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Author Topic: The Blackhawk Cafe Project  (Read 1134 times)

High On Octane

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The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« on: May 31, 2014, 12:30:43 PM »
Well, it looks like everything is going to pan out with insurance.  I really wish I could've met with the claims adjuster yesterday but he said he would make sure to meet with me on Monday to get me a check for the insurance claim.  I'm going to be getting enough money to give the bike a full make over and replace some needed parts that have been getting neglected for awhile.  I was really pissed at this situation at first, but now it seems to be a blessing in disguise.  So far, this is what is on the agenda for the make over:

-New fork seals and springs
-New alternator & mounting bracket and rectifier
-New headlight ring and yellow H4 bulb
-New rear sets
-New Dime City "PHAT" cafe seat/fender
-New center stand and retaining spring
-New custom paint that will be even better than the first job



I'm not getting quite as much money as I had hoped for, but I'll be getting enough to replace all the major parts I need.  I still have to figure out how to afford some clip on bars and some new rear shocks too.


This is the seat pan I've decided to use as you can order it with a matching seat pad and it isn't much more than if I tried to fabricate something myself.

http://www.dimecitycycles.com/legendary-motorcycles-abs-plastic-phat-cafe-racer-motorcycle-seat-pan.html





I've also been looking at these rear shocks for awhile now and I think am going to give them a try.  The price is right and they are fully tunable.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281163855481?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT




If everything goes to plan, I'm going to be doing a BUNCH of online shopping Monday evening.  ;D


Scottie J
Scottie J
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1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer

ace.cafe

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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2014, 12:45:18 PM »
Have fun!
 ;D

Seat looks good.
I don't know anything about the shocks. They look good.
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High On Octane

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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2014, 01:01:40 PM »
Have fun!
 ;D

Seat looks good.
I don't know anything about the shocks. They look good.

Thanks Tom!  BTW I have a feeling the new heads are going to be going on the Blackhawk for awhile.  You know, to make sure they are working properly.  ;D  I also have an idea for the gas tank as I won't have the money for a new one for a while.  So I was thinking of taking the original, size XXXL tank and hammering in the entire side of both sides of the tank.  This will give it a unique 1-of-a-kind look and also slim it down for more handlebar clearance.  Basically, both sides of the tank will completely dished in.  I'm then going to paint the dished parts of the tank and a stripe down the center top that will be marbleized gold paint with red pin striping.  Then on the top of the tank, on one side of the center stripe will be a small gold "Indian" logo and on the other side of the top will be a small gold "Royal Enfield" logo with my "Bulldog Kustoms" logo on the sides of the tank on the gold marbleized paint.  Tom, I also want to throw a "ACE PERFORMANCE" sticker on my paint job somewhere as well.  Can you help me out with that?

Also, Tom I'm considering converting from dual exhaust to a Y-pipe single exhaust.  I have heard that a Y-pipe (or dual exhaust with a H-pipe) helps the motor perform better with a better tuned exhaust frequency.  I have also heard that this style exhaust has better scavenging properties and can help with torque.  If I do this I think I am going to use a FMF silencer like Bullet Whisperer is using on his race bikes.  What are your thoughts on doing this?  ???

Scottie J
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 01:15:31 PM by High On Octane »
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2014, 01:18:43 PM »
Thanks Tom!  BTW I have a feeling the new heads are going to be going on the Blackhawk for awhile.  You know, to make sure they are working properly.  ;D  I also have an idea for the gas tank as I won't have the money for a new one for a while.  So I was thinking of taking the original, size XXXL tank and hammering in the entire side of both sides of the tank.  This will give it a unique 1-of-a-kind look and also slim it down for more handlebar clearance.  Basically, both sides of the tank will completely dished in.  I'm then going to paint the dished parts of the tank and a stripe down the center top that will be marbleized gold paint with red pin striping.  Then on the top of the tank, on one side of the center stripe will be a small gold "Indian" logo and on the other side of the top will be a small gold "Royal Enfield" logo with my "Bulldog Kustoms" logo on the sides of the tank on the gold marbleized paint.  Tom, I also want to throw a "ACE PERFORMANCE" sticker on my paint job somewhere as well.  Can you help me out with that?

