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December 22, 2014, 10:51:42 PM

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Author Topic: Battery cable replacement  (Read 2358 times)

High On Octane

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2014, 01:54:57 PM »
I take it you are digging out the epoxy for the sole purpose of seeing what wire goes to what terminal on the relay?   ???

Scottie J
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mattsz

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2014, 05:00:21 PM »
Scottie-

Sorta, but I also haven't found anyone to corroborate my 5 wire solenoid story.  I kind of doubt that I have the only one - unless I'm just missing something obvious and the red wire in question somehow doesn't in fact go to the solenoid - but I have the pictures to prove it!

If I can't find out how to connect my 5 wires to a 4-wire solenoid, then I might just consider digging out the bedding junk and trying to put my new battery cables on the original solenoid - 'cause I ain't using the factory cables again, I'm tired of them breaking on the road!

All this could be answered, or at least made a little less murky, if it would just warm up enough for me to get out in the garage and do some proper wire tracing - but I'm a sissy deep down...

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2014, 05:10:19 PM »
Mattsz, I'm pretty sure the small red wire is the path from the battery to the whole system.  You can check this by disconnecting the square connector. I bet the piece attached to the solenoid reads 12v and if you turn the key absolutely nothing will work because you've detached the main power line.  I also bet there will be no continuity between the other two small lines and the red one.  The red one connects to the positive battery cable.

Scott

High On Octane

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2014, 05:12:22 PM »
Mattsz, I'm pretty sure the small red wire is the path from the battery to the whole system.  You can check this by disconnecting the square connector. I bet the piece attached to the solenoid reads 12v and if you turn the key absolutely nothing will work because you've detached the main power line.  I also bet there will be no continuity between the other two small lines and the red one.  The red one connects to the positive battery cable.

Scott

+1
Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

mattsz

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2014, 05:25:57 PM »
Sounds good to me, Scott, but that doesn't tell me how to connect the 5 wires going into my OEM solenoid to an aftermarket solenoid with 4 connections - does it?  ???

I have the feeling I'm missing something painfully obvious here...

High On Octane

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2014, 05:31:50 PM »
Mattz - I have the wiring diagram for the starter and charging circuit.  I was trying to post it but photobucket is down for maintenance.  I will get it posted as soon as possible.  What I CAN tell you now is that the red wire is in fact the main lead coming from the battery.  The blue/white and black wire go directly from the switch to the relay.  One wire (unsure of color) goes directly from the relay to the starter.  And then there is the mystery 5th wire........  I'm working on it.  ;)

Scottie J

EDIT:
  Looking back I see the wiring diagram was already posted a while ago.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 05:34:41 PM by High On Octane »
Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2014, 05:41:08 PM »
Yes it does!   The small red wire connects to the red battery lead.  The other big lead goes to the starter, the two small wires go to the solenoid trigger.   

Scott
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 09:51:44 PM by Ducati Scotty »

High On Octane

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2014, 06:07:23 PM »
I can't find anything on a 5 wire RE but I did find this generic 5 wire diagram.  I have a feeling that the "extra" red wire with the plug or fusible link on it either goes to the clutch switch, neutral switch or side stand switch.



Scottie J
Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

gashousegorilla

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2014, 12:41:38 AM »
  I'm thinking....the extra red wire on the relay , is just a convenient junction point to grab power from the line from the battery. Instead of connecting directly TO the battery.  It MAY feed your fusees... through the ignition switch... It's a common thing to do on older bikes.

 I'm thinking.... The Blue wire is the hot from the starter button, and the white wire is ground, Probably from the clutch or neutral switch.  These wires energize the coil in the relay and pulls in the contacts , connecting the battery to the starter.

 
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 01:29:04 AM by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

mattsz

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2014, 11:02:18 PM »
Scotty (Ducati) - I see what you're saying now.  If your assumption is correct, it should be easy to verify with my VOM.  If that small red wire has continuity with the battery lead... then I can do an end run around the 4 connection points on the universal unit.  The small red wire AND the big red wire go to the battery...

