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Author Topic: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread  (Read 7974 times)

tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #75 on: February 15, 2014, 06:01:24 PM »
That's what these are for.  They clean old gasket material in 10 seconds.  We go through a box every 2 or 3 weeks at the Subaru shop.

Scottie J

           All done in 10 minutes this morning after a Goo-Gone douche overnight.
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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #76 on: February 15, 2014, 08:44:05 PM »
           All done in 10 minutes this morning after a Goo-Gone douche overnight.

LMAO  Literally  ;D
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tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #77 on: February 20, 2014, 04:08:10 PM »
    Well, it's really warm here today & yesterday so I've been doing odds & ends.

    Yesterday I wrapped both hand grips & both levers with black cloth harness tape. They get very slick on a sweaty day 'specially in traffic.

    This morning I put the sleeve back on the exhaust valve lifter that holds the valve open; the AVL version of a compression release. This sleeve is captured on the lifter by a tiny circlip. It's a real SOB to get on; very fiddley & a tiny work area. After a half hour of trying to stay cool & remembering my old zen & TM days I finally got the look on my face just right ;D & it slipped on.

       There must be tool for these tiny damn things.
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tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #78 on: February 23, 2014, 01:23:33 PM »

Regarding the jets for the TM32,  good starting point for jetting is:
30 pilot (22/210 type)
P4 needle jet (389 type)
Stock 5fp17 needle in middle position
195 main jet (4/042 type)
That will get you in the neighborhood.  You may have to do some changes for temperature changes.

           I've switched the jets in the TM-32 from what it comes with to your recommendations above as a starting point.

           I have a question just for my own info: What's the difference to the engine switching from a Q-2 to a P-4 needle jet? Is it just a matter of the P-4 being richer (with the clip in any given groove) than the Q-2? And what's the difference between a Q & a P jet?

           I also have to make the switch in my brain about the mixture screw. The BS 29 was CCW richer being a fuel screw. The TM 32 is CW richer being an air screw. 
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ace.cafe

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2014, 01:40:08 PM »
           I've switched the jets in the TM-32 from what it comes with to your recommendations above as a starting point.

           I have a question just for my own info: What's the difference to the engine switching from a Q-2 to a P-4 needle jet? Is it just a matter of the P-4 being richer (with the clip in any given groove) than the Q-2? And what's the difference between a Q & a P jet?

           I also have to make the switch in my brain about the mixture screw. The BS 29 was CCW richer being a fuel screw. The TM 32 is CW richer being an air screw.

The P4 is a leaner needle jet by a large amount. Q jets are a richer jet series than P jets. Lower letters and numbers are leaner, and get richer as you go up.  The range in the P series is P0, P2, P4, P6, P8, and then you get to Q0, Q2,...etc.
The needle jet is the primary fuel regulator from 1/4 to 1/2 throttle, along with some help from the needle. From 1/2 throttle to 3/4 throttle, the needle is the primary regulator, along with some help from the needle jet. In other words, the needle jet has stronger effect than the needle does at throttle settings below half throttle, and the needle has stronger effect at throttle settings more than half throttle. At half throttle, they have about the same effect. So, when you do your plug chops to check mixture at the different throttle positions, you know what to adjust.

You are correct about the air screw direction. The normal starting point for beginning the tune-up is the screw is 1.5 turns out from the fully in position. Any adjustment that is more than 3 turns out has gone beyond the adjustment range, and the next leaner jet needs to be installed, and start the screw process again. If the engine runs(doesn't die) with the screw fully in, then it needs the next richer jet, and start the screw adjustment process again.
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tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #80 on: February 23, 2014, 02:13:37 PM »
The P4 is a leaner needle jet by a large amount. Q jets are a richer jet series than P jets. Lower letters and numbers are leaner, and get richer as you go up.  The range in the P series is P0, P2, P4, P6, P8, and then you get to Q0, Q2,...etc.


             Olord  :) Of course. I should have realized that; the higher up in the alphabet, the richer the jet. Thanks.
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tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #81 on: February 23, 2014, 02:28:31 PM »

The needle jet is the primary fuel regulator from 1/4 to 1/2 throttle, along with some help from the needle. From 1/2 throttle to 3/4 throttle, the needle is the primary regulator, along with some help from the needle jet. In other words, the needle jet has stronger effect than the needle does at throttle settings below half throttle, and the needle has stronger effect at throttle settings more than half throttle. At half throttle, they have about the same effect. So, when you do your plug chops to check mixture at the different throttle positions, you know what to adjust.

You are correct about the air screw direction. The normal starting point for beginning the tune-up is the screw is 1.5 turns out from the fully in position. Any adjustment that is more than 3 turns out has gone beyond the adjustment range, and the next leaner jet needs to be installed, and start the screw process again. If the engine runs(doesn't die) with the screw fully in, then it needs the next richer jet, and start the screw adjustment process again.

            Yup. I'm clear on all of this, but thanks for laying it all out so clearly.

             I learned a lot about these kinds of carbs from working with the BS-29 CV the bike came with. I really like them both (the BS & the TM). I enjoy taking them apart and putting them together.

             I was mostly used to S&S carbs on harleys before I got this RE. That's a really excellent, simple, very tuneable, highly perfected for the job, carb. Most people who bitch about them don't read the F-ing manual or have intake leaks or something else wrong with the basic engine or tuneup that's NOT carb related. 
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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #82 on: February 23, 2014, 03:00:02 PM »
....Most people who bitch about them don't read the F-ing manual or have intake leaks or something else wrong with the basic engine or tuneup that's NOT carb related. 

