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October 24, 2014, 08:35:45 AM

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Author Topic: back brakes locking up again...  (Read 1878 times)

whoguy

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Re: back brakes locking up again...
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2014, 09:42:19 PM »
Hey Steve,

I personally think it's the washer and nut not being able to hold firmly onto the swing arm plate which allows it to move. On my swing arm, the bolt is 10.8mm and the slot is about 13mm, which allows about 2.2 mm of movement if the nut is unable to hold the drum assembly.

If you can find some 2mm metal the same thickness as the swing arm plate and jam it above the bolt, then tighten the nut and washer on top of it all, it should stop the drum assembly rotating up or down. Be careful not to strip any thread when jamming the metal in there, and make sure you centre the drum brake by pressing the rear brake while you tighten the nut.

If this doesn't do it, I think the swing arm slot has become too wide after being deformed, and there is simply not enough metal for the washer and nut to grip onto... so you need to get a new swing arm, or weld metal to the slot to make it narrower.

Hope that helps SectorSteve
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Arizoni

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Re: back brakes locking up again...
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2014, 12:42:36 AM »
To keep that 2.2mm clearance from causing problems, rotate the brake backing plate (along with the threaded stud that goes thru the slot) clockwise until the stud stops the plate from rotating further.  Then, with the studs washer in place, tighten both the large nut on the axle and the smaller nut on the thru stud.

By doing this, even if the stud's nut doesn't tighten up enough to keep the stud from moving during braking, the stud is already pre-loaded against a fixed stop.  The backing plate cannot rotate further.

If the stud was centered in the slot or if the backing plate was rotated counter-clockwise before tightening the stud's nut, if it ever did move and the backing plate rotated clockwise during braking this would tighten the brake arm.
With the brake arm tightened, it would be the same as stomping on the brake pedal and the rear brake would lock up.
Jim
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Sectorsteve

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Re: back brakes locking up again...
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2014, 12:51:24 AM »
The whole brake plate cannot move as I've secured it.  it isn't this.

Sectorsteve

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Re: back brakes locking up again...
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2014, 08:44:03 PM »
yawwwwnnnnn. well its another morning and one where im gonna give it another try. last night whilst out to get some fish n chips i applied the brake ever so slightly, got a nice big lock up and skid that involved quite a few anti clockwises of the brake nut...
SO> im gonna take the brake rod off and bash that thing straight as its pretty bent. Im also gonna sort the pedal end out so its not moving about side to side. Its gotta be this. Inside the hub, the brake arm etc and everything down the wheel end is fine. its def operator error , just tryna find where. this has only been going on 3 months!

Ducati Scotty

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Re: back brakes locking up again...
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2014, 09:03:44 PM »
The post that the foot brake lever mounts to/pivots on, that should be pointing straight out.  If it's not 90 degrees to the line of the bike you may want to look into getting it that way.

Scott

Sectorsteve

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Re: back brakes locking up again...
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2014, 11:04:21 PM »
the pedal end is fine. ripped that off, cleaned greased put back on.
straightened rod.
from hitchcocks, i bought brake plate, cam bolts, spring, for the rear brake.
These bits are slightly different to the originals and i think this is where my problem is.
the new brake plate doesnt have a second tiny bolt for the new spring. the new spring has only 1 loop in it to attach to the new brake plate. seems like they are made for each other and that is cool, but this means there is less support and when the brake is applied, the whole lever is kinda moving away from the bike, rather than just vertically towards the front of bike when you depress the pedal. Also the new pivot cam(that separates the shoes) is really short so you can only put the 1 nut on there. The old system had a longer bolt and you could have the brake shoe measurement gizmo plus a second nut.
Basically (i believe) this new system is flawed. without being able to to properly secure the spring to the brakeplate and the brake lever to the brake plate you have this perpendicular movement. Now i think i can get around the short pivot bolt, but im not so sure with the spring. I think that spring needs to be flush and secured in 2 places to the brake plate.


Sectorsteve

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Re: back brakes locking up again...
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2014, 11:17:47 PM »
i think thats it...



