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Author Topic: New sound that doesn't sound good  (Read 825 times)

Philatawgrapher

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New sound that doesn't sound good
« on: May 18, 2014, 12:21:04 AM »
I know that diagnosing motorcycle sounds on a forum is like going into a music store and saying, "You know that song? You know the one. What's it called?" Very unlikely that anyone can help without actually hearing it. But just in case this is a common problem that everyone (but me) already knows about, here goes:

I have a 2014 C5 that has about 740 miles on it. Two days ago it started making a new sound. The best way I can think to describe it is that it sounds like there's a loose nut inside the gas tank that is vibrating against the tank wall. It's similar to the sound vibrating keys might make against a handlebar, but much deeper.

The sound is loud enough to hear through earplugs, and occurs in any gear so long as the RPMs are relatively high. (There's no tach on the Enfield, but I'd guess that if idle is around 1000 rpm, then the sound starts happening at around 2600 rpm (close to when the mirrors start to get pretty shaky.) It sounds like it's coming from the gas tank, or directly under the tank.

I've looked for anything loose, hugged the gas tank, played with the filler cover, and tried to pinpoint the location with the assistance of several sets of friendly ears. I can't find anything obvious, nor can I tell precisely where it's coming from (which makes me think that it must be inside the engine). What it sounds the most like is loose valves. But I was under the impression that the C5 doesn't have adjustable valves.

Performance has not noticeably changed.

I know it's not much to go on, but I'm hoping someone else has already faced this and will immediately recognize the issue.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 01:23:41 AM by Philatawgrapher »

Decker

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2014, 01:22:40 AM »
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Philatawgrapher

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2014, 01:48:23 AM »
Tough to tell. I think the noise in that video sounds much more like an exhaust sound than the one I have. The one I have is sharper, and sounds a lot more like metal-to-metal.

It's only iPhone audio, but I just recorded this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMo6_0zyIeY

DanB

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2014, 03:49:42 AM »
@Philatawgrapher.  All i hear are valves on your video.  To my ear, I dont hear anything wrong. 

@Decker.  Something is loose.  Mine sounded like that after i pulled the tank.  The front bolts were not tight enough.  I'd check all the easy stuff first: Exhaust, head steady, fender stays, etc...

Just my humble opinion.
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heloego

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2014, 03:35:45 PM »
If the sound only recently appeared it's possible a bit of slap due to the hydraulic lifters not filling properly.
I'm not yet enough of a recip mechanic to say for certain, so does anyone else wanna chime in?
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azcatfan

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2014, 04:02:07 PM »
If it was one of the Iron bikes I'd say that sounds near normal to me.

Don't these UCEs have an 'auto decomp' on the exhaust valve?  If so I'd trouble shoot for that.  Does it only do it when first running but goes away after a while?  I've heard the decomp in the UCEs tends to do that. 

Good luck...
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heloego

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2014, 04:35:18 PM »
The decomp in my UCE gives some rattle generally only during the first warmup of the day. After that I don't even hear it.

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Arizoni

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2014, 10:39:31 PM »
The few times my auto decompression failed to retract the engine oil was very cold.  I blamed the thick oil for the thing hanging up.
Anyway, while it was making noise it sounded like, "CLACK...CLACK...CLACK..." and the sound was at 1/2 of the engine speed.  The sound was very noticeable.  Not at all like the sounds in the above videos.

Slightly reving up the engine while the decomp was clacking made it retract so it stopped making noise. :)

In Philatawgrapher's video I do hear something in the background that sounds like someone tapping a swizzle stick inside a metal cup.  Is that the sound were trying to figure out?  I have no idea what it could be.
Jim
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singhg5

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2014, 12:03:03 AM »
Philatawgrapher on your video, I hear the valve train tapping sound which is quite common in many RE motorcycles. And the general consensus is it is OK. My bike also has it.

The sound I am talking about is also present at idle, though slowly and softly. In your video even in the first one second it is audible. Unless you have another video where there is no 'bad' sound at all at idle.

« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 12:07:23 AM by singhg5 »
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Decker

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2014, 04:07:25 AM »
Sorry if I confused anyone. Posted the video( found on you tube) as a way of possibly identifying the sound and not as an indication I was having any problems. :-[ My G5 is running better every day ( also makes a few new sounds everyday). Almost 3000 k's and counting.  :) Just love my new RE.
"Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry."
Honda cx 500 custom - stolen
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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2014, 04:18:23 AM »
Someone once told me that if your old car or bike makes weird sounds, unless it does it three days in a row don't worry about it :)

Philatawgrapher

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2014, 07:48:28 PM »
sounds like someone tapping a swizzle stick inside a metal cup.  Is that the sound were trying to figure out?

Yes. That's the sound.

The sound is only at RPMs above idle, and is constant whether the bike is cold or hot, no matter how long it's ridden. It's there from start up to shut down. It doesn't seem to vary with speed or gear.

I took it to the dealer today who couldn't determine its origin, but said it sounded normal to him. So, I'll keep riding it until something goes horribly wrong. :)

mattsz

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2014, 09:54:40 PM »
It's the sudden new sounds that make me nervous.  If that's "normal", then what was wrong with it before when it wasn't making the noise?  Maybe nothing... ?

Philatawgrapher

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good--IDENTIFIED
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2014, 11:43:39 PM »
Problem identified!

The bike was on the side stand, and the fuel in the tank was down to less than half after today's long ride. When I uprighted the bike, I heard metal sliding in the tank. Looking around inside it with a flashlight and a magnet on a pole, I found a ring of metal moving loosely inside the tank.