Scottie J

Yes, but I'm out of stickers right now. I'll let you know when I have them.

Regarding the tank, if you look at a lot of the old racers and cafe bikes from that time period with clip-ons, they have "clearance dents" purposely formed into the forward sides of the tank, so the bars don't pinch your thumbs against the tank. You could easily hammer them in, and also hammer the rear sides in for tucking your knees in tight against the tank. Leave the area in between wide. That's the way they did it back in the day. You can look up some photos of the old cafe tanks like the Manx Sprint tank, and see examples.
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High On Octane

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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2014, 01:31:40 PM »
Wow, of all the pics I just looked at I think I only saw 3 or 4 bikes with that style of tank mod,  I like it!  Also, did you see I modified that last post with another question?

Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2014, 02:35:36 PM »
Wow, of all the pics I just looked at I think I only saw 3 or 4 bikes with that style of tank mod,  I like it!  Also, did you see I modified that last post with another question?

Scottie J

Yes, the Y pipe can help scavenging and power on a twin. It needs to have the right design, and since the pickings are scarce for that bike, you probably have to just hope that whoever made that siamese pipe for the twins knew what they were doing.
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2014, 12:53:18 PM »
Geesh.....  I don't think I've ever wanted a weekend to be over so quickly.  LOL   ;D  Not too often one actually looks forward to a Monday, eh.

Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2014, 04:31:56 PM »
Scottie - I've seen guys make those dents by cutting out those sections, swapping the sides that they are on, and welding them back.  It requires a little bending, I'm sure.

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High On Octane

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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2014, 06:40:32 PM »
Scottie - I've seen guys make those dents by cutting out those sections, swapping the sides that they are on, and welding them back.  It requires a little bending, I'm sure.

Boggy

I've heard of that technique before, unfortunately I don't know how to TIG weld and that is the only way to make sure you have an air/water tight weld/seal.  I am pretty damn handy with a hammer tho.  ;)

Good news is I just received and deposited the check into my account.  Time to go shopping!!!

Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2014, 03:37:38 AM »
All parts are ordered except for the seat pan, rear shocks and clip ons.         ;D
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2014, 12:54:28 PM »
Holy effing elephant crap!  I just tried leaving for work and my stupid bank froze my account again because of my purchase from Hitchcocks.  So I came home to look at things and they charged 71 GBP for shipping and handling!!!  #$@!$&^*((^$$&     >:(    Freaking crooks!   The order just ended up costing me $100 more than anticipated.  Doesn't look like I'll be ordering the seat or shocks any time soon now.   :(    After my deductible I only got $1050, the order from H's is just shy of $800 and I spent about $175 on electrical parts yesterday.  I'm pretty much tapped out.    Shit.   :-\
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2014, 07:13:41 PM »
You think your pissed?

Just wait until your wife tries to buy some groceries at the store and they tell her she's broke. :(
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2014, 08:14:11 PM »
Holy effing elephant crap!  I just tried leaving for work and my stupid bank froze my account again because of my purchase from Hitchcocks.  So I came home to look at things and they charged 71 GBP for shipping and handling!!!  #$@!$&^*((^$$&     >:(    Freaking crooks!   The order just ended up costing me $100 more than anticipated.  Doesn't look like I'll be ordering the seat or shocks any time soon now.   :(    After my deductible I only got $1050, the order from H's is just shy of $800 and I spent about $175 on electrical parts yesterday.  I'm pretty much tapped out.    Shit.   :-\

Thats my only hate with hitchcocks, no pre purchase shipping info :/


Also The Blackhawk Cafe would be a great cafe name... ::)
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2014, 08:48:05 PM »
You think your pissed?

