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November 23, 2014, 01:44:19 PM

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Author Topic: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL  (Read 2653 times)

boggy

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Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« on: December 24, 2013, 11:15:04 PM »
I cannot adjust my clutch.  Been this way since I put on a new cable last Spring, but I did very limited miles during the summer do to the clutch not adjusting and other things.  I'm ready to ride now and trying to get this dang thing sorted out.  I've done the below steps many times now, trying to get it adjusted. 

Notes:
-If I stop, I cannot get it into neutral.  Only from rolling. 
-If I tighten the clutch too much, it will always be slightly disengaged causing me to not have power (as if I were constantly feathering the clutch).

Here are my steps:

Before I start I wind down the handlebar adjustment and lower adjustment so the lever is loose as a goose.  Then:

[1]  Starting with the lifter adjusting screw behind the inspection plate - loosened the jam nut and screwed the center screw in until it just started to touch. Backed off the center screw about a half to 3/4 turn.  Tightened the jam nut.

[2]  Unscrewed the lower adjuster until the lever has no free-play left in it.

[3]  Adjust the top adjuster at the lever.  I wind it out about 3/4 of an inch.

When the bike is cold I put in in first with the clutch pulled, it stalls.  Putting the bike on the center stand when I put it in first, the wheel spins.  Not like the "N" spin.  It's moving fast under power.  Pull in the clutch, no difference.  If I can get rolling and go into first I can get moving enough to warm up but it still never settles in.  I have the bottom adjusted until it can't go any tighter and the lever almost halfway out on that adjustment.  It requires a gorilla's grip to pull the lever.  Once it's hot, it won't stall on me.  I can be in first, clutch pulled, standing still but I can feel the bike wanting to move forward.

If I go any tighter, the clutch is partially disengaged so it's like I'm riding while feathering the clutch, but I'm not. 

It's the same cable part number as what was on there before and I did not have this problem. 

-How do I know if I have bent clutch plates?
-Should I try unscrewing that lifter screw more than 1/2 to 3/4 turn?  Should I try a full turn or even more?  I'm not sure what kind of a difference that will make.

Thanks for any insight.  Super frustrated with this. 

Boggy
2007 AVL
2006 DRZ400SM

baird4444

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2013, 11:45:22 PM »
"  Starting with the lifter adjusting screw behind the inspection plate - loosened the jam nut and screwed the center screw in until it just started to touch. Backed off the center screw about a half to 3/4 turn.  Tightened the jam nut."

    boggy- try just backing it off 1/8th a turn....
               - Mike
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boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2013, 12:07:41 AM »
OK will do.  I was backing it off and watching it move as I pulled in the clutch, but I'm not 100% sure what I'm looking for or how much it should move.

I'll try 1/8.  Thanks.
2007 AVL
2006 DRZ400SM

baird4444

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2013, 04:00:54 AM »
the following has been a dead-on procedure.served me well for years.
 I copied it from a post back in 2007....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have found the clutch adjustment very very fine... A difference of 1/8 of a turn on the adjustment nut makes the difference between slip and drag. Make sure that you cable is not kinked, well lubricated, and runs as straight as you can possible achieve. Do not over fill the primary case with oil; just enough oil to cover the bottom run of the chain on the clutch chain wheel. Do not use engine oil! Loosen off the cable adjuster, adjust the push rod clearance so that it just touches the rod, back it of 1/8 of a turn and carefully tighten the lock nut. Then take up the slack in the cable.
 Assuming that your plates are still serviceable,
 if it still slips, back the adjuster off another 1/8 of a turn. If it drags when hot, increase by 1/8 of a turn.
Tim N.Z.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2013, 04:06:01 AM by baird4444 »
"You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning!! "
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'My dear you are ugly,
 but tomorrow I shall be sober and you will still be ugly'
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jeburns55

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2013, 08:07:46 PM »
Stupid question on my part, I suppose, but is the inspection plate on the right side of the bike (kick starter side) in the upper center area of the gear box cover, held on with two screws?