  Not to state the obvious...... but that spring should have no problem pulling that rod back  when you release the pedal. There is a lot of tension in that spring, or should be. By loosening the nut, your making it easier for that spring to pull the rod back.  Sounds like something may be binding and or bent,  from that spring/ arm, through the rod to the pedal.  I no longer have the stock set up, so I can't look. But is it possible that the pedal travel  adjustment is sooo loose, that you are getting it into a position... down so far. That the rod winds up straight, binds and can't return?

gashousegorilla

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Re: back brakes locking up again...
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2014, 12:11:53 AM »
i think thats it...


  IF the spring is not secured at both ends, at the arm and at the screw.... no tension.  You would hit the brake and it would probably stay there, a bent rod could make it even harder for it to return .
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whoguy

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Re: back brakes locking up again...
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2014, 01:38:58 AM »
Hey Steve,

One question I forgot to ask you... when your rear brake locks up, how do you release it?

Mine was impossible to release, so I had to resort to undoing the adjustment nut at the end of the rod.... did you have to do the same?
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Sectorsteve

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Re: back brakes locking up again...
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2014, 01:43:13 AM »
yes Brian i have to release the tension nut.

i just tried to find a tap and die so i can rethread the bolt. the bolt i got from hitchcocks - cam bolt is really crap. its like putty. the metal just shaves off it and its not even long enough to cover the width of one nut.
i will try and find another. no doubt be another waste of time and waste of money.
ive written to hitchcocks about all their crap they sent me recently that bent, warped, folded, didnt work, and wasnt as advertised. i understand its all from india - but still. ffs get it together a holes. one of the reasons this is taking so long is because of the time it takes to get crap from them. pretty annoying when its substandard as well...
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 01:54:18 AM by Sectorsteve »

whoguy

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Re: back brakes locking up again...
« Reply #40 on: March 27, 2014, 03:35:46 AM »
Hmmm... sounds like something is definately moving, whether it be the cam bolt or something else. Might try to get it from Graham instead, might be a little pricier, but it'll be quicker... he might be able to get you the part that won't cause problems too.

I don't know why your cam bolt is short??? ... If you get it apart, might be worthwhile taking pics of the two bolts side by side.
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Sectorsteve

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Re: back brakes locking up again...
« Reply #41 on: March 27, 2014, 05:33:29 AM »
so i just spent another 3 hours on it. a waste of time again im sure. the cam bolt thread is absolutely rooted - not to mention way too short. You cant even get the nut all the way on. the nut wil go on just over halfway. Not enough purchase. this mechanism needs more than that. the original bolt you could get 2 nuts plus the measurement gizmo.
the brake arm moves perpendicular at the pivot point which i think is the cause of the problems. The spring is also not right but i could possibly live with that spring if i have the longer bolt. Brian i dont have the other bolt anymore. it was so bent that i chucked it thinking i was in the clear. boy was i wrong. i wish i had of kept it as i would have tried to bend it back to shape.

GreenMachine

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Re: back brakes locking up again...
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2014, 01:25:00 PM »
I was looking at my Bullet spare parts catalogue and it appears that the rear drum brake parts for the 350 up to the the 500 model 65 all use the same parts for the rear brake assembly...Does the UCE follow the same convention? ....Is it possible that they are sending you  a "rear hub spindle" that is f/u/w the older models vice what you need ....2 bad u threw away the old one as it would had been good to compare.....I wouldn't be surprise if the UCE uses a slightly different size one...With the nuts and washers removed, the Hub spindle bolt should just require a bit of knocking out to get the bolt out the other side whereas you can just grab it and pull it out (shouldn't be rooted) ...Mine just fell out the other end and the spacers fell on the ground..Luckily I had a pic and parts manual to show how they were assembled...
Oh Magoo you done it again

singhg5

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Re: back brakes locking up again...
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2014, 04:09:17 PM »
so i just spent another 3 hours on it. a waste of time again im sure. the cam bolt thread is absolutely rooted - not to mention way too short. You cant even get the nut all the way on. the nut wil go on just over halfway. Not enough purchase. this mechanism needs more than that. the original bolt you could get 2 nuts plus the measurement gizmo.
..

Yes, it is too small as compared to what is on G5. I think you will need new set of correct size and specs.
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Professor

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Re: back brakes locking up again...
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2014, 04:28:58 PM »
If nothing works. it may be your brake drum is out of round. Go to the Race Tech Suspension Website. They have a brake service that trues the drum and matches the brake shoe to the drum. It works. My Triumph was fixed permanently. You must remove the rear tire from the bike and the tire.