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Author Topic: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic  (Read 1465 times)

Pedrocas

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Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« on: April 20, 2014, 01:36:04 AM »
Hi There,

I recently bought a RE Bullet, C5 Classic 2012. UCE EFI.
Chance encounter to be honest, I had my scooter stolen and after a few months of searching for alternatives I came across a Bullet. I didn't think we had a distributor in Australia and bought it next day. It's an amazing bike, alot of fun to ride.

I was thinking about future plans and looking at performance. Since I'm a massive rookie at all this, I wasn't looking to mess with the engine and the first place I was looking at was weight reductions on the bike.

For example, the front and rear wheel guards feel like plate steel. Also removing some of the tool boxes and moving the wiring / filters under seat.

If there is someone with experience with this could you let me know where a good place to start would be? What weight reduction can safely be made and what impact that will have on overall performance.

I'm new to all this so any advice here would be helpful.

Cheers,
Pedro

Arizoni

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2014, 01:55:56 AM »
One of the first things to consider replacing would be the silencer (if this is legal where you live).
The stock unit is quite heavy and replacing it with a aftermarket unit could easily save 8 pounds.

Removing the mud guards will reduce weight but if you ride in the wet it may not be the best idea.

Removing the tool boxes saves a few pounds but it exposes a lot of important electrical equipment to the elements.  Not a good idea on a computerized fuel injected bike.

Removing the air filter is (IMO) being pennywise and pound foolish.
  Yes it might save a pound or so but your engine will be breathing dirt which will rapidly wear out the piston, piston rings and cylinder bore.

Your Royal Enfield is an old fashioned motorcycle with a newly designed engine in it.
That redesign increased the horsepower about 27 percent but as you've found, the machine is still far from a crotch rocket.

Ace (a forum member) is working on developing parts that will greatly increase the horsepower but it comes with a large price and a complete rebuild of the engine (whenever he finally gets it ready for release).

My suggestion is to just ride and enjoy the RE for what it is.  A true classic in the old British style.
It's dependable.  It gets great fuel economy and any oldtimer who can remember his early years will instantly become friendly. :)
Jim
2011 G5 Deluxe
1999 Miata 10th Anniversary

Professor

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2014, 02:36:02 AM »
Buy a Kawasaki Ninja 300 for $4700 and go rip. It weighs 385 lbs 40HP with a full tank. It will not disappoint you. Or wait for the new soon to arrive Yamaha FZ-07 at $6500 and 395 lbs 75HP. Rips more.  The RE is what it is and thank God for that. Enjoy it for what it is. The secret of life is knowing what something is, and more important, what it is not. Limits frustration.

Magoo

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2014, 02:44:23 AM »
Hi Pedro,
Firstly congrats! Another Enfield owner from Australia. Where you from? Perth here.

I've had similar thoughts about longer term plans for my 2013 classic chrome but kept arriving at a similar suggestion to Arizoni in that 'it is what it is', a well styled bike with years of refinement.
Everything seems to have its logical place and there's nothing I'd be comfortable removing besides the stock pipe and a new tail light configuration.
Remove the mudguards at your own peril though as besides the streak of dirt and water you'll have up your back, the police here are pretty quick to slap a yellow sticker on fender eliminators and the like.
The bike is pretty light as it is so any further refinement would be negligible and probably wouldn't yield the results you were looking for.

So for now, enjoy the machine for what it is, a nicely sculptured timepiece that may not get you the tonne that you're looking for, but has many other charms that appeal - the Enfield permagrin is one, and yes, it's an old man magnet (something I'm not always convinced is a positive, particularly seeing Indian taxi drivers swerve through traffic so they can pull alongside and chat about their own Enfield days)

Having said all of the above though, I'll likely wait until the two year warranty is up and then start it on a bobber project journey.

suitcasejefferson

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2014, 03:03:02 AM »
If you want performance, I agree. Buy a high performance bike. Performance was the last thing I was looking for when I bought my Enfield. I wanted a vintage ride. And that is what I got. I do not ever plan to exceed 60 mph with it, and do not see that as a problem. Future plans do include a new exhaust and replacing the EFI with a carb, to make it even more vintage, but I'm not in a hurry. I'm having plenty of fun riding it as is. Even a Honda Rebel 250 (yes I used to own one) will completely blow the Bullet away on the highway. But it sounds and feels like a sewing machine.
2013 Royal Enfield B5
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Pedrocas

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2014, 08:52:03 AM »
Buy a Kawasaki Ninja 300 for $4700 and go rip. It weighs 385 lbs 40HP with a full tank. It will not disappoint you. Or wait for the new soon to arrive Yamaha FZ-07 at $6500 and 395 lbs 75HP. Rips more.  The RE is what it is and thank God for that. Enjoy it for what it is. The secret of life is knowing what something is, and more important, what it is not. Limits frustration.

