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Author Topic: starting problem. fuel pump not priming - starter not spinning  (Read 1017 times)

screamin lord sutch

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Hello all, this is my first post after lurking a while.

I recently did some repairs to my buddy's 2011 C5 bullet. It has no kickstart but I don't know if that was even an option for 2011.
I removed the right engine cover and replaced the gasket, removed the exhaust, rear fender and wheel, and installed LEDs in the gauge cluster.
Today I reinstalled everything except the exhaust and I tried starting it up to let it idle a few seconds. I guess I was doing this to circulate the oil and see if 2.2L was enough to read correct in the oil window. It started up easily and ran for about 4 seconds and then I shut it off.
I put the exhaust back on and then tried to start it and nothing happened. I could hear that the fuel pump (i'm guessing thats what I was hearing) was not whirring like it did before. The starter was obviously not spinning. I hit the start button and nothing happens. All the lights work and the kickstand is up, it's in neutral, clutch pulled in.
I don't have a service manual for the UCE version so I don't know where to start troubleshooting.
Any ideas?
And thanks in advance for taking time to help me out. I waited ages for parts to come from India and now it won't start. :(
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 03:41:08 AM by screamin lord sutch »

High On Octane

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Re: starting problem. fuel pump not priming - starter not spinning
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2014, 03:39:36 AM »
Sounds like the side stand or roll over switch could be acting up on you.  If the bike hasn't been leaned over, it is probably the side stand switch and I'd start there.  Just unplug it and see if it starts up.  If not, check the fuses and battery terminals for failure.

Scottie J
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screamin lord sutch

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Re: starting problem. fuel pump not priming - starter not spinning
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2014, 03:43:36 AM »
I'll check that, thank you!
I had checked all the 20amp fuses on the side and they're all ok. I just remembered there's another inline fuse on the battery terminal so I'll check that too, but it's probably fine because all the lights work.

trimleyman

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Re: starting problem. fuel pump not priming - starter not spinning
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2014, 04:10:03 AM »
please don't cuss me out ,but did you check the engine cut-off switch on the r/h handlebars switch set/ I know it's obvious , but hey none of us are perfect.
Now 2011 Royal Enfield G5 and just added 2014 Continental GT
Then:-
1978 Ducati 900 GTES
1969 Ducati 350 Desmo Racer
1972 Mototrans Ducati 250 24 Horas
1965 Triumph Tiger Cub 200
1967 BSA Bantum

Arizoni

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Re: starting problem. fuel pump not priming - starter not spinning
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2014, 05:54:48 AM »
When the key is first turned on, the fuel pump should run for just a few seconds until it has built up pressure.  On my 2011 G5, it then stops until the engine crankshaft rotates a bit and then it temporarily runs for another second or so.

If the engine kill switch is in the run position, the neutral light is on, the clutch lever is pulled in and the key is turned on the engine should crank and start.

If nothing is happening my first guess after the fuses would be the starter solenoid.  Is it clicking when the start button is pushed?  Even if it does click it might be worthwhile to use a jumper wire to go directly from the + side of the battery directly to the starter motor for just an instant.  That would confirm that the starter motor will operate (or not).

I'm not sure where they mounted them but there are three (on my G5) little square relays somewhere.  Mine are in the left hot dog cover but the C5 doesn't have these chrome covers.
Anyway, these are the same relays that are used on many cars to operate power windows, seat heaters and an assortment of other devices.  It is possible that one of these has quit working.

Another possibility is even with the kick stand up, the safety switch on it is telling the ECU the sidestand is down.  The motorcycle won't start or run if the ECU thinks this is happening.

The quick way around this side stand switch is to simply disconnect it.  The wiring connector is at the left rear side of the engine where a branch of harness is running down the frame seat down tube.

Let us know what you find.
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

screamin lord sutch

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Re: starting problem. fuel pump not priming - starter not spinning
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2014, 07:08:18 AM »
it was the kickstand switch.
the kickstand is grinding away and wearing down the mount, so it's kind of loosey goosey and wobbles enough to barely push the button up in there.
I could try to machine out the slot in the kickstand to square it off again and do the same to the mount on the bike and put in a couple bronze or copper washers as bushings or I tell my buddy to get a new kickstand. the factory one is a POS I gotta say. >:(


screamin lord sutch

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Re: starting problem. fuel pump not priming - starter not spinning
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2014, 07:17:10 AM »
When the key is first turned on, the fuel pump should run for just a few seconds until it has built up pressure.  On my 2011 G5, it then stops until the engine crankshaft rotates a bit and then it temporarily runs for another second or so.

If the engine kill switch is in the run position, the neutral light is on, the clutch lever is pulled in and the key is turned on the engine should crank and start.

If nothing is happening my first guess after the fuses would be the starter solenoid.  Is it clicking when the start button is pushed?  Even if it does click it might be worthwhile to use a jumper wire to go directly from the + side of the battery directly to the starter motor for just an instant.  That would confirm that the starter motor will operate (or not).

I'm not sure where they mounted them but there are three (on my G5) little square relays somewhere.  Mine are in the left hot dog cover but the C5 doesn't have these chrome covers.
Anyway, these are the same relays that are used on many cars to operate power windows, seat heaters and an assortment of other devices.  It is possible that one of these has quit working.

Another possibility is even with the kick stand up, the safety switch on it is telling the ECU the sidestand is down.  The motorcycle won't start or run if the ECU thinks this is happening.