This ring is too large to come out the filler, so I'm assuming it was supposed to be attached beneath the filler hole.

I'm guessing the whole tank will need replacing?

Arizoni

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2014, 11:49:01 PM »
That could be the source of the noise but probably not.  Fluids tend to dampen out any vibration that a small part would make.

Whatever is causing the noise, it sounds like something a piece of thin sheet metal would make if it was lightly vibrating against something.  With that high of a pitch it isn't likely to be something large like a mud guard although the brackets on the fuel tank are small enough to buzz that fast.  Maybe something in the horn?

I don't think it's anything coming from inside the engine.  Usually engine buzzes are directly related to the engine speed and change as the engine speed changes.

As for the metal ring, if the filler neck on the tank is secure it might be something that was a part of the fuel pump.  Maybe something that holds the fuel filter in place?
Call up your dealer and tell him or his mechanic what you've found.
They should know if it is something that needs to be repaired.
Jim
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hogdad

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2014, 01:18:34 PM »

I'm curious to have someone identify what that ring is.
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High On Octane

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2014, 01:49:50 PM »
That could be the source of the noise but probably not.  Fluids tend to dampen out any vibration that a small part would make.

Whatever is causing the noise, it sounds like something a piece of thin sheet metal would make if it was lightly vibrating against something.  With that high of a pitch it isn't likely to be something large like a mud guard although the brackets on the fuel tank are small enough to buzz that fast.  Maybe something in the horn?

I don't think it's anything coming from inside the engine.  Usually engine buzzes are directly related to the engine speed and change as the engine speed changes.

As for the metal ring, if the filler neck on the tank is secure it might be something that was a part of the fuel pump.  Maybe something that holds the fuel filter in place?
Call up your dealer and tell him or his mechanic what you've found.
They should know if it is something that needs to be repaired.

He said he was around a half tank and on the side stand, if that metal ring was sitting towards the top-front of the center hump of the tank, it would be very possible that only part of that ring was exposed from the fuel which would explain why it is such a low pitched vibration.  I also agree that it cannot be inside of the motor as the pitch is not consistent with engine speed.

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Ragmas

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2014, 05:00:35 PM »
The things I have found that Rattle on my bike. 

1. The little flap that covers the keyhole on my gas cap.
2. The heatshield on my exhaust.
3. The center stand pivot bar thing. (only after removing center stand)
4. My headlight.  The headlight rests in a "bowl".  That bowl is pressed via springs and screws against three "fingers".  I solved this rattle by using some cut up inner tube as dampeners between "bowl" and "fingers".
5. Everything else.

That last one is a joke.

Samgar
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Philatawgrapher

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2014, 06:47:57 PM »
I should have provided more detail about that ring of metal.

So, the bike was on its side stand. I think the low fuel caused more sloshing when I pushed the bike upright, providing less cushion to the ring when it moved. I usually use the center stand, so that may be why I never heard it before when moving the bike. (There's enough room front to back that the ring wouldn't hit the sidewalls of the tank when getting the bike on and off the center stand, but lateral motion made it strike the side of the tank.)

When I moved the bike upright, I heard metal clanking in the tank. I moved the bike sideways a few more times to make sure it was coming from the tank, and it was clear it was. I popped the cap and peered in with a flashlight. The ring was sitting in the right front lobe of the tank. It looked odd, but I assumed it could be a baffle or maybe some protective piece for some sensor and at first ignored it. I didn't see anything else in any other part of the tank (though the view inside from the filler is obviously limited), so I wiggled the bike while looking to see what moved. The ring immediately slid back, so I knew it was unattached. I got a magnet pen which grabbed the ring easily. It's completely free floating. In the picture, I pulled it up to the filler hole to make it as visible as possible.

It's a much wider diameter than the filler hole. I don't know if the fuel pump hole is large enough to get it out either.

But even assuming I can get it out, that still leaves the question of why it was in there in the first place. Was it supposed to be under the filler hole to protect from fuel spray or something? (This is the only Enfield I have, so I don't know what the inside of another tank looks like.) Is it supposed to protect the fuel pump? It's a solid circle, with no holes, indentations, or cutouts on it. If it has a function, removing it isn't really the solution—having it put back where it belongs is.

DanKearney

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2014, 09:23:16 PM »
Good Sleuthing.  Regardless of what it is and how it got there, your bike is a 2014.  Sounds like time for the dealer to honor the warranty and fix this for you.

Cheers,

Dan K.
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heloego

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2014, 02:16:19 AM »
Nothing in the Parts Manual matches the piece in your pic.
Feel around with your finger inside the Filler. There should be an additional flange that serves as a splash guard. If it's not there, get it to a Dealer for warranty work.
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Philatawgrapher

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2014, 06:19:36 PM »
The dealer conclusion was that the part is the filler hole splash guard. A new tank is on order.

I'm 99.9% positive that the mystery noise was this part rattling around in the tank. I'll put the mystery to its final rest after the new tank is installed.

hogdad

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2014, 10:15:46 PM »

Phil, did the dealer say that the splash guard is welded in the tank or press fit, or what?

Did he ever see or hear of this happening, or are you special?
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Philatawgrapher

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Re: New sound that doesn't sound good
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2014, 03:37:23 AM »
Of course I'm special! My mother even said so!

But no--dealer hadn't ever heard of this happening.

I do not know whether it is press fit or welded, but from what I can see of the part through the filler hole, there doesn't appear to be any welding. I would assume a press fit.

I'm still waiting on the new tank.