Thanks Professor. but I think you have me all wrong on this. I go to work for frustration and I ride my motorbike for fun  ;D ... and I definitely know there are 'faster' bikes out there. I'm not interested in a fast bike, just trying to get a little more out of the Enfield.

Pedrocas

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2014, 08:54:29 AM »
Even a Honda Rebel 250 (yes I used to own one) will completely blow the Bullet away on the highway. But it sounds and feels like a sewing machine.

I did sit on a Suzuki TU250X and had the same feeling. Not the type of bike I wanted.

Pedrocas

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2014, 09:08:20 AM »
Firstly congrats! Another Enfield owner from Australia. Where you from? Perth here.

Thanks mate, all the way over the other side of the country. Sydney ways.

Having said all of the above though, I'll likely wait until the two year warranty is up and then start it on a bobber project journey.

This is kind of why I am looking for a few ideas, I have seen a lot of custom work on RE's, mostly overseas, I bought a second hand bike and it has 6 months of warranty on it so beyond that I may look to do something. More like a hobby. I'm keen to know more about bikes and getting dirty and trying a few things seems like the way to do it.
 

Pedrocas

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2014, 09:16:49 AM »
Ace (a forum member) is working on developing parts that will greatly increase the horsepower but it comes with a large price and a complete rebuild of the engine (whenever he finally gets it ready for release).

Thanks for the tips Arizoni, I've been following Ace's work on the Fireball but know there are somethings to sort out for the EFI. Also, given i'm not that experienced on the mechanics I think the chance of doing the work or finding someone in Australia that can do the Fireball mod could be a long time coming yet and cost me through the teeth. :-\

All in at this stage is more about researching ideas for what could be on the to do list.

ace.cafe

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2014, 12:03:17 PM »
Thanks for the tips Arizoni, I've been following Ace's work on the Fireball but know there are somethings to sort out for the EFI. Also, given i'm not that experienced on the mechanics I think the chance of doing the work or finding someone in Australia that can do the Fireball mod could be a long time coming yet and cost me through the teeth. :-\

All in at this stage is more about researching ideas for what could be on the to do list.
If you are mostly after external mods that bolt on, or can be taken off, then you can pick a free flow kit that is known to work well on other users' bikes, and adds some power while taking away the weight. As Arizoni mentions, the stock silencer is very heavy, and it also is quite restrictive to the engine.  Pick one that flows as free as you can tolerate for loudness. Fewer baffles will weigh less, and also be less restrictive. Finding an air filter element for your existing air box system that is better at free-flowing than the stock unit, while retaining good filtration would also be good. These things combined can be good for up to about 3-4 hp increase, and would be well worth the time and effort to research them and choose them. It will not only give more power for more effortless highway speeds, but it will improve fuel economy, and it will help the bike run cooler. It's what we call "the low-hanging fruit" in the performance world. It's the stuff that gives good results that are easy things to do, and don't cost a lot. After that is all done, getting more power begins to get more expensive and invasive to the engine.

If you ever do decide to do things to the engine, it will need to have the free-flowing intake and exhaust mods on it anyway, to take advantage of the engine mods. It doesn't have to be expensive, either. Several owners have the Emgo exhaust silencers of various types, and they are under $100. Finding a good quality filter replacement that flows well will probably cost less than $15.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 12:06:44 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head Conversion. Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available anywhere.  AVL mods available. UCE kit coming.

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foggy95

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2014, 12:32:51 PM »
"This is kind of why I am looking for a few ideas, I have seen a lot of custom work on RE's, mostly overseas, I bought a second hand bike and it has 6 months of warranty on it so beyond that I may look to do something."

Unless RE has changed its policy since I sold my C5 last year, the factory warranty is not transferable.... :(

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GSS

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2014, 12:37:01 PM »
Pedrocas,
Welcome to the group!  You are on the right track.  A quick way to lose weight is to replace the front fender with a lighter weight skinny chrome fender from an older 500 cc iron barrel bullet.....there are lots of folks on EBay selling these.  The tail light contraption can also be replaced (that does weigh a lot), and there are a few who have put lighter cafe seats and shorter rear fenders.  If you search.  Gashousegorilla has done a spectacular job of weight reduction and you may want to look at his build in this section.  I have the lighter front fender and a plastic Triumph Thruxton seat on mine.  Have fun with your C5!