I have a 2009 RE Bullet G5
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 08:10:31 PM by jeburns55 »

boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2013, 02:33:00 AM »
Yep - that's it. 
Stupid question on my part, I suppose, but is the inspection plate on the right side of the bike (kick starter side) in the upper center area of the gear box cover, held on with two screws?

I have a 2009 RE Bullet G5

Not a stupid question.  Yes, that is what I'm referring to.
2007 AVL
2006 DRZ400SM

barenekd

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2014, 07:02:37 PM »
+1 on  the 1/8 turn. 1/2-3/4 turn is never going to release the clutch entirely. The you should only have at most maybe 1/16" clearance when you adjust your clutch cable.
Be sure to do this in the right order. Cable adjustment last after everything else is taken care of.
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boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2014, 09:44:02 PM »
I feel like an 1/8 of a turn made a difference, but not there yet.  Help me understand slip and drag.

If the wheel is spinning with the clutch pulled, I imagine that's drag.  Is slip when you have the clutch lever released but it still feels like you are feathering it?

I haven't tried less than 1/8 of a turn while hot but I just did 1/16 turn cold. To get the bike to even budge while in gear with the lever pulled I have tighten the cables so much that I could never ride it that way.  Or it'll snap in 100 miles.  I know I should try it hot but I don't feel like anything is making a difference.  The bike will barely barely roll and I can hear the piston moving.  I doubt everyone is riding their Bullets with 100 pound clutch levers.  Seriously frustrating.

I'm using engine oil in the primary - maybe that is not helping matters?
2007 AVL
2006 DRZ400SM

RGT

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2014, 04:02:59 AM »
It may be time to pull apart the clutch and see if all the plates are flat, warped plates could cause what you are describing. I would try riding it some if I were you before pulling it apart but maybe with the cable adjustment backed off a little from where it sounds like you have it now, let there be a little looseness in the lever when fully released. Drag you will feel when you put it into gear with the clutch lever pulled, I used to find on my Sportster that if it had sat for some time the drag could be enough to move the bike but with use it would quickly free up. Slip is as you describe, the engine can speed up without the bike speed increasing, it will be more pronounced in higher gears and greater throttle opening. Good luck.

ace.cafe

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2014, 10:15:06 AM »
+1
Warped plates.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2014, 03:45:57 PM »
Yeah, I might as well at this point.  Hopefully Snidal has me covered as it's new territory - and double hopefully new plates aren't too expensive.

Thanks for the help.

Oh and I missed Baird's note about not overfilling.  It seems I'm starting a tradition.  About once a year I fill up my primary case WAY too much thinking that I'm WAY too low and about once year I blow oil ALL over the effing place for a few miles.  I'm not even that old of a dog.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 04:14:03 PM by boggy »
2007 AVL
2006 DRZ400SM

ace.cafe

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2014, 04:31:46 PM »
After you put the new steel plates in, use ATF instead of motor oil in the primary.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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barenekd

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2014, 05:48:41 PM »
The oil level should just be at the bottom run of the chain.

Bare
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Blltrdr

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2014, 06:09:23 PM »
Use a thick piece of glass if you have one to check the flatness of the plates.

Using ATF as Ace and others suggest is the consensus. I use Castrol F type in mine. Also if you have a ES model it is suggested to overfill your primary to get extra lubrication for the sprag clutch. I think 1qt. for the ES. Someone could chime in to verify.

I also use some kerosene in a spray bottle to clean the inside of the primary. I also use the kerosene to clean the clutch pack. If your friction plates are worn out or damaged you might want to upgrade with a set of Barnett or the Surflex plates sold by Hitchcock's. I use the Surflex plates with no slippage whatsoever. I also have the upgraded clutch basket which has upgraded friction rings that are trued once they are installed.
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boggy

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Re: Cannot adjust clutch on AVL
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2014, 07:25:49 PM »
A quart of oil in my Electra will result in it blowing out.  I wouldn't be surprised if there is less than a half left in there once it self-regulates.   I have a really good leak, even with a new gasket, from the bottom of the primary cover too so I do need to keep an eye on the level.  There's a good chance I let the clutch get too hot.

I have plenty of ATF around and I will refill with that.  I'll have to check those plates out.  Thanks for the recommendation.
2007 AVL
2006 DRZ400SM