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Author Topic: another VTwin option  (Read 900 times)

RGT

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another VTwin option
« on: January 21, 2014, 03:06:03 PM »

barenekd

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2014, 06:37:30 PM »
What is the hangup on a V-Twin?
Bare
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ace.cafe

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2014, 09:25:11 PM »
What is the hangup on a V-Twin?
Bare

It's the easiest way to make a twin by using the available parts from the single.
To make a parallel twin would need more custom castings for a new twin head and twin barrels, which would dramatically increase the cost of the project.
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AgentX

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2014, 06:48:47 PM »
What is the hangup on a V-Twin?
Bare
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barenekd

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2014, 08:21:27 PM »
Now that'll take some work to get an Enfield engine turned to be like mine! I just wonder why no one will accept a vertical twin like Enfields used, and that they're more likely to produce. They didn't offer V-twins except very early in their existence.
bare
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cyrusb

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2014, 08:22:41 PM »
They are nice and narrow. The only "Hangup" I have found is actually buying the damn cases.

ace.cafe

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2014, 08:31:12 PM »
Now that'll take some work to get an Enfield engine turned to be like mine! I just wonder why no one will accept a vertical twin like Enfields used, and that they're more likely to produce. They didn't offer V-twins except very early in their existence.
bare

I think people would accept the vertical twin just fine.
It's just too costly for anyone but the factory to get involved in making one.
People on a budget take the path of least resistance and least cost.
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AgentX

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2014, 10:11:48 PM »
! I just wonder why no one will accept a vertical twin like Enfields used

Its nonexistence is a probable factor...

Plus, when they do finally make one, it'll be a 1980s tech UCE thing, without the raw appeal of the older bikes on which the V-Twins are based, yet without the refined manufacture and performance of a more modern machine made elsewhere in the world.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 10:14:21 PM by AgentX »

ace.cafe

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2014, 11:28:15 PM »
Its nonexistence is a probable factor...

Plus, when they do finally make one, it'll be a 1980s tech UCE thing, without the raw appeal of the older bikes on which the V-Twins are based, yet without the refined manufacture and performance of a more modern machine made elsewhere in the world.

This is a very sensitive subject which is underlying the "retro" offerings. It is important to not look too deeply, or it interferes with the retro aura, which is basically a marketing image. In fact, it is correct that it is not vintage, and it is not modern. It is basically leaning on the retro styling to "excuse" the fact that it has low power, but it's a brand new power plant that should have plenty of power to compete in its weight class.

Somehow they are going to have to overcome this power deficit.
I often wonder why they have never attempted to contact me. We obviously have the answers to this.
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cyrusb

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2014, 11:54:01 PM »
I just wonder why no one will accept a vertical twin like Enfields used, and that they're more likely to produce.

They were accepted, 60 years ago, and were found wanting. The market spoke, and that was that.

High On Octane

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2014, 12:06:40 AM »
My 2 cents is that you can fit CONSIDERABLY more displacement in a V-twin that you can a parallel twin.  Due to size restraints, you can only fit so big of a cylinder on a parallel twin, where as a V-twin the cylinders are apart from each other which allow you to use a much bigger cylinder.  Essentially as big as you want to go.

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cyrusb

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2014, 12:25:39 AM »
Scottie, absolutely true. The largest production vert twin I can think of is the old Laverda 1000 Jota. Can't think of any larger. Another problem with vert twins is vibration. The british pattern tandem twins shook like big singles, and the 180 deg. Japanese twins suffered from rocking couple vibes. Edit:Jota was a triple. Maybe the largest was a Norton? Anybody?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 12:35:05 AM by cyrusb »

High On Octane

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2014, 12:31:21 AM »
Just for fun, here's the world's largest V-twin.  410CI, that's larger than a small block Chevy V8.

http://thekneeslider.com/gunbus-410-cubic-inch-v-twin-motorcycle-completed/

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ChrisS

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2014, 01:14:07 AM »
"old Laverda 1000 Jota. Can't think of any larger."

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cyrusb

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2014, 01:17:04 AM »
Yikes! Does anyone own one? Whats that like? EDIT: Found this. "With a 13.37 second pass at 101.17mph, it could only muster the fourth-quickest time. Its big end of the speedo performance also hurt its 0-100-0mph time at 18.54 seconds. So the torquey nature of the Storm fooled us into thinking it was faster than it really is". How can almost 1700cc's perform this badly?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 01:34:51 AM by cyrusb »

Chasfield

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2014, 11:33:16 AM »
Those really big twins tend to be ludicrously overweight, like you are hauling a passenger and sidecar along even when riding solo.
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High On Octane

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2014, 12:44:17 PM »
Those really big twins tend to be ludicrously overweight, like you are hauling a passenger and sidecar along even when riding solo.

Weight isn't an issue when you have over 100hp at the crank.  Though I personally prefer a smaller bike.  Not a big fan of anything much bigger than a 1000cc.

Scottie
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heloego

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2014, 02:53:44 PM »
Quote
Not a big fan of anything much bigger than a 1000cc.

+1
Though I really like the looks of the V-Twin and had considered getting a HD 883, the thing is just too heavy for me (knees are going). Not keen on the idea of falling over at a light.  ;D
Rather than have a homeless person for the holidays, I decided to stick with ham.

ace.cafe

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2014, 08:13:47 PM »
I talked with Aniket on the phone last night for a couple hours.
Release of the Musket crankcase kits is imminent.
Might even be announced today.