GSS
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Bulletman

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2014, 02:58:48 PM »
quote: Arizoni + 1
(My suggestion is to just ride and enjoy the RE for what it is.  A true classic in the old British style.
It's dependable.  It gets great fuel economy and any oldtimer who can remember his early years will instantly become friendly. )

as suggested by GSS...Take a look at Gashousegorillas different kinds of mods and the exciting work he has done and continues to do on his C5..really a piece of functioning art....I've used the emgo muffler myself and love the sound and the slight performance increase it's given me....feels better too...have fun with your C5 and welcome to the forum.
Cheers
"A Blast from my Past"
Mark F   (Northern, CA)
Black C5 2011

Craig McClure

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2014, 04:24:22 PM »
If I were looking to lower weight on mine I'd start by dieting, I love the bike for what it is.
Best Wishes, Craig McClure

suitcasejefferson

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2014, 07:32:50 PM »
If I were looking to lower weight on mine I'd start by dieting, I love the bike for what it is.

You and I seem to think a lot alike. At 230 I could certainly stand to loose some weight. Performance wise, I intend to leave my bike alone. I didn't buy it for performance. The only changes I eventually want to make are to replace the exhaust with something lighter and better looking, and to replace the EFI with a carb. The EFI is working fine, and may continue to do so for a long time. But being a vintage vehicle enthusiast, I'm the KISS type, and carbs appeal to me.

I have built several cars of the hot rod variety, but have never done anything to try and increase the performance of a bike, at least for more speed and power. I did by a used Yamaha XT225 dual sport for $1500, then spent another $2000 on it in mods, including a $600 rear shock, and $200 on new front fork internals. Given my weight, this dramatically increased the suspension performance. But aside from a rejetted carb, the engine is still stone stock, exhaust and all.
2013 Royal Enfield B5
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azcatfan

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2014, 08:40:08 PM »
I agree with others here, the RE is what it is.  The biggest performance mod I can do for my bike is to lose some weight myself.  However, this person managed to lose some lbs. from his bike, you might find some suggestions there....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwhmluI2E60
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 09:49:07 PM by azcatfan »
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Pedrocas

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2014, 10:30:00 PM »
Unless RE has changed its policy since I sold my C5 last year, the factory warranty is not transferable.... :(

Mmm .. bought it from a dealership too. Sounds like I need to look at the fine print.

Arizoni

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2014, 10:39:04 PM »
Warranties are made by the company that imports the motorcycle.

In the US, the warranty is not transferable.  In other countries it might be.
It's a good idea to read the fine print.  Your mileage may vary.
Jim
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cstorckiii

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2014, 10:46:37 PM »
A lithium battery will save you several lbs. Mine weighs 1.7lbs and spins the starter just fine.

Pedrocas

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2014, 10:53:44 PM »
However, this person managed to lose some lbs. from his bike, you might find some suggestions there....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwhmluI2E60

Thanks dude. Shame he didn't mention what weight saves he made on the mud guards.

Pedrocas

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2014, 12:58:01 AM »
In the US, the warranty is not transferable.  In other countries it might be.

OK, I think we are good here.  :)

"Warranty shall be in force until the expiry of a period of 24 months from the first date of the sale to the first customer and to any subsequent owners for the balance of the remaining period ..."

Pedrocas

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2014, 01:04:01 AM »
Gashousegorilla has done a spectacular job of weight reduction and you may want to look at his build in this section.  I have the lighter front fender and a plastic Triumph Thruxton seat on mine.  Have fun with your C5!

Thanks for the info GSS.

gashousegorilla

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2014, 04:47:53 AM »
Hi There,

I recently bought a RE Bullet, C5 Classic 2012. UCE EFI.
Chance encounter to be honest, I had my scooter stolen and after a few months of searching for alternatives I came across a Bullet. I didn't think we had a distributor in Australia and bought it next day. It's an amazing bike, alot of fun to ride.

I was thinking about future plans and looking at performance. Since I'm a massive rookie at all this, I wasn't looking to mess with the engine and the first place I was looking at was weight reductions on the bike.

For example, the front and rear wheel guards feel like plate steel. Also removing some of the tool boxes and moving the wiring / filters under seat.

If there is someone with experience with this could you let me know where a good place to start would be? What weight reduction can safely be made and what impact that will have on overall performance.

I'm new to all this so any advice here would be helpful.

