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Author Topic: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief  (Read 1077 times)

59 chief

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Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« on: January 24, 2014, 12:06:17 AM »
Doe's anyone know where I can get a gear box sprocket for a 59 indian chief? I'm told it was made only for the Chief. I bought one from Hitchcocks and it won't work. I have pic of this rear bird. It has worn teeth and one tooth is chipped. There's 20 teeth. I can email more pics. the file was to large.


« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 12:12:06 AM by 59 chief »

High On Octane

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Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

59 chief

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2014, 12:16:22 AM »
They said they don't have one for the Chief. I sent them pics and they said they dicontinued.

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2014, 12:25:34 AM »
Ummmmmmmm.......    ???

I'm not sure who you talked to but ALL the gear box sprockets are the same.  Compare the pic you just posted to the pic they have posted on the link I posted previously.  They're identical.  You will want to order either a 21 tooth or a 22 tooth as the 16" Chief wheel make the gearing extra short.

Scottie
Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

59 chief

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2014, 12:37:55 AM »
This is the difference in the one they sent me(Marked new) and the one I need.(marked old) Hitchcocks said they have H 49/20 and I need M 49/20
« Last Edit: January 24, 2014, 12:56:11 AM by 59 chief »

rotorwrench

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2014, 01:14:12 AM »
The Chief was the only big twin to have the 16-inch rims with the big tires. This is likely why it is spaced that far out. It seems I've heard someone mention this on either this site or the Britbike site before. There may be some out there but it will take some time to track an original down. It might be easier to check with a machine shop to see if they can whittle one out and get it heat treated to last a while. It's good you have an OEM part for a pattern. I see a lot of Albion gearboxes for Enfields on the flea pay but you will have to look for the AM series and see if it still has a sprocket thats not worn down too much. Only the Chiefs and the Apaches used the AM gearbox. Most Enfield twins use the H series Albion box. You can tell them apart by the shift cover shape.

High On Octane

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2014, 01:23:55 AM »
Oh man.  Am I going to have this problem with my Chief?  Can a spacer be made to be used with the standard sprocket?

Scottie
Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

59 chief

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2014, 01:35:26 AM »
I asked a shop with high tech equipment for an estimate to make one and they said $350. Each additional one was like $40.

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2014, 02:14:13 PM »
I know that there are at least 3 of us restoring a 59-60 Chief right now.  Maybe we can work out a group buy for those sprockets?  ???

Scottie
Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

ERC

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2014, 02:34:03 PM »
I just went out into the shop and looked at a Chief box and sprocket didn't stay to long very cold. But I don't see why you can't have a spacer made to use the new sprocket.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

High On Octane

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2014, 03:28:41 PM »
ERC - Does it look like you can just use a large steel bushing without the splines?

Scottie
Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

ERC

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2014, 03:47:46 PM »
Hi Scottie, It's to cold to go out  and compare but I'm pretty sure as long as the outside diameter is the same size and it fits the shaft tight.   ERC 
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

ERC

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2014, 04:26:41 PM »
They make a spacer for the gearbox sprocket on the new 4sp that may work.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

Sandgroper

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2014, 05:29:47 PM »
The standard H49 type sprocket will not fit an AM gearbox, which requires an  M49 sprocket. This has a larger internal bore, with different splining, to suit the different mainshaft sleeve in the AM. There is also a deeper recess on the front face of the sprocket to allow the securing nut to fit properly.
The current RE price list on the Burton Bike Bits website shows the M49/20 as available, but I have not asked them directly.
The 16" wheel doesn't overly affect the gearing as the diameter over the fat tyre is about the same as that on the larger-rimmed wheels used on other models.
Incidentally, only some of the Apaches used the AM 'box, others had the 'standard' Albion.