Scottie (J) - aside from the color differences between the diagram and my bike, it's looking more like that red wire is just grabbing +12v for something else altogether.  Again, some quality time with my wiring will confirm this - or possibly some questionable time with tools to rip apart the old potted solenoid.  For starters, I'm hoping to do the former, but we've got record cold temps ahead...  >:(

GHG - perfectly plausible.  According to my diagram, there should be a blue/white wire (actually plain blue?) bringing +12v through the "kill switch" and starter button to the solenoid; a black wire (actually white?) leaving the solenoid and heading to ground through the neutral switch, or the clutch switch, which bypasses the neutral switch and goes right to ground.  And of course, the big battery/starter cables.  The small red wire serves no function in the starter circuit, that I can see...

I think I'll just stop fretting about this until I get a chance to do some wire-diving...

mattsz

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2014, 06:41:34 PM »
Well, it reached 23℉ in my garage, so I spent a couple of minutes by the bike.  The small red wire has continuity with the main battery cable, so it's very possible that it's just a +12v feed and I don't have to worry about exactly where it goes inside there.

The white wire matches the functionality of the diagram's black clutch switch wire - when looking for continuity between the white relay wire and ground, I get none until the clutch is pulled in, or the tranny is in neutral - or both.  I didn't test for continuity between the blue relay wire and the positive battery terminal (through, as the diagram shows, the ignition switch, kill switch and starter switch) since I didn't have the key with me.

So on the surface of it, it appears that a "universally wired" motorcycle solenoid will do in this case, and the small red wire disappearing into the sealed OEM solenoid is a red herring.  I'll have to double check where it leads and decide where to connect it - probably at the solenoid, just like I'm guessing it is now!

gashousegorilla

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2014, 07:41:44 PM »
  Unplug the red wire from the relay.... Then turn on the key. If everything on the bike is dead, it's likely supplying power to everthing through the ignition switch.
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

mattsz

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2014, 08:34:26 PM »
Its a pretty skinny wire - but it could be doing so.  I'll add that idea to my electrical plans for when I get things going again - my new battery is in the basement!

gashousegorilla

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2014, 09:39:52 PM »
Its a pretty skinny wire - but it could be doing so.


 And we are surprised by that ,why ?   ???  ;)    What I'm thinking is...... That red wire is "fused".  It supplies the main fuse.... from the main fuse, to the ignition switch.... from the ignition switch to the other two fuses for the other two circuits.

 
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

mattsz

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #44 on: March 07, 2014, 12:08:46 PM »
And we are surprised by that ,why ?   ???  ;)

Well, I dunno!  No reason, other than I'm surprised that everything on the bike but the starter circuit would be running off that one small wire - all the power draw, and the charging.  Don't the electrons bump into each other as they cross?

As I look at the diagram, yet again, I see now that indeed there is only one wire feeding the whole system, and that's gotta be it.  It shows all the fuses "before" the ignition switch, but they're there.

Seems like this must be the answer - took awhile, huh?  I know it's a lot of dope slaps, but think of the exercise you guys have been getting!



Here's another question, while we're on the subject of the UCE wiring diagram - do any of you guys have one you can read?  Mine shows power coming (through that little red wire!) right from the battery, through a fuse and into a switched terminal of the "power relay".  The energized relay sends that power on to the fuel pump relay and the EFI system.  This relay's coil gets power from the battery through the ignition switch and the "kill" switch.  The negative end of the "power relay" coil feeds a switched terminal of a second relay, labeled "PG" (Power Ground?).

It's this second relay that has me flummoxed.  The other switched "PG" terminal leads to ground, so the "power relay" won't energize unless the "PG" relay is also energized - I get this.  The "PG" relay coil gets power from the same source as the "power relay", but the negative end of its coil leads to ground (the same ground from the previous sentence), through the side stand switch.

This is what I don't get - why the second relay?  As far as I can see, the only thing it's doing is protecting the side stand switch from is the power relay's energizing current, which would be identical to the the "PG" relay's energizing current anyway, so it's redundant.  Isn't it?

Also - according to the diagram, simply disconnecting the side stand switch would prevent the "PG" relay's coil path from reaching ground, so the "power relay" would never be energized - and as we know, this isn't the case.

I know, this is wordy and makes no sense without the diagram to look at - but if anybody does, would you care to try to enlighten me on what's with this double-relay circuitry?

Edit: Here's a snippet below...