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Author Topic: Valve guide removal  (Read 522 times)

mattjohnson207

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Valve guide removal
« on: January 21, 2014, 11:47:42 PM »
In my attempt  to remove the worn exhaust valve guide, I used a punch,  the protubing part of the guide shattered, the rest is stuck in there.  The heat sensor said the head was 250 f
      Suggestions?
           Matt in Glendale
          2009 AVL

ERC

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Re: Valve guide removal
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2014, 11:52:56 PM »
I've never done an AVL but on the twin cylinder heads I've done. You can heat the head then press the out.   ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

mattjohnson207

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Re: Valve guide removal
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2014, 12:00:10 AM »
Success...got a bigger hammer...don't know if that was the right thing to do, marked the bore a little...
I have a valve spring compressor from Nfield  gear...do I press it in with that?

ace.cafe

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Re: Valve guide removal
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2014, 12:30:28 AM »
Heat the head to 300*F and push it in.
Put the valve guide in the freezer overnight before you do it.
The hot expanded head, and the frozen contracted valve guide should be easy to push in.
Do it quickly before the temps change.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Adrian

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Re: Valve guide removal
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2014, 04:39:22 PM »
For extracting the valve guide you could probably come up with a screw extractor using a long 1/4"  allen screw or HT bolt and a drilled chunk of square section 1" steel, though you would still need to get the head good and hot.

A.

mattjohnson207

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Re: Valve guide removal
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2014, 05:04:44 PM »
Thanks A&A....bunged it up...glad those valve guides are cheap. Sent for the Nfield gear valve guide install tool and a new valve guide
         Let ya know how it works
                Thanks, Matt

ERC

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Re: Valve guide removal
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2014, 08:12:38 PM »
Ace is right on the money with what he said about heat and cold. Get it to the right temp and they drop in. Your best bet is have an accurate gauge to read the temp. 10-20 degrees lower and it won't go in easy.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

Vince

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Re: Valve guide removal
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2014, 09:13:25 PM »
     An average machine shop would replace the guide and cut new seats true to the guide for between $10 to $20 per guide.

ERC

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Re: Valve guide removal
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2014, 11:51:47 PM »
That's funny every shop I contacted in my area wouldn't even touch a motorcycle head, never mind one they never heard of. That's why I bought all the stuff to do them myself. ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

Vince

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Re: Valve guide removal
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2014, 05:31:26 PM »
     Wow. I have trouble understanding this. I don't do this in house because it isn't worth the investment for the few I do, but there are several local machine shops that know how to relate a guide job from a car to a motorcycle. It's not rocket science, but it is a precision machine operation. I would not patronize a shop that is so picky or unknowing. You obviously have the skill and know how to do the job. Not everyone has that skill set.
     My concerns with a home job are many. Perhaps greatest is that improperly installed guides have a tendency to come out of the head in use, especially if not reamed after installation. All guides distort to some degree upon installation. This can cause valve stem seizure in the unreamed guide.   
     I always look for long term use with a repair. This usually involves having something like this done professionally. Certainly one of the pleasures of owning an Enfield is performing our own work. I encourage my riders to take on most regular maintenance. Guide work is not on my list of regular maintenance.

barenekd

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Re: Valve guide removal
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2014, 07:50:31 PM »
Quote
I have a valve spring compressor from Nfield  gear...do I press it in with that?

The valve spring compressor is just for compressing the valve spring so you can put the keepers back on. They do nothing for valve guides. Temperature and a punch that fits the valve guide are the installation tools. Once you get  the guide in and everything has cooled of, you'll need a reamer of the proper size to ream the guide to the right clearance for the valve stem. Sorry, I don't have the size for that but it should be in the service manual. I don't have an AVL manual.
Bare
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 06:33:23 PM by barenekd »
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mattjohnson207

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Re: Valve guide removal
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2014, 08:43:09 PM »
Thanks guys,  think I'll look for a shop, got one in mind, they did my old style decomp, and as I don't have a reamer...
         Does the guide have to be AVL  royal enfeild specific, or can a trust a qualified machinist to pick one out?
            Matt

ERC

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Re: Valve guide removal
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2014, 09:45:48 PM »
If the guy is qualified he could definitely find a guide to fit.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

ace.cafe

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Re: Valve guide removal
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2014, 11:34:02 PM »
I agree that an experienced and properly equipped shop would be best suited to do the job.

However, that being said, a lot of things are done to Bullets by the owners in the name of maintenance which will often work,  even if not ideal. Sometimes this works out fine if the owner has some knowledge, and can execute a semi - decent job.

Vince is correct that a good shop can do a guide job and valve job fairly reasonably priced, and it can avoid headaches in some cases.

Our practice is to make any guide we need from our bronze guide stock on the lathe. This allows us to customize the fit to the head individually, and it often costs less than buying an OEM guide and having it shipped in. We have every size guide reamer imaginable, so no problem there.
But, we do Bullet heads all the time, and we are very experienced.  Not every corner shop might be.

I would also recommend new stem seals when reassembling.  Check the valve springs and retainers and collets for proper fit and for wear.

You can do it yourself, but learn what to do, and execute well, and be honest with yourself if you are getting in over your head with any of it.

In India,  they just hammer these things into the head in the back yard, and go out and ride it to work. It's amazing how crude you can get away with on these bikes, but that doesn't mean that it is the right way to do things.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 11:36:53 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AcePerformanceBullets/info

Vince

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Re: Valve guide removal
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2014, 05:38:08 PM »
     Ace, that is my issue with most home repairs in general. I too have sees some incredible methods that returned a bike to service. The issue is longevity. A proper repair will offer a service life comparable to, or even better than new. Doing something such as hammering a guide into the head in your back yard may get you down the road today, but tomorrow the head may crack or the valve will seize or...
     Too often, a customer will have issue with the cost of repair that I quote. Then I get that same bike in a few months later with the same job plus all the issues the back yard repair caused. In my shop right now I have a Yamaha with a remote oil filter kit installed by an "expert buddy". He saved probably $85 on my install. It's costing $400+++ to repair the buddy's installation. I'm pretty sure the engine is salvageable.
     No one likes to spend money they don't "have to" but it really usually is more economical in the long term to job out more complex issues to a real pro.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 06:20:40 PM by Vince »