Cheers,
Pedro

   You COULD loose a LOT of weight off the bike.  Certainly the things mentioned above. Ummmmm , but keeping the stock "Look" of the bike would be the challenge if that is what your after.   The tool boxes could go, and use the Oval tool box for your new electrical box. The intake you could use a pod or a filter of your choice..... Contrary to popular opinion, they work as long as you tune for them. The MASSIVE heavy , wind catching/shaking combination of the rear fender, fender stays and tail light... Sail light ! On the C-5 would be an area I would look into.  Definitely the Exhaust !  Not just the muffler, but that double wall header is not only restrictive, it's heavy too !  Again, you would probably have to tune for the change on the exhaust if you want it optimized, with TPS adjustment or something like a PC-V.  Or run the risk of your air fuel ratio being too lean and loosing performace.  Your plug will tell ya.  You can easily pick up a couple/few HP with intake and exhaust changes.  But you HAVE to tune for them. Unless you just stick on an after market muffler, and nothing else... you may get away with it.

 As far as really wanting to make a difference?  It's gonna take motor work. Head, port work, combustion chamber, cams , compression, piston, valve springs, rev extension etc. And your can get these bikes in the mid 30's at the rear wheel.  A bit more with some more  displacement..   For the above, GHG would look up Scooterbob on the forum, or get in touch will him at Go Moto out in the frozen ... now thawing , Tundra of Minisnowta . ;D

  Ummmmm .... Ninja 300 ?  I would certainly like to do a little stop light to stop light test with one of those ? ....While the guy is trying to ring the neck out of that throttle to get it going ::) 8)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 04:54:47 AM by gashousegorilla »
An thaibhsí atá rattling ag an doras agus tá sé an diabhal sa chathaoir.

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2014, 01:01:40 PM »
I'm confused..........a recent article on the UCE showed a rear wheel horsepower on the dyno of 18 horsepower. If you want more, why would you buy an RE in the first place???
It is what it is....leave it alone and ride. . Two more horse won't get you there faster.
Like the guy said....20 horsepower will get you anywhere in the world....the rest is just "wheel spin" !!

ace.cafe

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2014, 01:17:34 PM »
I'm confused..........a recent article on the UCE showed a rear wheel horsepower on the dyno of 18 horsepower. If you want more, why would you buy an RE in the first place???
It is what it is....leave it alone and ride. . Two more horse won't get you there faster.
Like the guy said....20 horsepower will get you anywhere in the world....the rest is just "wheel spin" !!

I think a lot of the guys would like a little longer legs on the highway, especially in metro areas where cagers are constantly doing 80+ mph around them.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head Conversion. Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available anywhere.  AVL mods available. UCE kit coming.

Please visit my new website:
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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2014, 02:06:50 PM »
If that's the kind of riding you want.........you're on the wrong bike !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ducati Scotty

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2014, 02:12:55 PM »
Everyone telling Pedrocas that it is what it is and leave it alone, lighten up!  Just because someone else's mods don't suit your tastes doesn't make them completely null and void. 

If you want to keep the stock look but shed some weight, look at getting aluminum fenders and an aftermarket exhaust.  You can get batteries that are much lighter and smaller, maybe even relocate it and ditch the stock battery box.  You can remove the tool boxes as long as you find somewhere else to put what's inside.  As already mentioned, some intake and exhaust work will give you a bit more power but not that much.  You can also look into relacing the wheels onto aluminum rims. Lightening rotating mass gives big gains.

And anyone who says a C5 can't be fast, take a look at Gorilla's bike.  Not easy but it ain't slow either.

Scott

ace.cafe

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2014, 02:22:43 PM »
Everyone telling Pedrocas that it is what it is and leave it alone, lighten up!  Just because someone else's mods don't suit your tastes doesn't make them completely null and void. 

If you want to keep the stock look but shed some weight, look at getting aluminum fenders and an aftermarket exhaust.  You can get batteries that are much lighter and smaller, maybe even relocate it and ditch the stock battery box.  You can remove the tool boxes as long as you find somewhere else to put what's inside.  As already mentioned, some intake and exhaust work will give you a bit more power but not that much.  You can also look into relacing the wheels onto aluminum rims. Lightening rotating mass gives big gains.

And anyone who says a C5 can't be fast, take a look at Gorilla's bike.  Not easy but it ain't slow either.

Scott

I agree.
If a Bullet is what a person likes, and it just lacks some ooomff to do certain things that they need to do, there's no reason to not adjust its capabilities.
It can be done, and then you have a Bullet that does what you need.
Simple as that.

Of course, if a person isn't really attached to the Bullet, and would be just as happy on a Ninja or a KTM or a Triumph, then he might go out and trade it in for one of them.


« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 02:50:24 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head Conversion. Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available anywhere.  AVL mods available. UCE kit coming.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

gashousegorilla

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2014, 05:22:39 PM »
Everyone telling Pedrocas that it is what it is and leave it alone, lighten up!   