Just wait until your wife tries to buy some groceries at the store and they tell her she's broke. :(

This time doesn't count.  I used insurance money.   ;D
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2014, 12:12:45 AM »
Holy Smokes!  I ordered my alternator, Tympanium and headlight ring from The Bonneville Shop Monday night, they shipped it out yesterday morning and was in my mailbox when I got home today!  Too bad I can't install any of it until my mounting ring shows up from Hitchcocks.

Scottie J
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2014, 04:37:30 PM »
I'm going to have find a new bank/credit union.  On top of all the BS fees they already hit me with, I discovered this morning that they are now charging me $7.89 for "international fees".  I called them and at first the guy is like "oh, we didn't charge you that visa did"  then his story changed to "well you should've been charged for those other transactions from the past but there was a glitch in the computer system".  I literally told him that they can kiss my ass and I'm not giving then any more of my hard earned money.  Why are businesses, particularity government run businesses so freaking greedy these days.  It makes me sick.

Scottie J
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2014, 04:53:16 PM »
Who did you call about the $7.89?  ERC
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High On Octane

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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2014, 05:01:23 PM »
My credit union, they are the ones who charged it.  I've never been charged before on any international orders......
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2014, 01:01:05 AM »
I can't believe it!  I just got home with dinner and I saw a parcel note on the table from USPS.  My parts from Hitchcocks are already here!    :o    ???   ;D

Looks like I'm going to be wrenching on the bike tomorrow.  ;D
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2014, 02:48:09 AM »
After looking at the notice the post office left I saw that the package is marked Priority Mail Express.  I don't feel quite so bad now about spending $120 on shipping, it looks like I got my moneys worth.  3 days from England to Denver.  I have noticed that living in an international city, my packages generally arrive within 5 days time no matter where it's coming from.  :D  A lot of stuff that I buy on Ebay stateside shows up in 2-3 days from order.  Except Hitchcocks if I order without tracking.  Last 2 orders without tracking both took 2 1/2 weeks.   :-\  Anyways, I'm happy and excited to get this project rolling tomorrow!    ;D

Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2014, 02:40:10 PM »
Alright!  Party Time!










I grabbed my parts this morning from the post office.  Everything was there and all looks good.  I'm excited to not only have the electrical issues fixed once and for all, but I'm SUPER excited to fit these rear sets!  I've been eyeballing them for over a year and I finally had an opportunity to buy them without emptying my wallet and having to listen to wife say "Why do you spend all of your money on your bike?"  ;D

OK, I have some work to do!  Will report back later today.  Quick question tho....  The neutral finder will still work with the rear sets correct?  I would just need to remove my foot from the peg to use it, right?  I ask because I see that the rear set kit came with a neutral finder blanking kit, but I really enjoy using the neutral finder........     ???

Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2014, 03:07:34 PM »
Congrats! Also, Wow, after having recently done my own alternator, that one looks puny!  I didn't realize the ES versions were so much bigger than the KS.

Have fun!
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2014, 03:27:34 PM »
I always love the way they pack them with newspaper instead of those shitty bubbles that stick to everything.  ERC
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2014, 08:26:39 PM »
What a PITA. Got started by removing the primary cover and discovered that the tensioner had completely removed itself and it was in fact what I was hearing/feeling clank off of the primary cover so I'm glad I didn't ride it anymore.  Problem is that when it fell out it ripped out all of the threads too so I had to get an oversized bolt (M10x1.25) a new tap and a couple of new drill bits.  Got it all to work but not without making 4 different trips and putting 25 miles on my car driving around in a 3 mile radius from my apartment.     :-\  Then I couldn't for the life of me get the alternator to line up properly even after drilling out the mounting holes.  I was seriously ready to say screw it for the day when on the last fastening of the nuts I finally got the feeler gauge to go all the way around the rotor.    :P  My back is pretty angry at me so I'm taking a short break.  Then I'll be going back out to install the rear sets.  :)

Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2014, 10:50:48 PM »
Why can't anything be easy?  "Install brake light switch/pedal stop bracket into the threaded hole just behind the tapered hole with the 1/2" bolt."  Yeah my frame doesn't have that threaded hole, not does the supplied brake rod fit.  I used the old brake rod but I'm going to have to do some custom fab to make a brake stop or make the new one work.    :-\
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2014, 12:15:53 AM »
Holy crap, my back is not happy, and I'm out of herb.  It's making it difficult to focus on this damn project when I feel like I have an elephant standing on the small of my back.    :'(

Anyways, I was able to make the brake lever stop by using the original lever stop hole and bolt and added a piece of flat metal to the bolt hole and stuck a piece of rubber hose over the metal.  Crude but functional until I can figure out what I really want to do.  I will just use the existing brake light switch for now until remedied.  Installed the right side controls too.  Turns out it is necessary to remove the neutral finder as it is in the way of the shifter linkage.  Seems like it is adjusted correctly and working as it shifts in and out of 1st gear with ease (motor not running, waiting for silicone and loctite to dry inside the primary before I fill it).  Just need to throw the exhaust back on and then all I have left is the center stand and fork springs.  But I think I will take my bike into work and do that in the shop.  I'm thinking of just wrapping some straps around the bike and hoisting it in the air with the overhead lift.  That should make it super easy to do the center stand and also make it easy to remove the front end to do the  fork springs and seals.  I'll post all of the pics once I'm completely done.  OK, going back at it again!    :D

Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2014, 12:19:58 AM »
OH!!!  Annnnnd  Hitchcocks totally neglects to tell you on the website or ordering process that the "cafe racer side stand is needed for the engine/frame mount bolt to fasten tightly and correctly."  I wish I had known that before I ordered, I would have ordered a new side stand instead of a center stand for the same price.  I ended up making ANOTHER trip to Ace Hardware and bought some machine bushes and cannibalized a 13mm deep socket for spacers and bushings.
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2014, 11:54:44 AM »
OK, here's the Pics as promised.   :)

I was about to start working on my bike in my car port when I started thinking "Man, I know this is going to be a big project and I KNOW I'm going to be making at least 1 trip to the store."  Bottom line, I didn't trust my tools just chilling around my car port for anyone to take willy nilly the second I turn my back.  So I moved my garage to the front door!  The look on my wife's face when she got home from work was priceless!  Her face said "What the hell are you doing with your motorcycle torn apart on the front door step" combined with "Well, this is shocking, yet some how doesn't surprise me."  And then when I explained why I had the bike there she actually said "Well, that makes sense.  See?!  Sometimes you just have to make the best out of what you have."  It's weird when shes nice to me while I'm working on the bike.  ;D





Next, the primary situation.  Like I said yesterday, I pulled the cover and the tensioner damn near flopped to the ground.





Mid-Chaos, this is what the wife came home too.  ;D





OH, and I removed this lovely gem from the foot rest/motor mount bar that runs underneath.  Glad they send a new 1 with the kit.





Right side rear set installed





Left rear set installed.  You can see by the arrow how I made a lever stop by taking a piece of flat metal with a piece of rubber hose around it and mounted it to the original lever stop mounting hole.





And just before the sun went down for the day.











Scottie J
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 11:57:02 AM by High On Octane »
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2014, 12:04:49 PM »
Looks good!

I guess the neutral finder was in the way, huh?
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2014, 12:12:57 PM »
Yep, it sure was.  The shift linkage rides right over the top of where the N finder goes.  Seems to shift pretty well without the motor running, and I don't believe the clutch is dragging at all now, so I should be OK.  The last few rides I was out I was figuring out the perfect technique for down shifting manually.  I had been having lots of problems before where I would go to downshift and go into a horrible loop of false neutrals where it would take several attempts to find ANY gear.  I think I finally got the clutch adjusted correctly and figured out the loving touch and pretty much eliminated that problem.  Looks like I'll be rumbling up to every stop light now instead of kicking the NF and cruising up to the light all cool and casual.   ;D

Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2014, 12:47:17 PM »
That lever stop will be fine I did that on one I put together.  ERC
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2014, 01:01:57 PM »
That lever stop will be fine I did that on one I put together.  ERC

Great minds think alike.  :)
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2014, 01:26:40 PM »
I'm not sure I could ride my iron barrel without the N-finder!  Nothing like coasting to a stop with the clutch lever out, I love that little lever.  Too bad you had to ditch it  :'(
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2014, 01:35:56 PM »
The 5-speeds don't have it. You get used to downshifting after a while.
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High On Octane

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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2014, 02:10:14 PM »
The 5-speeds don't have it. You get used to downshifting after a while.

I need to get used to downshifting this bike smoothly anyhow, I want to start doing some road racing.  The Auto Sports Complex I did the flat track racing at also has a paved road course that I went to start playing on.
Scottie J
Denver, CO

1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer

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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2014, 02:50:19 PM »
I still have the sloppy 4 on the left so the N-finder gets used all the time.  Down shifting isn't the problem, hitting neutral is though.  I bet the 5 speeds are much better, the RHS kit for this bike will come in time...

Nice work on the bike so far, glad you decided to keep with it  8)
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2014, 04:50:29 PM »
Don't know if this might be of interest, but here's how it was done [originally] on the Bob Mcintyre Super Meteor for the 1958 Thruxton 500 miler. It took a bit of working out until I found the original R.H. exhaust pipe, then it all became clear  ;)

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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2014, 05:04:55 PM »
BW - I've seen that bike posted on here before.  The rear sets are definitely a different set up than Hitchcocks sells.


I took a short ride around the block and all seems well, except finding neutral.  THAT is going to take some getting used to.  lol  The bike shifts fine, but now has a completely different feel, and it feels the part.  It seriously feels like riding a 60's race bike.  Downshifting is going to take some practice as the trans is a little hard shifting to begin with and I need to get used to the angle of my feet.  Need to tighten the rear brake rod a little bit too.  Going go grab some lunch with the wife and then I'll go out for an afternoon ride and see how she's doing.  Also, leaking ATF out of the primary already and I noticed it looks like it's coming from where it mounts to the engine case.  I must not have put enough sealer on that flange to run it gasketless.  And I didn't use a gasket because I wanted to make absolutely sure that the bolt holes were fixed and not going to loosen up again.  Oh well.  I'm used to pissing anyways.   ;D

Scottie J
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2014, 10:03:52 PM »
Went to lunch with the wife and it started raining.  Go figure.  It had slowed to a drizzle at around 2:30 so I went out for a short ride in town.  All in all the new stance is pretty comfy.  The bike shifts nice but something must be up with the clutch lever.  I get it to where the cable slack feels good but the clutch slips, I back it out and it stops slipping but then it starts to drag.  i guess I'm going to have to replace the levers after all.  I didn't have too many problems getting into neutral but there were a couple of times I had a problem.  It got stuck in 2nd at one light and I ended up stalling the bike trying to get back to 1st, luckily I got it kicked over again before the light turned red.  About 20 minutes into the ride it started to actually rain again so I just headed back home.

The only 2 issues that I see so far is that you have to raise the right foot peg to kick start or your heel will hit the peg.  And you have to raise the left foot peg to get the bike on the center stand or you will take the peg right in the shin as you try to roll in onto the stand.  Both remedied by raising the foot pegs out of the way.  A bit inconvenient but tolerable.

Also, I'm a little disappointed.  The exhaust headers are sealed tighter than a dolphins asshole now.  No more entertaining backfires out of the exhaust.   :(

Scottie J
« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 10:17:30 PM by High On Octane »
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2014, 06:59:47 PM »
Rode the bike to work today and the clutch is still slipping pretty bad and also leaking ATF really bad.  I have half a mind to drain as much ATF out as possible and only leaving a splash in there.  I'm thinking this is still a residual problem from using the Advance Auto brand type F ATF, I think the plates might be glazed. 

