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Author Topic: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread  (Read 7248 times)

ace.cafe

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #240 on: June 17, 2014, 11:20:03 AM »
Sometimes you can just give the side of the float bowl a good rap with the plastic handle of a screwdriver, and it might dislodge the little piece of grit that is stuck there.
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Bullet Whisperer

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #241 on: June 17, 2014, 12:50:20 PM »
Sometimes you can just give the side of the float bowl a good rap with the plastic handle of a screwdriver, and it might dislodge the little piece of grit that is stuck there.
+1 and another way that often sorts it is to ride with the fuel tap switched off and quickly switch it back on when the engine starts to falter - the sudden incoming rush of fuel passing a more open than usual float needle usually does the job  ;)
 B.W.

ace.cafe

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #242 on: June 17, 2014, 05:33:41 PM »
+1 and another way that often sorts it is to ride with the fuel tap switched off and quickly switch it back on when the engine starts to falter - the sudden incoming rush of fuel passing a more open than usual float needle usually does the job  ;)
 B.W.

+1
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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ace.cafe

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #243 on: June 24, 2014, 01:53:46 PM »
So, are we okay, or what?
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tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #244 on: June 24, 2014, 11:58:39 PM »
So, are we okay, or what?

            This story can finally start to be told & it's funny that you should ask today - the very day that I had decided to post something depending on the results of my latest experiment which I have just come upstairs from conducting & it was the best of ALL of them in the past 13 days since that first (beginner's luck  ;) ) 4-kick start after all the head work & a new, different carburetor.

        First I'm sorry it's been so long especially for you, Ace, but I had to do this my way so I could keep all the changes straight in my head & not get  too many suggestions thrown at me for each new little problem that always seem to be 180 degrees from each other. 

         I'm gonna stick to just the good stuff in this post & leave the "nightmares" for tomorrow. It's sposta' rain.

          First off, the engine is absolutely MARvelous in every way out on the road & is now a totally improved better bike in every way in every gear. It gets to any given speed way easier than before & is perfectly tractable in any gear any speed. It sits on 50 in 5th so easy & solid (or in 4th) it's mystical. It jumps to 70 (on the speedo) from 50 in 5th so easily & quickly I sometimes think I'm on the harley. I think I've held 70 with no problem & no feeling of straining 3 times for a couple miles only because I'm not comfortable any more at 70, I hate the wind. I'm sure it would cruise at 60 as long as I'd care to or the gas ran out.

         I've also checked very carefully for ping in a lot of different ways & there's not a hint of the evil ball bearings in a coffee can  (93 octane with a dash of MMO).

           It will also putt along happily like a watch on the blue roads (flat, no load) in 4th at 30, 35, 40, 45 up & down with smooth, Porsche-like down shifts for any corners where 3rd feels better with just an uncanny smoothness. Also solid as a rock idles (now) at lights or stop signs with no sign of "fixin' to die".   

          My real problem (nothing new) is that after 20 miles my right arm is in such F-ing pain from neck to fingers that I have to head home or stop & get off. Just the weight of the arm itself will dislocate it. It's what gonna stop me very soon, I think. But not yet.

           More tomorrow. Ace, I could not be happier. Thank you.   
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 12:01:06 AM by tooseevee »
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ace.cafe

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #245 on: June 25, 2014, 01:08:46 AM »
That was a very nice report, Tooseevee!
It makes me happy! I am always happy when our efforts succeed at what our clients wanted from the modifications.
It sounds to me like the bike behaves like the Iron Barrel Fireball, with the hallmark of mystical smoothness and power on tap that they all seem to have. That is a very important set of characteristics for a street machine. I'm very pleased that it is behaving that way.

If you haven't had to change the compression since we last spoke, then it is working in a compression range which no other Bullet(that I know of) has been able to reach on pump gas. It's nearly 10:1 static compression. That chamber mod must really be working! I am extremely pleased about that!

In fact, I'm really pleased about everything in your report.
I'll be interested to read the "nightmares" you encountered. I hope they weren't too bad.

Thank you, Tooseevee, for having the faith in our abilities to be the first AVL owner to take this plunge. We worked to the best of our abilities to give you the best result that we were capable of, for your intended application.
 ;D
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Chuck D

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #246 on: June 27, 2014, 12:19:21 PM »
Great report! I'm glad that everything is starting to gel for you, you deserve it. Best of luck and keep keeping us informed.
Also, a video walkaround would be cool. ::)
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tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #247 on: June 28, 2014, 12:30:46 PM »
Great report! I'm glad that everything is starting to gel for you, you deserve it. Best of luck and keep keeping us informed.
Also, a video walkaround would be cool. ::)

            Hey, Chuck. Just noticed your post this morning. For some reason I'm not being "Notified" any more. I thought there for a while nobody cared about all the work Ace & his crew did but Ace.

             I tried doing a video a couple years ago, but then the computer for some reason decided it would not run it & just turned it into a static picture. Who knows? Maybe I'll give it another try.

             I still haven't hit on exactly "the right stuff" in the carb tuning process to make it a steady one or two kick starter (& I've spent a full two weeks on pilot jets, mixture screw & various starting techniques letting it cool 2 or 3 hours between each change or overnight). I've gone one jet up & one jet down on the way with endless mixture screw settings & looky looks at the plug. I think the needle height is OK. I really don't want to deal with that spring ever again  >:(

            I'm now back with the #30 Pilot I started with, mixture screw at 2 1/4 turns out & it's the best it's been. Compression is amazing now; harder to get to that just right place past TDC (the so-called compression release on the AVL is totally useless. You have to "feel it yourself" with your foot).   

            That 2 1/4 turns out seems to me to indicate one size smaller Pilot, but it did not like THAT at all.