Scott


 Lighten up he says..... :o ;D   Ahhhhhhh.... One could go on and on. But if they HAVE to ask ?  Probably don't get it anyway. 

 And speaking of lightening up, I really have no idea of what my bike weighs ?  I mean I got an idea.... sure I must lost some poundage?  But I gotta do that....
And I also think there comes a point, when practically speaking , for OUR highways anyway. They're may just be going TOO light.  Before you get blown all over the highway....
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Ducati Scotty

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2014, 06:19:47 PM »
If you keep the stock frame I don't think you're in danger of being too light, even if you cut off a few pieces.

Scott

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2014, 06:46:27 PM »
I think if a guy wants to modify his own property within reasonable limits, that's his choice. Besides power there's a plethora of reasons to choose a bullet over other stronger bikes. It has a charm lacking in most other bikes available for the last 30+ years. To get the same kind of charm you need to look at other British bikes of a similar heritage.

I'd love a Norton, or gold star, but for less, I've got a Fireball, and I don't feel bad about chopping it up and making it my own!

Will be firing the fireball up in a day or two for the first time btw   :D

ace.cafe

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2014, 07:19:24 PM »
I think if a guy wants to modify his own property within reasonable limits, that's his choice. Besides power there's a plethora of reasons to choose a bullet over other stronger bikes. It has a charm lacking in most other bikes available for the last 30+ years. To get the same kind of charm you need to look at other British bikes of a similar heritage.

I'd love a Norton, or gold star, but for less, I've got a Fireball, and I don't feel bad about chopping it up and making it my own!

Will be firing the fireball up in a day or two for the first time btw   :D

As you no doubt are aware, Nixie, we are working on a project with Bullet Whisperer's racing 500, which we are hoping will yield a racing Bullet that is a match for any legendary British racing 500 single ever. Perhaps we will even be faster.
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suitcasejefferson

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2014, 08:04:34 PM »
I think if a guy wants to modify his own property within reasonable limits, that's his choice. Besides power there's a plethora of reasons to choose a bullet over other stronger bikes. It has a charm lacking in most other bikes available for the last 30+ years. To get the same kind of charm you need to look at other British bikes of a similar heritage.

I'd love a Norton, or gold star, but for less, I've got a Fireball, and I don't feel bad about chopping it up and making it my own!

Will be firing the fireball up in a day or two for the first time btw   :D


Correct. He has a right to modify it any way he wants. I think many (including myself) cringe at the prospect of chopping up a stock Bullet, even though it is not an actual vintage bike. My first thought was, if you want to modify, get a late model Japanese bike, and have at it. But I also see the Bullet as a fairly fragile bike, one that requires a lot of maintenance and needs to be ridden carefully to prevent it from breaking down. I mean, I've decided not to exceed 60 mph on mine. The idea of trying to get more performance out of a bike that already can't handle the performance it is capable of doesn't make sense to me. But on the other hand, it doesn't need to. I'm sure I do a lot of things that don't make sense to others. Limiting my Bullet to 60 mph may be one of them. Best of luck with your bike  Pedrocas.
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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2014, 11:25:27 PM »
I understand completely, Having taken the whole thing to bits this last week, I have seen for myself how fragile it is!

What I see myself doing here though is replacing some of the less than seller Indian parts with those more akin to the original redditch ones (or better, in most cases)

The design isn't inherently weak, it's just a handmade machine that's made to a standard befitting it's lower price bracket.

I think we are lucky to be able to still buy a bike that hasn't changed much since the 50's. 

Though buying a brand new bike and modifying it heavily from the outset doesnt neccesary make sense. Mine was already 10 years old. I have just decided to fix some of the new Indian ideas I didn't agree with (i.e remove electric start) and embrace others like the 5 speed box and LH shift. I've also taken a metric tonne of iron away!

And Ace, I'm looking forward to what you and Paul have come up with for this racer!

Respect to all no matter how they want their steed to be  ;)

ace.cafe

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2014, 11:46:16 PM »
I understand completely, Having taken the whole thing to bits this last week, I have seen for myself how fragile it is!

What I see myself doing here though is replacing some of the less than seller Indian parts with those more akin to the original redditch ones (or better, in most cases)

The design isn't inherently weak, it's just a handmade machine that's made to a standard befitting it's lower price bracket.

I think we are lucky to be able to still buy a bike that hasn't changed much since the 50's. 

Though buying a brand new bike and modifying it heavily from the outset doesnt neccesary make sense. Mine was already 10 years old. I have just decided to fix some of the new Indian ideas I didn't agree with (i.e remove electric start) and embrace others like the 5 speed box and LH shift. I've also taken a metric tonne of iron away!

And Ace, I'm looking forward to what you and Paul have come up with for this racer!

