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Author Topic: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread  (Read 7946 times)

tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2014, 07:40:31 PM »
If you are satisfied that a peak power rpm of  6000 rpm is okay for you, then the TM32 will do fine. You only need the TM34 if the desired rpms are higher than 6000 rpm. They will both fit the manifold, so you can pick the one you want, based on your needs.
And as the rpm requirements go higher, even larger carbs can be needed.
It depends on your desires.

I need to know which one you pick, so we can port the head to suit.
This means filling the port floor up with some filler, so that it can be made smaller for this application. The port size as it comes from the factory is too big for normal purposes. A smaller port diameter will help your midrange torque and cruising power, which seems to be what you are wanting, right?

           With my age & riding habits today, 6,000 is all I'll ever need or want.

            I concur with all you say above.

             I'm a bit concerned going beyond doing all we can to the head only to make it work as well as possible & to work well with the TM-32. I think that's enough for me.

              Going into pistons & compression &/or cams seems a little scary to me now. Not because of ability, but simply "why". That plus I don't want to have something else to do Next Time or whatever plus my own physical limitations. I manage a half hour at a time most days.

             I could change a piston, no problem, but that could lead to more. And more. I want to be just riding by April & I don't want to take it apart again next winter to do something else.

             Do you get what I'm getting at?

             I'll order the TM-32 this afternoon.
2008 ACE Head AVL Classic
1977 Shovelhead Hardtail Bobber

TejK

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2014, 06:34:23 PM »
Guys , just wondering .....


.....are we there yet ?

Wondering what Ace will develop for the AVL kit.

ace.cafe

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2014, 11:01:22 PM »
Guys , just wondering .....


.....are we there yet ?

Wondering what Ace will develop for the AVL kit.
No, we are not there with a kit yet.

What we are doing is meeting the goals for Tooseevee with this effort. During the process, we are gaining and have gained the necessary information to allow us to know how to approach this engine for various stages of modifications. We needed to get an AVL head in our hands to see its characteristics and evaluate and develop modification strategies . We will then be able to do custom jobs on AVL heads and  certain parts at whatever power level and application might be desired by the owner. This is what we do with all the Bullets. The "kit" is just one possible permutation that happens to be a popular one for a typical street rod application. All our jobs are custom jobs, hand done, one at a time, so any custom desires can be worked into the job on request. We already know most everything we need to know about modding these heads, and we are soon to know the rest of the details.

If anyone wants a job on their AVL head, please don't feel like you have to wait. We can begin moving on your job as soon as you wish to contact us to discuss your needs.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 11:11:26 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2014, 03:30:47 PM »
      The Mikuni TM-32 arrived yesterday. Nice looking carburetor.

       Some initial observations:
           Very light
           Very different feel to the slide vs BS-29 CV (yup, I know why)
           Much larger fuel inlet fitting
           HUGE filter side hole vs BS-29
           Much higher than the BS

           Can someone (who's actually used it) verify that Sudco throttle cable 021-947 is correct for this carb with stock handlebars? Why I ask is that the catalog sez it's for VM-34. I guess a lot of the VM & TM parts are the same?

            Also have those of you who have the TM-32 on an AVL put an angled Cable Adjuster on or did the vertical one work OK with the sharp turn? Was your frame tube a problem? Sudco has 40 & 90 degree ones listed.

              Ace - Do you have an old Ace Canister laying around  ??? ?
2008 ACE Head AVL Classic
1977 Shovelhead Hardtail Bobber

motoguzzibill

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2014, 04:23:44 PM »
I recently put a TM-32 on my AVL. I modified the stock throttle cable to fit, just takes a little time and soldering. Bend/curve in the cable is not a problem. The bell mouth in the intake side of the carb is huge, 58 mm if I remember correctly. At the local ACE Hardware I found a black rubber-ish flexible 2"X4" connector which fit the bell mouth real well. I glued a UNI foam filter to the end of the connector, very clean fit. I chose to enlarge "opening" on the edge of the side cover to avoid rubbing between the connector and sidecover. Foam filter sits behind the sidecover, only the black connector from the carb mouth is visible. Clean, efficient,functional, and affordable. There is more intake noise at idle, but it is a big air pump.