The quick way around this side stand switch is to simply disconnect it.  The wiring connector is at the left rear side of the engine where a branch of harness is running down the frame seat down tube.

Let us know what you find.

great info I appreciate the response. I didn't think that the kickstand switch would keep the fuel pump from priming so I checked the relays and the fuses first... now I know in case it happens again. I could hear one of the relays clicking when I turned off the ignition so I could knew that was working. I'm more used to vintage japanese bikes without ECUs or safety kickstand switches.

Now I gotta find some oil filters... local chain stores can't find the bike in their system, and the purolator part PL7123 doesn't seem to exist anymore. And the local dealer no longer services or sells REs or stocks parts. So I guess it's ebay or something. :)

heloego

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Re: starting problem. fuel pump not priming - starter not spinning
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2014, 09:25:54 AM »
RE has Purolator make the filters under some agreement. You won't find a replacement filter anywhere but through a RE dealer or order from Nfield Gear (nfieldgear.com). They also make up a 5-pack kit with all the o-rings, etc.
Filter only: PN is 500613/A for the C5.
5-Pack Filter Kit: PN is Z91499 for the C5.

trimleyman made a good point, too.
The kill switch bit me the other day.  :-[
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 09:37:15 AM by heloego »
Rather than have a homeless person for the holidays, I decided to stick with ham.

suitcasejefferson

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Re: starting problem. fuel pump not priming - starter not spinning
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2014, 12:20:53 PM »
I hate those sidestand and clutch nanny switches with a passion. I have bypassed them on every bike I've owned, except for a couple of CVT scooters that have a centrifugal clutch, and could roll off the sidestand because they are always in gear. I have already disconnected the sidestand switch on the Enfield, and the clutch switch is next. My opinion is that if you really need these switches, you probably shouldn't be riding. And just like ABS, they prevent new riders from learning what they need to know to be able to ride safely. They also fail, and cause problems like you had.
I am a motorcyclist, NOT a biker.
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2002 Kawasaki Vulcan 750
2001 Yamaha XT225
2012 Yamaha Zuma 125
2009 Genuine Stella 2 stroke
1980 Puch Maxi ZA50 2 speed
1971 VeloSolex S3800

Arizoni

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Re: starting problem. fuel pump not priming - starter not spinning
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2014, 11:15:13 PM »
My sidestand switch has been disconnected for over 2 1/2 years now with no problem leaving the stand down and no mis-fires due to the switch turning on and off whenever small bumps in the road were ridden over. :)
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

screamin lord sutch

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Re: starting problem. fuel pump not priming - starter not spinning
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2014, 04:22:03 AM »
has anyone noticed substantial wear on the kickstand or on the mount? The allen bolt is tightened all the way and so is the lock nut, but it feels pretty loose, wiggly. It doesn't feel like any other bike I've encountered, doesn't feel trustworthy. Is there a high quality non OEM replacement I could try?

High On Octane

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Re: starting problem. fuel pump not priming - starter not spinning
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2014, 11:55:57 AM »
has anyone noticed substantial wear on the kickstand or on the mount? The allen bolt is tightened all the way and so is the lock nut, but it feels pretty loose, wiggly. It doesn't feel like any other bike I've encountered, doesn't feel trustworthy. Is there a high quality non OEM replacement I could try?

I don't believe anyone has tried an aftermarket switch.  The general consensus is to disconnect and remove it.  FWIW  I've been on this forum about 18 months or so and I seriously cannot remember or count the number of times people have come on here reporting "running issues" only for it to come back to be the side stand switch causing the trouble.  If you're worried about forgetting and leaving the side stand down.....  Most people only do that once.  ;)  Whether they go down or not is a different story, but it usually only happens once.

Scottie J
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance Twin

Join My Facebook Group!
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screamin lord sutch

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Re: starting problem. fuel pump not priming - starter not spinning
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2014, 09:32:57 PM »
I don't believe anyone has tried an aftermarket switch.  The general consensus is to disconnect and remove it.  FWIW  I've been on this forum about 18 months or so and I seriously cannot remember or count the number of times people have come on here reporting "running issues" only for it to come back to be the side stand switch causing the trouble.  If you're worried about forgetting and leaving the side stand down.....  Most people only do that once.  ;)  Whether they go down or not is a different story, but it usually only happens once.

Scottie J


I'm not worried about the switch anymore as much as the kickstand itself not being strong enough to properly hold the bike. Its grinding down the mount on the bike and rounding off the plane of the mount so that it fits very loosely and doesn't give you a sense of security.

High On Octane

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Re: starting problem. fuel pump not priming - starter not spinning
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2014, 02:06:42 AM »

I'm not worried about the switch anymore as much as the kickstand itself not being strong enough to properly hold the bike. Its grinding down the mount on the bike and rounding off the plane of the mount so that it fits very loosely and doesn't give you a sense of security.

That's the first I've heard of that problem.  That may be a manufacturing defect.  Can you attach a pic?

Scottie J
Bulldog Kustoms - Denver
Specializing In Kustom Paint

The Blackhawk
1958 Enfield/Indian 711cc Twin

Building The 1st Ever Ace Performance Twin

Join My Facebook Group!
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: starting problem. fuel pump not priming - starter not spinning
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2014, 06:33:02 AM »
FWIW, the kickstand mount is a separate piece that bolts to the frame, at least on the C5.

Scott