59 chief

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2014, 03:34:46 AM »
Sandgroper is correct. There is 6 splines on the original sprocket and 5 splines on the new one. So a bushing(or spacer) wouldn't work. I asked Burton bike and they said they don't have it either.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 05:46:22 AM by 59 chief »

ERC

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2014, 01:24:26 PM »
Sand is right to bad it's to cold in the shop, I could have looked and not made such a stupid statement.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2014, 01:55:41 PM »
Ummmmmmmm.......    ???

I'm not sure who you talked to but ALL the gear box sprockets are the same.  Compare the pic you just posted to the pic they have posted on the link I posted previously.  They're identical.  You will want to order either a 21 tooth or a 22 tooth as the 16" Chief wheel make the gearing extra short.

Scottie


ERC - Look at MY stupid ass statement.    :-X

In all seriousness, I just searched for a good half hour and there is NOTHING available for this particular sprocket.


I asked a shop with high tech equipment for an estimate to make one and they said $350. Each additional one was like $40.

I'll pull the sprocket off of my tranny and take it to a couple different machine shops this week and see if I can find a cheaper price.  My sprocket is worn pretty bad, but it's still intact.  There are probably a hundred different machine shops in the Denver metro, I'll talk to my Brit bike parts suppliers and see who those 2 recommend.  This is a bummer.  Just when I thought I was going to save a few bucks on my Bonneville build, now I have to have a custom sprocket made.   It never ends.  LOL  We should look into a group buy tho, it would save everyone some money.  And once the sprocket is tooled, future sprockets will be much cheaper the 2nd go round.

Scottie
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 02:03:38 PM by Scottie J »
Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

rotorwrench

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2014, 02:52:05 PM »
The AM gearbox was purchased for use in the manufacture of the 1959 models on but only the Chief and Apache were produced by that time frame. I've never owned a Chief to scope out in detail the final drive arrangement. A wider tire/wheel combo likey required spacing the final drive chain out just a bit more to clear the fat tire. I'll have to check my Apache & Chief parts list and see if they used the same front sprocket on the final drives. The Apache did have a ball ramp clutch so it may have had the same set up. I have a 59 Apache trany somewhere in my stuff but I'm pretty sure I don't have any Chief  stuff.

Scottie J, you might consider a change to an H type gearbox if you are using a narrower tire/combo like the Constellation and Interceptor used. It may not be quite as strong as the AM series gearbox but they were strong enough and can be converted back to the pushrod clutch of the later Interceptor models. The ball ramp clutch was not the best idea that Royal Enfield came up with. The H series are much easier to get parts for.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 03:03:20 PM by rotorwrench »

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2014, 04:35:16 PM »

Scottie J, you might consider a change to an H type gearbox if you are using a narrower tire/combo like the Constellation and Interceptor used. It may not be quite as strong as the AM series gearbox but they were strong enough and can be converted back to the pushrod clutch of the later Interceptor models. The ball ramp clutch was not the best idea that Royal Enfield came up with. The H series are much easier to get parts for.

Well, with all the problems I have with the Albion on The Blackhawk, and taking into consideration that I'm trying to lay down 100hp+ at the rear wheel, I really need the extra beefiness the AM gearbox provides.  I just assume have a custom sprocket made, even if it means dropping $350.

Scottie
Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

RE_Chief

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2014, 10:58:02 PM »
I would be keen to buy a rear sprocket too.  If a group build goes ahead would whoever organises it be able send one to Australia, I pay all costs of course.

Regards Charles
1955 Indian Tomahawk 500 twin
1958 Indian Chief 700 twin (SMPB 9002 the 2nd ever made)
1960 Indian Chief 700 twin
1964 Interceptor Mk1 750 twin
1967 Interceptor Mk1A 750 twin
1994 Bullet Deluxe 570 long stroke single

High On Octane

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2014, 11:29:29 PM »
I would be keen to buy a rear sprocket too.  If a group build goes ahead would whoever organises it be able send one to Australia, I pay all costs of course.