I'm in the process of installing the "S" cams from BW, and waiting for the snow to melt. Looking forward to hearing/learning more about port modifications from ACE. My JB Weld is ready!
Bill N.

tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2014, 05:09:06 PM »
I recently put a TM-32 on my AVL. I modified the stock throttle cable to fit, just takes a little time and soldering. Bend/curve in the cable is not a problem.
Bill N.

            You changed the ball on the end? What did you use? Is it a split ball you can find at a bike shop?
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High On Octane

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2014, 05:13:13 PM »
The balls are just soldered on 2CV.  Use a small propane torch to heat it up, the solder will melt and the ball will come right off.  Make your adjustments to the cable housing and cable and then use a vice or something to hold ball in place and solder the cable back on using either the torch or a good soldering iron.  Not difficult at all.

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tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2014, 06:16:43 PM »
The balls are just soldered on 2CV.  Use a small propane torch to heat it up, the solder will melt and the ball will come right off.  Make your adjustments to the cable housing and cable and then use a vice or something to hold ball in place and solder the cable back on using either the torch or a good soldering iron.  Not difficult at all.

Scottie

           I realize that, Scottie. I've done it changing to S&S carbs on harleys. But you can't put the same BS-29 ball back on the RE cable.

           The stock RE throttle cable ball end for the BS-29 won't fit the TM-32; it's way bigger. Hence my question to motoguzziguy since he says he's done it: Is the cable ball for the TM a Mikuni piece you can get at a bike shop? You can't use the same ball.

            Maybe you file it down to fit. Fine. Just lookin' ahead & lookin' fer ideeers.
2008 ACE Head AVL Classic
1977 Shovelhead Hardtail Bobber

DanB

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2014, 06:36:37 PM »
Hi 2CV,

I had the same thought as you.  I just purchased a normal IB throttle cable for the VM series carbs (TM/VM cables use the same ball at the end).  However, that Sudco cable that Ace recommended looks WAY better. 

Based on what I've read, a few folks have used the angled cable adjuster and others haven't.  Seems to work either way and i'll be without it as it all lines up for me ok. 

How about the spring in the TM?  Like wrestling a greased up weasel trying to stuff it all back in, eh?
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boggy

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2014, 07:45:52 PM »
Ace,
I'm excited to hear what you can do with the AVL and when I have something else to ride I will certainly be in touch about performance upgrades.  I have half a mind to ship you my whole damn bike, but we'll see.

Exciting stuff.  Good luck.

Boggy
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tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2014, 07:46:39 PM »
Hi 2CV,

I had the same thought as you.  I just purchased a normal IB throttle cable for the VM series carbs (TM/VM cables use the same ball at the end).  However, that Sudco cable that Ace recommended looks WAY better. 

Based on what I've read, a few folks have used the angled cable adjuster and others haven't.  Seems to work either way and i'll be without it as it all lines up for me ok. 

How about the spring in the TM?  Like wrestling a greased up weasel trying to stuff it all back in, eh?

            I've pretty much decided to order the Sudco 021-947 cable that Ace recommends that has the correct ball on the end rather than fool with this stock BS-29 ball end, cutting the cable, cutting the housing & getting the free cable dimension right. PITA. May also go ahead & get an angled top tube, too. It just seems better to me for zero binding.

            Yes. You've got to hold your face right to get that spring back in   ;)

             The needle holder is easier in & out; no spring under it makes the screws way easier to install. No tweezers necessary. The needle is a 5-groove # 5 FP 17 with the clip in the center groove. 