             I'm also getting more sprag chatter at the bottom of unsuccessful kick strokes than before & I HATE that noise. Somewhere down the line it's ALL coming out! I HATE that friggin' sound.

             Once it's running it's marvelous, but I've almost ended up on the floor a couple times when I've gotten so pissed I didn't stop & walk away soon enough. What it seems to want at the present settings is one kick with the key off & the choke pulled then two to three kicks with the choke off key on. I need to get that to one or two kicks some day. And one kick warm PERiod. I cannot deal with hard starts if I stop somewhere; I'll end up in the hospital with my hip ball jammed in my liver    :) ;) 
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 12:44:34 PM by tooseevee »
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ace.cafe

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #248 on: June 28, 2014, 12:39:34 PM »
2-1/4 turns out is within the acceptable range. It can accept up to 3 turns out.
The starting behavior is all in the pilot and the air bleed screw.

Sometimes if you do a "priming kick" prior to turning the key on, that can help with starting.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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High On Octane

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #249 on: June 28, 2014, 01:38:56 PM »
Tooseevee - Next time try your priming kicks with the choke on to help get some fuel in the cylinder.  And I hate to say it but if your bike seems to be stuck between a rock and a hard place for the needle jets, you might need to stay with the larger needle jet and drop the needle itself one notch.  I know that the carb spring/slide assembly is a PITA but you definitely should be able to start that beast in 1 or 2 kicks.  Just out of curiosity, about how many revolutions is the motor turning when you kick?  I have to really stomp my twin to get it to come around 2 revolutions and when it comes around on the 2nd turn is when it catches and fires.

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Chuck D

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #250 on: June 28, 2014, 01:50:09 PM »
Hi tooseevee,
Just as a point of reference, I'll give you some of the carb settings that I've found to work well throughout the season. I'm in the temperate northeast (NY) and usually near to sea level.

35-60F:
30 pilot 2.5-2.25 turns out.
P6 -P4 needle jet. (it starts wanting the P4 at around 45-50 degrees).
6dp17 (clip on the 3rd or middle slot).
185 main.

60-80F
30 pilot 2.5 turns out.
P4 needle jet.
Needle stays in the 3rd (middle) slot.
180 main.

80-100F
30 pilot 2.5-2.75 turns out.
P4
At this point you might want to experiment with lowering the needle by half a slot with a shim. This if you start to notice a slight hiccup in the 1/4-1/3 throttle range. Yes, I know it's a pain and it might not even be an issue. Forget I mentioned it. ;D.

Very cold (35 and below)
As above with 190 main and a P6.

So, in case you didn't notice, you're really only swapping the main and needle jet a couple of times a year and zeroing in on a perfect idle over only 3/4 of turn on the air bleed screw. I always have a tiny screwdriver in my pocket for that.

As Tom mentioned, that priming kick prior to turning the key on will help. At this time of year I leave the choke OFF. As it gets even warmer, I usually even forgo the priming kick. But that's just my bike and it doesn't need or want a huge flood of gas to start. Even in cooler temps. It sounds to me like yours might be similar in that regard.

Hope you find this useful.

Chuck.
2006 Bullet Sixty-5 w/ Ace "Fireball 535" Kit (#10)
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azcatfan

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #251 on: June 28, 2014, 02:48:02 PM »
                         I'm also getting more sprag chatter at the bottom of unsuccessful kick strokes than before & I HATE that noise. Somewhere down the line it's ALL coming out! I HATE that friggin' sound.

When I was rejetting the carb after the Ace air intake and gutted HD silencer I found the tuning nerve racking.  I have an '02 with the unimproved Indian Hand Grenade on the front for a starter.  While tuning the carb after the upjet, the occasional stall would occur and there was that nasty sound- 'click wrrrrrr'  So I feel your pain there.  I never use the damn thing, and the first reason I have to be in that far, it is coming out.

Sometimes if you do a "priming kick" prior to turning the key on, that can help with starting.

I've always done this, I kind of like the idea of some oil getting moved around as well.  Even in cold (well, cold for AZ) it's usually a one-kick affair after the 'prime'.
-2002 Bullet ES Up-Jetted with Ace Air Canister and punched HD Exhaust.

tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #252 on: June 28, 2014, 02:56:13 PM »
2-1/4 turns out is within the acceptable range. It can accept up to 3 turns out.
The starting behavior is all in the pilot and the air bleed screw.

Sometimes if you do a "priming kick" prior to turning the key on, that can help with starting.

             Read my last paragraph again, Ace. That's exactly what I HAVE been doing. That's what it seems to want with the #30 pilot & 2 1/4 turns out.
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ace.cafe

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #253 on: June 28, 2014, 03:00:50 PM »
             Read my last paragraph again, Ace. That's exactly what I HAVE been doing. That's what it seems to want with the #30 pilot & 2 1/4 turns out.

Okay, well you ARE close.
It is just very fine fiddling with the screw that will get the last bit there. And as Chuck points out, that will change with the temperatures and seasonal weather conditions.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #254 on: June 28, 2014, 03:05:34 PM »
Tooseevee - Next time try your priming kicks with the choke on to help get some fuel in the cylinder.  And I hate to say it but if your bike seems to be stuck between a rock and a hard place for the needle jets, you might need to stay with the larger needle jet and drop the needle itself one notch.
Scottie J

           Read the last paragraph again. That's what I'm doing; one kick Key Off Choke ON. Two kicks (sometimes 3) choke off key on.

           And I haven't done anything to the needle jet or the needle. They're the same from day one.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 03:07:55 PM by tooseevee »
2008 ACE Head AVL Classic
1977 Shovelhead Hardtail Bobber