Regards Charles


I don't see that being a problem.   :)
Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

gunnerasch

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2014, 10:20:42 AM »
When looking for a gear maker...use the search terms "gear hobber", or Gear cutter. Not a lot of CNC shops can properly cut gears and then know enough about having them heat treated properly.

Gunner, machinist and machine tool repair

High On Octane

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2014, 12:32:05 PM »
When looking for a gear maker...use the search terms "gear hobber", or Gear cutter. Not a lot of CNC shops can properly cut gears and then know enough about having them heat treated properly.

Gunner, machinist and machine tool repair


Are you offering your services?  ???  ;)  Because well, damn it!  Someone needs to be making these damn sprockets!
Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

RE_Chief

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2014, 09:50:28 PM »
Rather than getting a new sprocket made, would it be possible to replace the main sleeve with one that is made to take the H49 sprocket?  You would then have a choice of 20T, 21T, or 22T sprockets.

Regards Charles
1955 Indian Tomahawk 500 twin
1958 Indian Chief 700 twin (SMPB 9002 the 2nd ever made)
1960 Indian Chief 700 twin
1964 Interceptor Mk1 750 twin
1967 Interceptor Mk1A 750 twin
1994 Bullet Deluxe 570 long stroke single

High On Octane

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2014, 06:31:34 PM »
Being that RE parts are very limited in sourcing, especially for the Twins, I have been looking at the possibilities of using other Brit bike parts .  Does anyone with more knowledge than me think that these sprockets will work with the AM gearbox for the Chief?

http://www.rgmnorton.co.uk/buy/commando-gearbox-sprocket-22-teeth-5-8-x-3-8_1059.htm

Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

RE_Chief

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2014, 08:58:55 PM »
Hi Scottie,

An Indian made main sleeve will fit on an Interceptor main shaft, I know as I have done this with my Interceptor.  I haven't pulled the gearbox apart on my Chief to test whether it will fit.  If it does then you can simply buy a drive sprocket from H's and you have a choice of T16-T22, however you would like to set it up.  I have asked someone more knowledgeable than myself about this and I hope to have confirmation one way or the other shortly.

Regards Charles
1955 Indian Tomahawk 500 twin
1958 Indian Chief 700 twin (SMPB 9002 the 2nd ever made)
1960 Indian Chief 700 twin
1964 Interceptor Mk1 750 twin
1967 Interceptor Mk1A 750 twin
1994 Bullet Deluxe 570 long stroke single

High On Octane

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2014, 10:36:57 PM »
Cool.  Keep me posted please.  :)
Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

ERC

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2014, 12:07:16 AM »
That'll be interesting to see Chief. I've got a tranny here but didn't feel like pulling the sprocket off to find out. I did the same thing that you did on a normal tranny myself.  ERC
2-57 Apaches, 2-57 Trailblazers, 60 Chief, 65 Interceptor, 2004 Bullet, 612 Bullet chopped.

RE_Chief

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Re: Gear box sprocket for a 59 Chief
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2014, 10:44:02 AM »
So the news isn't good Scottie.

Regards Charles

G'day Charles,I don't have any internals from an H-type Bullet or twin 'box to hand, but I seem to recall that the sleeve has 5 splines each end. The AM I had on the bench a few weeks ago had 6, both ends. If new sprockets are not available, I reckon you only have a few options: commission some, find a good used one, get an old sprocket retoothed, or fit a different 'box. The 'standard' Albion 4-speed 'box, with either pushrod or scissor clutch, as used on nearly all the other twins, will  [/color][/size]bolt straight in. If you do this, be prepared to address chain alignment and clearance issues if you are sticking with the fat 16" wheel and tyre.[/color][/font][/size]
Richard M[/color][/font][/font][/font]
1955 Indian Tomahawk 500 twin
1958 Indian Chief 700 twin (SMPB 9002 the 2nd ever made)
1960 Indian Chief 700 twin
1964 Interceptor Mk1 750 twin
1967 Interceptor Mk1A 750 twin
1994 Bullet Deluxe 570 long stroke single