Scottie J
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2014, 03:46:17 PM »
I'm bringing this thread back to life, as I believe that I have come up with a plan for my motor build, and I also have couple questions for the performance guys.

I've been speaking with a gentleman at M.A.P. Cycles, which I believe to be the leader in Brit Bike performance here in the States.  I told him my plans of building, and the fact that no one here in the US sells performance RE parts, and quite frankly, I'm tired of sending my money overseas, paying twice as much for parts, when I should be supporting the struggling economy that I live in.  After about 2 more weeks of research I have come to this conclusion:

I want steel conrods.  I'm not wasting time or money on billet aluminum rods.  I've seen too many pictures of them failing and taking out the engine.  M.A.P. Cycle makes steel H-Beams for Triumphs, BSAs and Nortons.  Upon my research, I have found that the BSA A10 conrods are damn near identical to the RE twin rods.

A10 Specs:
CtC - 6.5"
Small End Dia. - .75"
Big End Diameter - 1.8435"
Big End Width - .955

RE Specs:
CtC - 6.685" (I can't remember exactly, but this is what my memory is saying)
Small End Dia. - .75"
Big End Dia. - 1.8755"
Big End Width - .790" (measured on the crank journal).

Marino at M.A.P. believes that these will work well, and just need to have my machinist alter the big end of the rods to match the crank.  If the RE rods are in fact 6.685" (6 5/8") then using the A10 rods will actually "stroke" the motor.


Upon the recommendations of Bullet Whisperer, I will be using Triumph T120 71mm pistons.  Standard compression for the T120 is 9:1, but the dome of the piston is still 3-4 times bigger than the 8:1 RE piston.  BW recommended using the Wiseco Norman Hyde pistons, as that is what he uses, but there's an issue with this.  Even tho Wiseco is only a couple of states away from me, they will only sell those pistons directly to Norman Hyde.  So, they will more than likely cost a small fortune by the time I have them paid for and shipped.  M.A.P. Cycles sells a very nice forged piston set for $350 and appears to be very high quality.  They also happen to sell a very nice cast piston for the T120 that is only about $120 for the set with rings.  Marino says they are not as good as the forged pistons (obviously) but are "still a high quality piston, especially considering the price".

So, by going with the cast pistons and the steel rods I will only be spending about $600 for both sets.  As compared to $1200 for making custom rods or pistons, or even $1000 for H's sub-par rods and pistons.  Also, I'm going to figure out how to convert my clutch to a dry system to eliminate the slipping.  I think the only real issue that I might run into is the alternator not getting lubricated.  If it burns again, I'll just remove the charging system entirely and look into using a larger battery with a bigger reserve.

And lastly, the wheels.  I'm thinking that because I want to race this bike, and I'm not concerned with either of my bikes being completely original, that I may be better off using the fork and wheels from the Chief for the Blackhawk.  The fork is 1.25" wider than Interceptor fork that I have now, and the wheels are 16" which gives a little bit more options for performance tires.  But, I'm not sure if this will have a positive or negative effect on the handling.  If I do use the wider fork, I will have a custom billet fork brace made to help stabilize the front end.

All in all, my calculations say that I should be able to build the motor for $1800 or slightly less.  then the only other items I will need is tires, a big tach and a cafe seat which should be less than $600 for all of that.


Forged Pistons
http://www.mapcycle.com/map/index.php/categories/engine/top-end/pistons/triumph-t120-tr6-650cc-forged-pistons.html

Cast Pistons
http://www.mapcycle.com/map/index.php/categories/engine/top-end/pistons/triumph-650-1958-later-piston-set.html