Respect to all no matter how they want their steed to be  ;)

After being intimately involved with all the RE 500 platforms, and modifying them to various extents, I can say that the modified condition is an upgrade in virtually all ways from the factory condition. So, any perceived "weaknesses" of the factory bike are generally addressed with any mods, or mods are done within the expected capacity of the remaining aspects of the stock platform to handle. Modifications can be done at many levels. The more power involved in modification, the more strength and reliability modifications must be done to handle it. This is just the way things are. It requires some experience to do these things, and happily, we have that experience.

Not everybody wants to modify their bikes, but some do.
For those that do want to, there are sound methods and approaches available to do it for various power levels, and also available for improvements of reliability and longevity.

The antique Iron Barrel models are the "weakest and most spindly and fragile" of all the Bullet platforms, and we are able to push them up to over 50 hp, and possibly even 60 hp. So, the more robust and better made UCE platform is not really seen by us as any impediment to making power. 
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 11:49:56 PM by ace.cafe »
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Pedrocas

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2014, 10:03:34 AM »
I'm confused..........a recent article on the UCE showed a rear wheel horsepower on the dyno of 18 horsepower. If you want more, why would you buy an RE in the first place???
It is what it is....leave it alone and ride. . Two more horse won't get you there faster.

There are many reasons to like the bike, as is or with mods. Isn't that enough? If it helps, when I was 5 i ripped appart all my remote control cars and found one had a better motor than the other, so I switched that into my favourite toy. Why. Because it was fun.

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2014, 10:08:29 AM »
I think if a guy wants to modify his own property within reasonable limits, that's his choice. Besides power there's a plethora of reasons to choose a bullet over other stronger bikes. It has a charm lacking in most other bikes available for the last 30+ years. To get the same kind of charm you need to look at other British bikes of a similar heritage.

Spot on.

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2014, 10:24:31 AM »
But I also see the Bullet as a fairly fragile bike, one that requires a lot of maintenance and needs to be ridden carefully to prevent it from breaking down. I mean, I've decided not to exceed 60 mph on mine.

At 185kgs it feels like it could weigh at least 15-20kgs lighter with all the heavy parts. Am fairly new at all this but doesn't that mean that you could reduce the strain on the engine by stripping weight? ie The additional 5-7 HP wont get me higher top speeds, but slightly better acceleration or the same speed at lower output levels?

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2014, 10:28:59 AM »
And I also think there comes a point, when practically speaking , for OUR highways anyway. They're may just be going TOO light.  Before you get blown all over the highway....

I've traded up from scooters so used to it a little. Nothing like riding over Sydney Harbour bridge on a windy day on a 110kg windsail with tiny wheels and getting pushed around in the lane ...  :P

Also, do you have a photo or a link for details of your machine?

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2014, 10:40:45 AM »
Great discussion on here. Thanks for all your thoughts so far and please keep them coming.

I am new to all this but know one thing for certain, the Bullet was the right bike for me. As soon as I sat on it and turned the engine it was such a kick.

I know I wont win any races or break any speed records but there is nothing wrong with a little curiosity and I am a big fan of the modding communities and also have a lot of respect for the purist approach. Takes understanding, creativity and perseverance and the later takes restraint, patience and dedication. Both camps have great qualities to admire.

All in I will definitely be following the work of many on here as their as there is a lot to learn.

Cheers,
Pedro

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2014, 05:46:59 PM »
I like the weight of the Enfield. Feels solid and planted. I have ridden my XT225 dual sport on the highway at 60 mph, and it does feel like it might get blown away. It probably weighs about half of what the Enfield does, but has about the same max hp. The difference is the XT's max hp is at a much higher rpm than the Enfields. The Enfield feels like a locomotive, you get the feeling it could just plow right through anything and keep going. I think most of that feeling comes from it's weight, and slow revving heavy flywheel motor.

Normally I do not like revvy motors. The one exception is 2 strokes. I would love to have a '70s Kawasaki H2 triple. But they cost more than a nice vintage Triumph.
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ROVERMAN

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2014, 06:20:22 PM »
And you may die on one! I tried to buy a 500 back in 77' or so, no one would sell me insurance at any price.
Roverman..... yes, i was young and dumb once. ;D

gashousegorilla

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2014, 06:36:16 PM »
I've traded up from scooters so used to it a little. Nothing like riding over Sydney Harbour bridge on a windy day on a 110kg windsail with tiny wheels and getting pushed around in the lane ...  :P

Also, do you have a photo or a link for details of your machine?

  Here you go......

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php?topic=16128.0
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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2014, 06:52:52 PM »
The one exception is 2 strokes. I would love to have a '70s Kawasaki H2 triple.