Like when I was on a bike cruise last summer and the one guy had to trailer his Hog back home because he just mounted his carb to the intake and never actually bolted it to anything and the carb kept falling right off?  LOL  ;D

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ace.cafe

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #83 on: February 23, 2014, 03:01:21 PM »
Most carbs are okay, once you get used to working with them.
CV carbs are the least fussy because once they are set, the are pretty much self - adjusting for changing conditions. But, they are not as good for outright performance.

S & S is sort of like a side - draft version of a carb like was used on American cars with a booster and a butterfly valve. That is a typical vintage type layout for feeding multiple cylinders from the same carb.

IMHO,  the individual runner inlet system is the highest performance type, with an individual port and individual manifold, and individual carb for each cylinder. At least, that would be for normally aspirated systems. For blown applications, it's common to use a plenum system.
With singles, it's always an individual runner system because we only have one.
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tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #84 on: February 27, 2014, 11:57:46 PM »
      Does anyone out there have a couple of the hardened steel washers that go under the head stud nuts that they might want to give up?

      The two inner ones on my AVL were missing - from Day One, I think. These machined hardened washers need to be under your nuts or they don't seat properly.

      CMW doesn't have them so I'm not jeopardizing a sale.  These are Part #500321 in the AVL parts book.

       PS: No, my head's not back home yet   :(

       PPS: A Joe Mondello car was sold on Mecum the other day. A 442, I believe, with a 600+HP engine.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 12:05:03 AM by tooseevee »
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DanB

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #85 on: February 28, 2014, 12:36:40 AM »
Hi 2CV,

I don't have them... But, I scoped these out at my local true value (automotive, hardened washers). I don't know the size, but if you're in a pinch let me know and the appropriate size. I'll grab a few and post them.
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tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #86 on: February 28, 2014, 02:25:39 AM »
Hi 2CV,

I don't have them... But, I scoped these out at my local true value (automotive, hardened washers). I don't know the size, but if you're in a pinch let me know and the appropriate size. I'll grab a few and post them.

            Don't make a special trip, but when you're there next check them out & I'll do the same here.

            The diameter is more important than the thickness; they have to fit into a milled recess. They are 5/8" (0.625") O.D. and 0.060" thick. I'm not sure what the hole is - 5/16"?
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Arizoni

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #87 on: February 28, 2014, 05:04:03 AM »
2CV
I looked at Hitchcocks AVL parts list and couldn't find any hardened washers.
I did find 6 stainless steel washers that go under the cylinder head nuts.

In any case, why do they have to be hardened washers?
There is nothing moving against them that would create wear and hardening a piece of steel does not change the degree it will bend under load.  The modulus of elasticity of steel remains the same regardless of its hardness.

The Hitchcock site shows the nuts as M8 X 1.25 so the body diameter of the studs would be 8mm or .315 inches (5/16" for all practical purposes).

A regular 5/16" washer in the US will be about 3/4" in diameter.
There is a 17/64 ID and a 9/32 ID washer that is 5/8 outside diameter but they might be hard to find.
Finding a 1/4" ID washer with an outside diameter of 9/16" should be pretty easy and drilling out the hole to 5/16" would allow it to work fine.
Using it sure would be better than using nothing at all. :)
Jim
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tooseevee

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #88 on: February 28, 2014, 01:11:42 PM »
2CV
I looked at Hitchcocks AVL parts list and couldn't find any hardened washers.
I did find 6 stainless steel washers that go under the cylinder head nuts.

              Those are the ones I need for the AVL. 4 were there, two were missing. Hitchcocks seems to list them for the ironhead, but not the AVL.  ??

In any case, why do they have to be hardened washers?
There is nothing moving against them that would create wear and hardening a piece of steel does not change the degree it will bend under load.  The modulus of elasticity of steel remains the same regardless of its hardness.

The Hitchcock site shows the nuts as M8 X 1.25 so the body diameter of the studs would be 8mm or .315 inches (5/16" for all practical purposes).

A regular 5/16" washer in the US will be about 3/4" in diameter.
There is a 17/64 ID and a 9/32 ID washer that is 5/8 outside diameter but they might be hard to find.
Finding a 1/4" ID washer with an outside diameter of 9/16" should be pretty easy and drilling out the hole to 5/16" would allow it to work fine.
Using it sure would be better than using nothing at all. :)

           *I* didn't decide *I* wanted hardened washers for under the cylinder head nuts. RE decided that & that is what's under the nuts on my AVL head & that's what's in the CMW catalog for ironheads & also in Hitchcock's. I don't know why they're not listed for AVL; they're in the AVL parts book, part #500321. They're in the CMW catalog for the older engines, not AVL. Page 13, Part #Z91008.

             These appear to be machined & hardened washers; they're not just regular washers out of the hardware store drawers. I read an analysis somewhere about why they're there but I can't recall where I read it.
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ace.cafe

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Re: Tooseevee's AVL upgrade thread
« Reply #89 on: March 09, 2014, 10:12:51 PM »
We are still waiting for Mondello's to clear out this nitro burning fuel dragster engine they have to finish before they can get back on our stuff.
We have to share the schedule.
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