              It has a D or O 52 Main Jet which I don't see on the parts diagram. And I don't find this needle part number either. I'm still not clear on the jets on this thing. What the hell are "Starter Jets"?  And the idle speed thingy works on the inclined plane idea. Pretty cool.
2008 ACE Head AVL Classic
1977 Shovelhead Hardtail Bobber

ace.cafe

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2014, 10:10:12 PM »
I have your baseline port low test results. I will post it when I get home.

Some of the info I reported previously on the port size was erroneous because something was wrong with my caliper and it was reading wrong. The port size is big, but not THAT big. Mondello's thinks they can port it to flow faster without filling the floor.

Regarding the jets for the TM32,  good starting point for jetting is:
30 pilot (22/210 type)
P4 needle jet (389 type)
Stock 5fp17 needle in middle position
195 main jet (4/042 type)

That will get you in the neighborhood.  You may have to do some changes for temperature changes.

We will install our alloy manifold on your head for mounting the TM32.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 10:19:11 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AcePerformanceBullets/info

tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2014, 12:09:52 AM »
I have your baseline port low test results. I will post it when I get home.

Some of the info I reported previously on the port size was erroneous because something was wrong with my caliper and it was reading wrong. The port size is big, but not THAT big. Mondello's thinks they can port it to flow faster without filling the floor.

Regarding the jets for the TM32,  good starting point for jetting is:
30 pilot (22/210 type)
P4 needle jet (389 type)
Stock 5fp17 needle in middle position
195 main jet (4/042 type)

That will get you in the neighborhood.  You may have to do some changes for temperature changes.

We will install our alloy manifold on your head for mounting the TM32.

           Awright. Sounds good. Can't wait to hear more & I'm sure others will be interested also.

           I looked more carefully at the carb later this afternoon & finally it all came clear. I couldn't find the pilot jet. Finally found it. They have put a large plastic & brass collar around the main jet. You have to remove the main jet out which lets you remove the collar. Then you can see the pilot jet at the bottom of a long tube & remove it. You cannot see it or remove it without pulling the main jet first. And I also know what 'starter jets' are now.

          I like the way the floats ride up & down on their own little pins.
          I'll have to get used to the mixture screw being an air screw; CW rich, CCW lean. It arrived 1 1/2 turns out.
          And the idle speed screw is the coolest I've ever seen.
 
          What's in there now is:
                   Main jet:     #250
                   Pilot Jet:     #45
                   Needle:       #5 FP 17 clip in middle of 5 grooves
                   Needle Jet:  #Q2
           I'll order some jets with the throttle cable.
2008 ACE Head AVL Classic
1977 Shovelhead Hardtail Bobber

ace.cafe

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2014, 12:34:59 AM »
The only pain in the ass with the TM32 is that it only comes with the cold starting knob on the left side. This is a bit awkward to operate because it is way under the tank. If this is a problem that is too irritating,  then Sudco makes a conversion kit to change the knob to a cable connection, and it can be cable operated with a handlebar mounted choke lever. You have to buy all the parts separately,  but it can be done.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AcePerformanceBullets/info

tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2014, 01:24:31 AM »
The only pain in the ass with the TM32 is that it only comes with the cold starting knob on the left side. This is a bit awkward to operate because it is way under the tank. If this is a problem that is too irritating,  then Sudco makes a conversion kit to change the knob to a cable connection, and it can be cable operated with a handlebar mounted choke lever. You have to buy all the parts separately,  but it can be done.

           That won't bother me a bit. The BS-29 richener is on the left.

            I never ride in the cold now & don't even like it cool so I very seldom ever had to use the richener on the BS-29. I had it just a hair rich I think & it always started with one or two kicks all last season, no richener. Maybe three kicks for the first start if it was a cool morning, no richener.

             I sometimes had to fondle the throttle for 30 seconds, but then it would idle on its own. I realize the TM might act different not being a CV.
2008 ACE Head AVL Classic
1977 Shovelhead Hardtail Bobber