Those bikes were a terrbile combination of an extremely powerful motor mated to a chassis with, at best, marginal handling.  They just weren't quite as good with steering geometry back in the day.  The idea of those large 2 stroke motors on a street bike seems so weird to me since they've got such a peaky powerband.  It made for some really exciting Moto GP racing to watch but I can't imagine it was easy to ride on the street.

Scott

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2014, 07:00:19 PM »
  Here you go......

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php?topic=16128.0

 8) 8)
Wow, super.
So much attention to detail: museum quality, and yet it lives.  ;D

I'm intrigued by the emblemata: what and who, if possible?
moriunt omnes pauci vivunt

gashousegorilla

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2014, 11:25:04 PM »
8) 8)
Wow, super.
So much attention to detail: museum quality, and yet it lives.  ;D

I'm intrigued by the emblemata: what and who, if possible?

  Thank you Royalista. I try to keep it clean.  Lives and BREATHS it does , and gets faster every year.

 Emblemata ? ..... I like it !  The WHO, would be Scooterbob , myself and my very talented niece Erin. Who pulled together the idea's that we threw at her.  The WHAT.... Well, there is a LOT going on. But mostly Celtic..... With Indian and British ideas in there.  British racing GREEN, WHITE and ORANGE on the tins and in the Emblems. With a silver frame for Mike Hailwood and his silver colored Ducati's and Honda's

 The "9" is obvious. It's a 2009, and I tend to put the year on the seat cowl on the cafe's I have built.....  Or an important year.  Could also be like a Cat, with nine lives with all the different tuning modifications we have experimented with !  ::) ;D


  The four leaf clover, inset in the checker board on the front fender is for luck.... 'cause I need it !

  The " GS 535 TT " , seen on the pedestrian slicer and again throughout the Elblemata. Is the man who makes the go fast engine parts.   GS..... G reg S tewart.. AKA "ScooterBob" .  The TT is just a model discription and style if you will ? ....  Like a CB500 TT. The "535" is for Eventual displacment.... MAYBE?!  Because right now I don't think it needs it. AND I was not going to paint the bike TWICE!  :o

 The Tank emblem is a gear.... I just like the look of a gear AND  A little inside joke. With the Flag of Ireland and Scotland... our shared Celtic ancestry. The Crown ... British. Again the "TT".

 The rear " air scoop " Emblem ... is two machine guns with our initials on the stocks. A cannon or muskets just wouldn't due.  A "BULLET "  in the center, obvious. An Isle of Man symbol.... always lands on it's feet. A micromiter for ScooterBob, and a Hammer for me.  Fitting I think ? And "Built like a Gun"  Instead of  " Made Like A Gun". Because you MAKE a Cake, and you BUILD a Bike.

 Some of it anyway......

 
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Royalista

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #46 on: April 23, 2014, 12:17:19 AM »
Great. I was mystified, no more I am.
I'm susceptible for graphics with lots of content. Very cool and excellently executed, or may I write build?  ;)
moriunt omnes pauci vivunt

suitcasejefferson

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #47 on: April 23, 2014, 05:26:39 AM »
Those bikes were a terrbile combination of an extremely powerful motor mated to a chassis with, at best, marginal handling.  They just weren't quite as good with steering geometry back in the day.  The idea of those large 2 stroke motors on a street bike seems so weird to me since they've got such a peaky powerband.  It made for some really exciting Moto GP racing to watch but I can't imagine it was easy to ride on the street.

Scott

I have ridden one on the street. Like the muscle cars of the time, they were designed for one purpose. To go fast. I don't think handling was even a consideration. They were also not so great in traffic. But unlike today's sport bikes, they had a fairly reasonable riding position. Where these bikes came into their own was at full throttle on a long stretch of straight road. The high pitched wail of the 2 stroke triple sounded like nothing on earth.

The Yamaha V-Max was a similar concept. Huge power, pipe rack chassis and poor suspension. Again, it was not meant to be a good all around bike. It was meant to go very fast in a straight line. When the V-Boost kicked in around 5000 rpm at full throttle, it was like going into warp drive.

