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December 23, 2014, 05:19:21 AM

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Author Topic: Battery cable replacement  (Read 2364 times)

High On Octane

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #45 on: March 07, 2014, 12:24:35 PM »
To answer your last question, my guess is that they used an extra relay so they could use smaller diameter wire in the wire harness itself.  On circuits that actually power something, it is common to use smaller wire (because it's more affordable and easier to wire into a big harness) and run it into a relay, and then using a bigger single wire from the power feed output of the relay.  That's what I'm thinking anyways.

Scottie J
Scottie J  ~  Bulldog Kustoms Denver  ~  1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer  ~  1959 Enfield/Indian Chief

mattsz

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2014, 01:47:27 PM »
I agree with you Scottie, but that's the strange part - that second relay seems to have the same shit going through it as the first one.  Same juice going through both coils, and the "power" feed of the second relay is also carrying the "smaller wire" coil current from the first - it looks unnecessary...

gashousegorilla

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #47 on: March 07, 2014, 02:17:39 PM »
Well, I dunno!  No reason, other than I'm surprised that everything on the bike but the starter circuit would be running off that one small wire - all the power draw, and the charging.  Don't the electrons bump into each other as they cross?

As I look at the diagram, yet again, I see now that indeed there is only one wire feeding the whole system, and that's gotta be it.  It shows all the fuses "before" the ignition switch, but they're there.

Seems like this must be the answer - took awhile, huh?  I know it's a lot of dope slaps, but think of the exercise you guys have been getting!



  BINGO !   IF you find you have a 20 amp main fuse now, like my C-5 was.   It SHOULD be 12 ga wire.  It's not really.... or SHOULD not be feeding the whole bike.  It should distribute through the other fuses. Those fuses should be lower rated fuses.  Take a look at your circuit breaker box at home for an idea.  Same concept.

  As far as the "Schematic" goes.  It's not a true point to point, connection to connection, wire to wire... wiring diagram. It's an engineers drawing.... a line diagram, or a highbreed of a wiring diagram and a line diagram.  Stupid I know, but that's how they do it sometimes.  There are different ways to wire things, and get the same result. It's drawn with the assumption that the reader has an understanding of electrical theory.... as I was taught as a young pup in school and wondered the same thing.  For a tech, a true wiring diagram is MUCH better.



 And BTW Matt.  You do not have to wire fused circuits by distributing through a main fuse......  An individual added lighting circuit comes to mind...  BUT, if you are wiring a whole bike, or a whole house for that matter.  It is better to do so. Safer....more efficient...less and smaller wire can be used... easier to trouble shoot and isolate when there is a problem and such.   AND if you do wire to distribute, you CAN'T use the same size fuses in all the circuits  that you would as on the MAIN fuse.  If you do, the other fuses act like bridges or jumpers and everything WILL go through THAT wire.  And not until there is a 20 A draw will the main fuse pop......
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 04:59:33 PM by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

mattsz

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #48 on: March 08, 2014, 03:27:16 PM »
I'd wondered about that diagram's fuses - the main lead from the battery goes through a 20a fuse, and the rectifier lead branches off that and through another 20a fuse.  If you have a problem in your charging circuit, which fuse is going to blow?

As for the diagram in general, this is what they're selling.  One of these winters, when I'm truly and properly bored, I'll probably do a real wire-for-wire diagram, just for fun.  And by the time it's done, I'll be so familiar with the wiring that I won't every have to look at it again...  ;)

gashousegorilla

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2014, 04:50:18 PM »
I'd wondered about that diagram's fuses - the main lead from the battery goes through a 20a fuse, and the rectifier lead branches off that and through another 20a fuse.  If you have a problem in your charging circuit, which fuse is going to blow?

As for the diagram in general, this is what they're selling.  One of these winters, when I'm truly and properly bored, I'll probably do a real wire-for-wire diagram, just for fun.  And by the time it's done, I'll be so familiar with the wiring that I won't every have to look at it again...  ;)

  The main will blow, at least as shown in the drawing. And remember, wire size or gauge AND length determines fuse size. And with effectivly one 20 A fuse !? ..... You can see why they upgraded things with the newer bikes.  They have a true main fuse, and smaller fused branch circuits.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z242/flenke/12VDC_wire_gauge_chart.jpg


 If your interested and into it..... some examples of wire diagrams, some better then others. And if you look close enough, even with the same model bike .  Suttle changes are made from one model year to the next.  But they are drawn that way and be clearly seen. MOST issues with bikes that I run into are Electrical problems. WHY..... such little attention has been paid to our's !?  New diagrams should come out every year......

