking about the old fashioned kerosene lamps with the glass globe or the lanterns like the old railroads used.

I'm not going to suggest that anyone do this but back when I was a young kid, my buddies and I usually used gasoline in a steel pan to clean parts. Obviously more dangerous than kerosene but it works.

If you use disk brake cleaner be sure to apply some oil to any steel parts as soon as their cleaned.

Kerosene, coal oil, or gasoline (petrol) will thin any oil that's on the plates but it won't totally destroy the oils ability to protect steel parts from oxidation.
Disk brake cleaner on the other hand will totally destroy any oil it contacts so the parts will need to be re-oiled to protect them.

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #64 on: May 06, 2014, 11:23:20 PM »
Haven't touched my AVL since I got my DRZ - Having too much fun riding a working motorcycle.

I was holding off on new clutch plates because my moto-funds are dry so I figured I'd clean the existing plates and see if they were just gunked up.  Got them nice and shiny and reinstalled. Tightened, then backed off the center screw in the adjustment nut 1/8 of a turn.  No luck, that back wheel spins and spins in gear.  If I apply rear brake it stalls (wheel is up on center stand). 

So that is drag, correct?  Would you expect more or less drag winding that screw out more?

The plates, I'm sure, are bent.
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #65 on: May 07, 2014, 04:08:14 AM »
You have to slack of the adjusters before the adjustment. Afterward readjust the cable.
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #66 on: May 07, 2014, 02:03:19 PM »
Right.  Yeah, I did do that.  I've slacked and tightened that damn cable more times than I care.  I really thought cleaning it had worked, before I fired it up.  It moved well with the clutch lever pulled and I couldn't push it with it released.  That felt better than before where it would feel like it was dragging with the clutch pulled.  But... I guess these dang plates are just warped.  At least now, it seems, I know.  I think I was quoted a few hundo for all the plates and some new springs from NField.  I'm pretty sure this AVL has cost me more in parts than it did to buy the whole machine at this point.  It's frustrating.
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #67 on: May 07, 2014, 05:45:40 PM »
Right.  Yeah, I did do that.  I've slacked and tightened that damn cable more times than I care.  I really thought cleaning it had worked, before I fired it up.  It moved well with the clutch lever pulled and I couldn't push it with it released.  That felt better than before where it would feel like it was dragging with the clutch pulled.  But... I guess these dang plates are just warped.  At least now, it seems, I know.  I think I was quoted a few hundo for all the plates and some new springs from NField.  I'm pretty sure this AVL has cost me more in parts than it did to buy the whole machine at this point.  It's frustrating.

It can be frustrating. If you feel you have put more money in the bike than the amount of enjoyment you have received from owning it then it might not be the right bike for you. But I would bet that you deal with this clutch issue and solve it that this will be a fun bike for you. Funny how things change once you sort things out. Any way good luck. Clutch is pretty simple. Hitchcock's sells a clutch service kit that has the friction and steel plates plus 3 std springs and 3 HD springs for $115. I'm sure Nfield Gear can get that same kit for you. Sounds like it might have got pretty hot. Like Ace suggests, replacing the steel ball that the clutch rod pushes against with a ceramic one will also help minimize friction. I can't remember the size but you should be able to find it doing a search. You could probably source one locally. Also replacing the clutch pad with one that has the bearing is an improvement. Myself I replaced my stock 5 spd clutch pack (crap) with an upgraded 4 spd pack using Hitchcock's Surflex friction plates and the stock metal plates from the 5 spd pack. Works perfect
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 06:02:07 PM by Blltrdr »
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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #68 on: May 09, 2014, 11:58:59 PM »
It can be frustrating. If you feel you have put more money in the bike than the amount of enjoyment you have received from owning it then it might not be the right bike for you. But I would bet that you deal with this clutch issue and solve it that this will be a fun bike for you. Funny how things change once you sort things out.

You are right. When it's running - it's incredible.  I got a second bike so I didn't have to worry about not having a working moto which was a major life upgrade.  I'll probably never sell the AVL.  I have dreams of a glorious machine - it may just take some time. 

Thank Blltrdr,
Boggy 
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