I never cared much about super high speeds, Hayabusa style. Tire shredding acceleration is what I like. One of the reasons I have been hot rodding cars all my life, but leaving my bikes stock, engine wise anyway. I still enjoy burning rubber in a car, but like my bikes to be laid back and relaxing. Despite having had some fast bikes, I find the Enfield very satisfying in a whole different way. It has absolutely nothing to do with performance. It has character and soul, something a modern Japanese bike will never have. Fast bikes come and go. I have a feeling the Enfield will be around for a very long time.
2013 Royal Enfield B5
2002 Kawasaki Vulcan 750
2001 Yamaha XT225
2012 Yamaha Zuma 125
2009 Genuine Stella 2 stroke
1980 Puch Maxi ZA50 2 speed
1971 VeloSolex S3800

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #48 on: April 23, 2014, 06:02:06 AM »
http://www.royalenfields.com/2011/12/royal-enfield-dealer-unveils-flat.html

Here is the Douglas Flat Tracker which is claimed to weight about 235-245 lbs. by the builders. It has custom parts they will sell as a kit late in the year. Honda motocross disk brake wheel-set with axel spacers, Yamaha F-1 forks, custom adjustable triple tree, custom Champion seat. Custom welded box section swing arm with needle bearings, not bushings. Custom head pipe and megaphone exhaust. Flat track tires set. K&N #7 style bars and new custom bar clamps. Old school controls. The weigh taken just off the front end was amazing. The stock bike weight is about 412 lbs. Everything will be bolt on with no fabrication required by the customer.

This bike is the prototype. If interested call them. I saw it at the LA show, then went to the dealer for a close look. Even with the stock motor it should really run well.

Pedrocas

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #49 on: April 23, 2014, 11:36:01 AM »

gashousegorilla

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2014, 02:47:52 PM »
Mate, nice work. That is something to be proud of.

  I am , and thanks.  Depending on where and how you are riding. I think it's good to get as much of your body out of the wind as you can, the faster you go.... And still be comfortable.  Ducati Scotty turned me on , to what I personally think is the perfect set of Clubman bar's out there for the street. Not TOO low of a drop... but gets you down there a bit. I put them on my CB750 cafe' and are PERFECT for me, without rear sets. And last week I rode up to British Cycle supply and grabbed another one for the Enfield. Again, perfect for me with rear sets. Your height will play a role though...

http://www.britcycle.com/products/Handlebars/521_563.htm

 
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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2014, 05:19:10 PM »
If people didn't do things because others thought it wasn't worth it then we would live in a boring world full of stock Bullets.  Many of us, including myself, don't have deep years of motorcycle performance experience but do have the desire to tinker.  Doing some easy mods here and there is great way to start and feels really good when you get it how you imagined. 

Pedro, I bet you can shed some weight between the fenders, muffler, tail light section, and the extra bits.  My DRZ has a battery that is less than half the weight of my Bullets.  I'm sure someone here has gone with a smaller battery.  Maybe you will notice the weight change - maybe not.  Who cares?  If it makes you feel better about the bike, do it.  I don't think my drop bars made my bike faster, but it sure as heck felt faster to me and that is more important than dyno numbers.

One of my favorite Royal Enfields on this site belongs to AgentX and he's definitely taken his machine away from the normal looking Bullet.  It's more my style than the stock, easy going around-town, clean Bullet.  I like those too!, but they aren't what I want to ride.  If you ask me, Agent's bike looks lighter -  Even if it just "looks" lighter.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/MikesBikes/DSC_0042_zps7f50528b.jpg

Do whatever you want to that thing.  Chop it, cut it, paint it like a rainbow.  It's yours.  If you have a question, someone will answer it.  Good guys here.

Bullets are in the eye of the beholder.

Good luck man! -Boggy
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gashousegorilla

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2014, 06:28:12 PM »
 + 1 !
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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #53 on: April 24, 2014, 12:42:58 PM »

Do whatever you want to that thing.  Chop it, cut it, paint it like a rainbow.  It's yours.  If you have a question, someone will answer it.  Good guys here.

Bullets are in the eye of the beholder.

Good luck man! -Boggy

Thanks mate. Legend.

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2014, 12:53:03 PM »
If you ask me, Agent's bike looks lighter -  Even if it just "looks" lighter.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y218/MikesBikes/DSC_0042_zps7f50528b.jpg


Does it look 'shorter' too? Maybe the Classic seat just make mine look like the rear wheel is way back there.

ace.cafe

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Re: Weight Reduction on a Bullet C5 Classic
« Reply #55 on: April 24, 2014, 01:17:43 PM »
Does it look 'shorter' too? Maybe the Classic seat just make mine look like the rear wheel is way back there.
AgentX's bike is an Iron Barrel model, which has the separate gearbox and eternal primary drive. This makes the whole power unit longer, and it fills up the middle section.
The UCE has a shorter unit engine, and the swing arm pivot is moved 2 inches forward, and the swing arm is 2 inches longer, because of this. So that probably accounts for the perception of the longer tail end on the UCE.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head Conversion. Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available anywhere.  AVL mods available. UCE kit coming.

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