4340 Steel H-Beam Rods
http://www.mapcycle.com/map/index.php/categories/engine/bottom-end/con-rods/conrod-a10-late-6-5-4340-h-beam-p-r.html
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 06:26:39 PM by High On Octane »
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2014, 06:08:25 PM »
Scottie you pasted the cast piston link twice.
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2014, 06:27:02 PM »
Oops!  I fixed it.  :)
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2014, 06:46:31 PM »
Scottie if I remember correctly you will have to be careful turning the crank down if you have to cut to much the crank will be soft.  ERC
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2014, 07:28:24 PM »
$200 extra doesn't seem like that much more to pay for the forged set. If you can, I would budget for this set. I see they have a T120 forged sets for $299. Why couldn't you use that set Scottie?
2003 Classic 500 5 spd
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2014, 08:52:02 PM »
Changing rod length will not affect the stroke length of the engine. That can only be done by changing the crankshaft.
However, how high up the piston will come in the bore will be affected, and you will need to adjust the barrel height to suit a different rod length.
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2014, 10:04:00 PM »
Scottie if I remember correctly you will have to be careful turning the crank down if you have to cut to much the crank will be soft.  ERC

The crank is only going to be turned down -.005 and then balanced and plasma-nitride treated.  I will have the rods machined to match the crank so nothing more than necessary will be removed from the crank.

$200 extra doesn't seem like that much more to pay for the forged set. If you can, I would budget for this set. I see they have a T120 forged sets for $299. Why couldn't you use that set Scottie?

I guess I had looked over that set before.  I just may end up spending the little extra for them, as you say, that is only another $200.

Changing rod length will not affect the stroke length of the engine. That can only be done by changing the crankshaft.
However, how high up the piston will come in the bore will be affected, and you will need to adjust the barrel height to suit a different rod length.

Duly noted on the stroke.  And I had taken into consideration the need to machine the barrels.  My thought was to get all the parts and have the crank done and cylinders bored and pre-assemble everything with clay on the piston tops to check to see what clearance I have and then machine or shim accordingly.
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #47 on: November 24, 2014, 10:42:43 PM »
Ace -  What lobe profiles for the cam would you recommend if I have then custom ground?
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2014, 06:29:29 PM »
Started reshaping the tank last night.  WAY more Bondo on the tank than what I spread on it.  Every whack of the hammer a chunk of mud just fell out.  It actually made it difficult too pound because when I'd strike it it wasn't exactly where I wanted because the Bondo was covering an already existing dent.  Should still look good when I'm done.  I think I'm going to order more metal flake and use a larger flake in conjunction with a gold pearl this time.  Should come out extra sexy.  Also, I'm going to do an "8 Ball" design on this job.  It will be a true cafe racer all said and done.



« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 06:32:26 PM by High On Octane »
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2014, 06:33:35 PM »
Also, I'll have to get some clip on or clubman bars because I'm not feeling the super bike bars inverted.
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #50 on: November 26, 2014, 11:23:40 PM »
Glad to see your back working on the bike instead of selling everything.  ERC
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2014, 11:30:36 PM »
Ace -  What lobe profiles for the cam would you recommend if I have then custom ground?

What rpm range are you targeting?
I would look at a similar thing to the R cams from the Interceptor. That seems to be a good pair. Don't over-do what the valve springs can handle. You have to consider all the stuff in the valve train.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2014, 12:22:07 AM »
What rpm range are you targeting?
I would look at a similar thing to the R cams from the Interceptor. That seems to be a good pair. Don't over-do what the valve springs can handle. You have to consider all the stuff in the valve train.
 

I'd like to shift between 6500-6800 if that is possible.

Man, my tank is looking good!   ;D
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2014, 01:01:47 AM »
Last coat of mud, almost ready for primer!  :D
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2014, 04:36:19 AM »
I didn't quite make it to primer.  After 4 straight hours of aggressive sanding my arms gave out and started cramping.  But, this is what it looks like so far.








I realize the sides aren't completely symmetrical but the left side was beat up really bad and it didn't shape the way I wanted it too.  The right side came out perfect tho.
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2014, 04:41:08 AM »
Looks great!