I'm not going to steal the thunder of the announcement, so I won't reveal the prices until he officially announces them.

It's finally happening!
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barenekd

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2014, 08:14:41 PM »
Quote
Weight isn't an issue when you have over 100hp at the crank.

Yes, it is. You still have to hold up and maneuver that extra weight. Especially those top heavy Hardley 883s. I rode an 1961 883 that was about 100 pounds lighter years ago. In fact, I almost bought it to race scrambles with, but sanity regained control and I bought a Bultaco Pursang instead. About 250 pounds lighter.
Bare
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High On Octane

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2014, 08:48:45 PM »
Bare - Are you not familiar with the Honda RVT?
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cyrusb

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2014, 12:50:00 AM »



It's finally happening!
And this is great news! I hope the website gets into more detail now. I really need to see exactly what has to be done to the frame, how to adjust lifters, etc.  Again, great news.

cyrusb

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2014, 02:23:24 AM »
I really like the way Carberry did the frame.

High On Octane

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2014, 03:42:49 AM »
Holy crap that looks nice!  REAL nice!   8)

Scottie
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ace.cafe

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2014, 09:58:47 AM »
I really like the way Carberry did the frame.

You can do a dual front down tube on the Musket to avoid that curved tube that Aniket used. Aniket just didn't want to have any tube partially blocking the view of his engine. The frame can be done many ways.
We just made contact with a guy who makes featherbed frames, and is willing to make them be a custom fit for the Musket. The Musket was made for an open cradle frame, so there were no restrictions on the dimensions of the bottom of the engine shape. On a closed loop frame, this could have interferences with fit, so it is very nice to have a frame builder who will build the frame to fit the engine.
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Chasfield

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2014, 10:34:45 AM »
The Featherbed frame is good, but not so good that a poorly executed engine installation will work properly in it. I have seen a couple of v-twin Featherbed specials (Harley and Vincent) that looked like they were carrying the engine too high for sweet handling.

You don't want to finish up with a bike that falls into corners like a loaded wheelbarrow.
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ace.cafe

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2014, 12:41:16 PM »
The Featherbed frame is good, but not so good that a poorly executed engine installation will work properly in it. I have seen a couple of v-twin Featherbed specials (Harley and Vincent) that looked like they were carrying the engine too high for sweet handling.

You don't want to finish up with a bike that falls into corners like a loaded wheelbarrow.
That's right.
That's why I mentioned that this frame maker would make the frame specifically to fit the engine, so that it can sit as low as necessary.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Chuck D

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2014, 01:53:24 PM »
You can do a dual front down tube on the Musket to avoid that curved tube that Aniket used. Aniket just didn't want to have any tube partially blocking the view of his engine. The frame can be done many ways.
We just made contact with a guy who makes featherbed frames, and is willing to make them be a custom fit for the Musket. The Musket was made for an open cradle frame, so there were no restrictions on the dimensions of the bottom of the engine shape. On a closed loop frame, this could have interferences with fit, so it is very nice to have a frame builder who will build the frame to fit the engine.
Really!?
Mild steel or the good stuff like maybe Reynolds 531?
Hmmnnn... ;)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 01:57:31 PM by Chuck D »
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barenekd

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2014, 07:34:15 PM »
Quote
Bare - Are you not familiar with the Honda RVT?

Yeah, I'm familiar with it. Kinda the Superbike version of the Honda Super Hawk. A friend I rode with a lot had a Super Hawk. He raced at Willow Springs quite successfully, so was quite fast. I chased him through the canyons with my Yamaha ThunderAce and finally got to where I could keep up with him. As far as the bike went, it used about 50% more gas than the Yamaha did and was very short ranged. I have another friend a Super Hawk that I've ridden several times. It's a nice bike, but the range is still an issue with that. The RC51s were way out of my price range, so I never had much interest in them.
I had a Ducati for a couple of years just before that. I had a Suzuki VX800 that got T-boned by a Buick and the Suzuki was replaced immediately with a Honda Hawk, then after the crash settlement was complete, that took a year or so, got me the Ducati. Sold it in '96. My V-twin appetite was sated. The only one I really liked, but not in the top 5, was the Honda. Just no soul! You hafta understand that my interest in the Sportster was in 1966. No Hardley interest since. No more V-twins until the Guzzi. That one is, by far, the best V-Twin I've owned. A most underrated motorcycle. They pretty much fall in the Enfield category as being unknown!
Bare
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ace.cafe

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2014, 07:51:52 PM »
Really!?
Mild steel or the good stuff like maybe Reynolds 531?
Hmmnnn... ;)
Hi Chuck,
He can do either one. Your choice.
The chrome - moly is lighter, but more prone to cracking.
The mild steel is a bit heavier but not likely to crack.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Chuck D

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Re: another VTwin option
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2014, 12:02:53 AM »
Thanks, Tom. But I was only being semi serious although I'd be lying if I said the thought never crossed my mind before. It's so easy to get caught up in the upgrade frenzy especially when there is so much genuinely exciting stuff happening now with our bikes. I think the best years of the iron barrel bullet are still ahead of us.
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