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Author Topic: Higher lift with stock cams - a possibility?  (Read 1132 times)

chumma7

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Re: Higher lift with stock cams - a possibility?
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2014, 05:52:12 PM »
Your bike sounds soooo good.

Thanks! I'll tell her you noticed...
ACE Fireball 001

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Higher lift with stock cams - a possibility?
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2014, 10:34:45 PM »
High lift cams should be on the market by June (UCE only). There are also springs, titanium retainers, non pump up lifters and several pistons.
There are several iterations. Some from Europe and some we have developed for a Factory sponsored Bonneville project. (master minded by Matt Capri if you are interested and want to google him). We are also developing some very sophisticated heads with one piece SS valves and beryllium seats. All are being made by some of the best speed merchants in Southern CA.

solg

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Re: Higher lift with stock cams - a possibility?
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2014, 11:22:29 PM »
Time flies like an arrow
Fruit flies like a banana!

ace.cafe

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Re: Higher lift with stock cams - a possibility?
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2014, 02:03:48 PM »
High lift cams should be on the market by June (UCE only). There are also springs, titanium retainers, non pump up lifters and several pistons.
There are several iterations. Some from Europe and some we have developed for a Factory sponsored Bonneville project. (master minded by Matt Capri if you are interested and want to google him). We are also developing some very sophisticated heads with one piece SS valves and beryllium seats. All are being made by some of the best speed merchants in Southern CA.

Well Kevin, that's interesting news!

We shall see what they present, and perhaps we can find ways to apply those parts to good use.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Higher lift with stock cams - a possibility?
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2014, 05:14:12 PM »
We will see. As you know it always takes more time than you think. We have the cams, piston and heads ready for testing but I am sure we are going to have to tweak the cams. Then we will see what the cost  ends up being. At any rate I expect that there will be lots of speed parts from many different vendors within the next year.

1 Thump

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Re: Higher lift with stock cams - a possibility?
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2014, 08:23:41 PM »
.....As you know it always takes more time than you think....

Aint that the truth ...

Nixie

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Re: Higher lift with stock cams - a possibility?
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2014, 05:48:50 AM »
We've been working on a couple designs for about a year now with great results. Making adequate lift was the easy first step, preventing premature block wear was the second hurdle. Cost effective manufacturing without sacrificing our design is whats next. Here's a sneak peak at our latest prototype:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSYbmCvktaI

They should be ready in the next few months.

Hey, its great to see this! How much do these affect the jetting of the mikuni?

My Bike should be nicely run-in by the time these are ready  ;)

ace.cafe

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Re: Higher lift with stock cams - a possibility?
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2014, 12:55:14 PM »
Hey, its great to see this! How much do these affect the jetting of the mikuni?

My Bike should be nicely run-in by the time these are ready  ;)

Hasn't had any effects on jetting on the test bike.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Nixie

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Re: Higher lift with stock cams - a possibility?
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2014, 01:38:07 PM »
Thanks Ace, I presumed there would be. So its just bolt in and go!

Chris

ace.cafe

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Re: Higher lift with stock cams - a possibility?
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2014, 02:22:38 PM »
Yes.
You'll need to re-adjust your tappet clearance, of course.
Possibly some idle speed adjustment might be needed.

The general effects are a bit more torque all through the range, especially at the higher rpms, and some additional top rpm extension.
Basically, at allows you to access the extra 7 cfrm(202 cfm) that the Fireball port flows at the new higher peak lift(.410" lift), and also gives more open time at all the lifts beneath that, so that the area under the lift curve gets a nice overall increase.
Chumma has been running these prototypes on his bike for more than a year. They work great. The only reason that are not out on the market yet is because of difficulty getting them produced at a cost low enough for the Enfield market.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
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Chuck D

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Re: Higher lift with stock cams - a possibility?
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2014, 03:23:45 PM »
I've ridden Chumma's bike with these rockers in and let me tell you, it's pretty friggin' awesome. And I already have a Fireball.
2006 Bullet Sixty-5 w/ Ace "Fireball 535" Kit (#10)
Ace "GP" head in the works.

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"What's so funny 'bout peace, love, and understandin'?"

Nixie

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Re: Higher lift with stock cams - a possibility?
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2014, 03:44:16 PM »
Well so far the cost of the fireball has been worth it to me, As I said I've yet to complete the run-in, but once these are ready, It will be nice to have another boost :)

Chris

ace.cafe

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Re: Higher lift with stock cams - a possibility?
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2014, 04:43:28 PM »
I would like to expound a little bit on the lift vs port flow subject.

Best results from higher lift come when the port is capable to flow more air at the higher valve lifts. If the port flow has flattened-off, and doesn't gain much(or anything) at higher valve lifts, then it is a much smaller kind of gain. In that circumstance, the flow is really only improved by more time open at the valve lifts that it can flow well at.

So, when we port a head, we ensure that it can flow well at all the lifts which we anticipate using on that head.

For the record, virtually all the stock Enfield heads flatten-off their flow at a lift of .350" or lower. At lifts higher than .350", it would be strongly advised to have a ported head which has been flow bench tested to show that the ports can make best use of that higher lift height.  All Ace heads will do that.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AcePerformanceBullets/info

ERC

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Re: Higher lift with stock cams - a possibility?
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2014, 09:55:01 PM »
Ace what do you mean by readjusting tappet clearance. Do you still adjust them for almost tight or do you give them a little looser adjustment.  ERC
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ace.cafe

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Re: Higher lift with stock cams - a possibility?
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2014, 10:11:06 PM »
Ace what do you mean by readjusting tappet clearance. Do you still adjust them for almost tight or do you give them a little looser adjustment.  ERC

This is a very perceptive question!

There are two answers.
My comment to re-adjust tappet clearances was a simple answer that since there are changes to the rockers, the previous pushrod length would probably not be right, and would need to be adjusted to fit the new rockers.
However, the rocker ratio does affect the behavior of the valves, and  the lash ramp of the cam must be considered. In order to maintain the same lash ramp timing for take-up of the valve lash, and to avoid changes to the timing at the .012" points, the general rule-of-thumb is to increase the lash adjustment by about .001" per tenth of rocker ratio. So, in this case with 1.15:1 ratio, it would be appropriate to add about a thou to a thou-and-a-half of cold lash when using these rockers. If not, the valves will begin to open while the cam is still on the lash ramp.
But, this is such a small ratio increase that if a person used the same "zero lash cold" adjustment as before, he'd simply add a degree or so to the duration, and probably not even have any notable effect at all on the lash ramp effectiveness.
When we go to higher rocker ratios, we do recommend that the lash be increased, and we also let the owners know that they can do some "fine-tuning" by using less or more lash in their final adjustment.
In the case of these Shotgun Rockers, it really isn't critical, but as long as you asked, I gave you the technical answer. ;D
« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 12:02:59 AM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AcePerformanceBullets/info