 I think the Interceptor R Cam type profile and a fresh set of Interceptor valve springs should work for that.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2014, 06:14:25 AM »
Ace - Doing some late night browsing and was thinking about about how Mikuni doesn't make a TM30.  So I went onto Amazon to look at the VM30 and realized I can buy TWO VM30's for $30 cheaper than I can buy ONE Amal 930.  I assume the Mikuni VM30 has got to be a better carb than the Amal 930.  Thoughts?

Also, the Interceptor valves and springs are the same as the Constellation and Super Meteor.  So I may just have to fork out a bit more for the beehive springs if we can make them them work with the stock valves.  If they are too much, I'll just order a set of new OE springs.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 06:22:12 AM by High On Octane »
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2014, 11:33:29 AM »
Ace - Doing some late night browsing and was thinking about about how Mikuni doesn't make a TM30.  So I went onto Amazon to look at the VM30 and realized I can buy TWO VM30's for $30 cheaper than I can buy ONE Amal 930.  I assume the Mikuni VM30 has got to be a better carb than the Amal 930.  Thoughts?

Also, the Interceptor valves and springs are the same as the Constellation and Super Meteor.  So I may just have to fork out a bit more for the beehive springs if we can make them them work with the stock valves.  If they are too much, I'll just order a set of new OE springs.
VM30 carbs are fine. The disign actually was licensed from Amal originally, but I think Mikuni did a better job with it. And the Mikuni is always way cheaper than Amal. So that would be the way to go IMO.

 The beehives will not be compatible with the stock valves or stock head in that bike. Much cheaper to buy OEM. That bike should do 6500rpm+ on the stock parts. The Interceptor was rated at 6500 rpm on specs I have seen.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2014, 02:02:50 PM »
Ok great!  As long as I can easily hit 6500-6800 without running into valve bounce I think that should work just fine for now.  Besides, even new OE springs will be better than the 56 year old pieces of metal in there now, right?  ;)
Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2014, 03:27:40 PM »
Yes, springs lose their tension/pressure with use. Newer springs have the advantage of better manufacturing, and they will be fresh. Valve springs should be changed periodically. They don't last forever.
Typically, a valve spring will lose about 10% of its pressure within the first few hours of use, and then settle in for the long haul at about 90%.
Most performance enthusiasts with high revving engines will change valve springs at least once per year. Regular motorists don'need to do that because they aren't pushing the springs to the limit.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #60 on: November 28, 2014, 03:37:55 AM »
Body work on the tank is finished!  Ready for high build primer and then wet sand with 500 grit paper and she'll be ready for paint.







Scottie J
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Re: The Blackhawk Cafe Project
« Reply #61 on: November 28, 2014, 05:08:00 PM »
I had ERC measure a conrod for me (because I don't have one handy and can't for the life of me remember how long it is).  Turns out I was wrong.  It is neither 6 3/8" NOR 6 5/8", it is 6 1/8".  But no worries to be had.  A quick search and found that the A65 and A10 have the same crank journal, only the A10 is 6.5" CtC and the A65 is 6" CtC.  So I'm still in good shape.  :D


http://www.mapcycle.com/map/index.php/categories/engine/bottom-end/con-rods/conrod-a50-a65-6-0-4340-h-beam-pr.html


Also, I just noticed that the Nikisil T120 pistons for $300 are for the Big Bore kits starting sizes at 76mm, which is way to big for my needs.  For 1 it will exceed 750cc which will put me at the bottom of the 850cc bracket for Bonneville.  Plus I don't think the cylinders can take that big of a bore.  So a No-Go on those pistons.

So I'll need to spend $350 for the full race forged pistons:
http://www.mapcycle.com/map/index.php/categories/engine/top-end/pistons/triumph-t120-tr6-650cc-forged-pistons.html
 

Or $100 on the "High Quality" cast pistons, that seriously look like a damn good piston for $100.
http://www.mapcycle.com/map/index.php/categories/engine/top-end/pistons/triumph-650-1958-later-piston-set.html

« Last Edit: November 28, 2014, 05:55:43 PM by High On Octane »
Scottie J
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1958 Enfield/Indian Trailblazer