 

 

  http://www.cmsnl.com/classic-honda-fansite/wiring_diagrams.php
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

mattsz

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2014, 01:05:54 PM »
Ducati Scotty-

That starter solenoid link waaaay back near the top shows an ebay item for about $10.  I've been looking around the motorcycle sites, and the price seems to be around $50, which is what the RE guys quoted me.  Are these generic $10 deals really ok?  None of them show any attachment points, how do they mount?

mattsz

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2014, 10:13:36 PM »
For $21, I bought two:



I tested them and they both work, i.e. battery voltage across the coil contacts produces a solid "click" and continuity across the big connections.  Now to re-wire...

Bonus: four 20-amp fuses...  8)  I wonder if they're the same size as the RE fuses?

mattsz

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2014, 09:57:33 PM »
Basically done - a big improvement in wire leading!

One question: the negative battery cable runs right to one of the allen-head bolts that holds the starter to the casing.  That bolt has some sort of orange "stuff" on it - is that sealant to keep water out of the casing?  Should I replace it?

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2014, 01:00:24 AM »
It's LocTite of some sort.  Whatever type you have on hand should do.

Scott

mattsz

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2014, 01:19:30 AM »
Roger - thanks!!

mattsz

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #55 on: October 30, 2014, 12:24:32 AM »
I was asked about my solenoid installation, which was part of my battery cable replacement, so I thought I'd add the info here, to complete the picture.

Here's the OEM installation for reference:



The small "extra" red wire was indeed a take-off from the positive battery terminal.  I decided to crimp it into the new positive battery cable at the solenoid, which lives under the seat of my 2011 B5.  The following pic is the new installation; the arrow shows the connector which has the battery cable and the small red wire crimped.



Sorry it's not shown well, but that small red wire is in there.

The heavier wire that crosses the top of the solenoid is the negative wire of my Battery Tender lead.  The terminal end with the red collar is the positive wire of the Battery Tender lead.  It's kind of hiding the + battery cable, which loops down and back up to the + battery terminal.  The Solenoid terminal without the arrow is the positive lead which runs to the starter.  The two small pink spade connectors are the leads (small blue and small white wire) which activate the solenoid through the handlebar starter switch.

For installation, I cut the old wires which were bedded into the OEM solenoid (getting rid of them all anyway) and removed it from the bike - two bolts hold it to the frame by a U-shaped bracket which is lightly tack-welded to the solenoid.  I clamped the solenoid lightly into a vice, and using a flat screwdriver as a lever, I tapped the U-bracket and it popped right off the solenoid.

The new solenoid fits the U-bracket almost perfectly.  Since I didn't have a way of tacking them together, I wrapped a couple layers of friction tape around the body of the new solenoid (you can see it in the pic above), and wedged it into the bracket.  I checked out some copper pipe hanger (the metal strips with holes that plumbers use to hang pipe from basement overheads) and found the holes lined up nicely, so I cut a short section to hold it in place from the top.  I wedged a strip of compressible closed-cell foam in there for good gripping pressure.  Another bad pic:


ryanof

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #56 on: October 30, 2014, 02:03:12 AM »
" The two small pink spade connectors are the leads (small blue and small white wire) which activate the solenoid through the handlebar starter switch."

Matt.  Does it matter which side the blue or white wires connect to?

mattsz

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #57 on: October 30, 2014, 10:45:09 AM »
" The two small pink spade connectors are the leads (small blue and small white wire) which activate the solenoid through the handlebar starter switch."

Matt.  Does it matter which side the blue or white wires connect to?

There are no polarity indications on the solenoid, and I don't remember trying to sort out which starter switch wire was which, so I'm going to say it doesn't matter.  If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will chime in quick!

ryanof

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2014, 04:50:01 PM »
There are no polarity indications on the solenoid, and I don't remember trying to sort out which starter switch wire was which, so I'm going to say it doesn't matter.  If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will chime in quick!

I'm about to replace my solenoid and thanks to you guys I have everything figured out with the exception of the two spade connectors on top of the new solenoid.  The two thin white and blue wires connect to the spade connectors but on which side?  Can anyone help?

ryanof

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Re: Battery cable replacement
« Reply #59 on: November 03, 2014, 05:56:10 PM »
Bump