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Author Topic: Looks Like I Blew My Bat Tree  (Read 671 times)

tooseevee

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Looks Like I Blew My Bat Tree
« on: August 16, 2014, 05:19:49 PM »
       Looks like I have ruined my little kick only AGM battery (picture below).

        I got really pissed the other day because I couldn't kick my '08 to life after it had been starting so good previously. I tried it three times over an hour; each time kicking it at least 6 times which totally kills me.

         So finally I tried the dreaded electric start. Nothing but clicks. Aha!

         Checked it: 12.1V. Put it on charge overnight at 2 Amps with my regular battery charger that I've had for quite a few years. Mistake I guess. The battery was very hot, tested at 13.8V & the bike still would not kickstart even though the headlight, pilots & directionals operated bright as hell the whole time the directionals flashed.

         Tried the electric start. Nothing but clicks.

          I guess I've ruined the battery. PS: I never ride at night, never use the headlight & always use the kicker. I guess I just don't ride it far enough any one time to keep the battery up.

           Comments?

       
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 05:22:25 PM by tooseevee »
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High On Octane

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Re: Looks Like I Blew My Bat Tree
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2014, 05:26:45 PM »
Duralast and Autocraft are some of the crappiest motorcycle batteries I've had to deal with.  They are allegedly made by Johnson Controls, but I'm pretty sure they are made in China or the likes.  Go with a Batteries Plus battery.  They are made by Deka and have a 1 year warranty.  About the same price as those junk AutoZone and Advance batteries.

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azcatfan

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Re: Looks Like I Blew My Bat Tree
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2014, 05:43:53 PM »
I've had pretty good luck with Autozone batteries myself over the course of 20 or so years.  The only batteries I've had fail me prematurely were from battery plus, and they were dicks when it came to backing the sale just 5 days after purchase.

2CV, you had mentioned in other posts that you only get 10 miles or so in to a ride before fatigue sends you back home.  It could well be your rides aren't long enough to put the charge up.  Also, just a thought, could the old  battery charger be starting to fritz?
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Re: Looks Like I Blew My Bat Tree
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2014, 05:59:41 PM »
I've had pretty good luck with Autozone batteries myself over the course of 20 or so years.  The only batteries I've had fail me prematurely were from battery plus, and they were dicks when it came to backing the sale just 5 days after purchase........

Were these car batteries or bike batteries?  When was this?  Deka makes all of Batteries Plus's batteries now, and Dekas are great batteries.   I worked at AutoZone for a year and at Advance for 2 years and I cannot count how many pissed off customers I've had over the motorcycle batteries.  They only have a 90 day warranty they seem to like to fail within a year.  I personally have killed two BS4LBS batteries and one BS5LBS from Advance since I got the Blackhawk on the road.  Granted I did have some electrical problems but I never road far or for long and always kept them fully charged after every ride with the battery tender.  After the 3rd battery I went with a Batteries Plus BS5LBS AGM for $45.

My bike hasn't run in a month and it was another month before that time.  I just checked the battery voltage and it is still holding at 12.6V.  For whatever that is worth.

Scottie J
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azcatfan

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Re: Looks Like I Blew My Bat Tree
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2014, 06:15:17 PM »
This is both car and bike batteries, and mostly for off-road dirt bikes.  Duralast haven't let me down unless I messed them up (by neglecting them) or they were already way past their prime.  Dirt bikes that would get put away for months at a time, then abused when they were taken out with heat and vibration.

It is completely subjective and not worth arguing over everybody's favorite brand of battery.  If 2CV had a decent battery going in to this current situation and now doesn't, it is worth it to look a little past the name brand on the battery as the root cause is all I'm saying.   8)
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Re: Looks Like I Blew My Bat Tree
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2014, 06:48:53 PM »
This is both car and bike batteries, and mostly for off-road dirt bikes.  Duralast haven't let me down unless I messed them up (by neglecting them) or they were already way past their prime.  Dirt bikes that would get put away for months at a time, then abused when they were taken out with heat and vibration.

It is completely subjective and not worth arguing over everybody's favorite brand of battery.  If 2CV had a decent battery going in to this current situation and now doesn't, it is worth it to look a little past the name brand on the battery as the root cause is all I'm saying.   8)

I wasn't trying to argue, I was just curious what your experience was.  And I wasn't trying to say that all Advance and AutoZone batteries are junk either, just I personally have seen a high failure rate.  That's all.
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tooseevee

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Re: Looks Like I Blew My Bat Tree
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2014, 08:01:05 PM »
      Don't fight, boys  :) :) ;) ;)

       I, too, hate discussions over "My shit's better than your shit". Most brand trashing is anecdotal. I might buy an obvious piece of shit & keep it doing what it's supposed to do for years because of how I treat stuff & maintain it. Another person might buy the best of the best & fuck it up in a week. Most people buy Chinese crap nowadays & don't know the difference. Quality doesn't have the same meaning it used to.

        I've had great luck with Yuasa batteries in kick only harleys for many years. Other guys won't touch them with somebody else's 10 foot pole.

         The one battery I would rave about if I was to rave about batteries would be Interstate. I'm gonna try to track down an Interstate AGM of the teeny size I need.

           Do I need to buy a special battery tender for AGM batteries?

            PS: My standard charger is just fine & is only a few years old. It has a 6V circuit & two 12V circuits; a 2 amp & a 6 amp. I used the 2 amp only on this little AGM. It has what seems to be a pretty reliable charge meter that registers from low to 100%. What I DON't know is if it shuts off. It has worked fine the few times I've used it on cars.
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Re: Looks Like I Blew My Bat Tree
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2014, 08:14:37 PM »
Tooseevee,

I wouldn't have thought that a small battery would have the clout (sorry, Cold Cranking Amps) to power the electric starter, which is maybe why you're only getting clicking noises. The factory upped the capacity the 14AH on the E/S AVL for a reason! If your battery, hot or not, has the power to run all the lights brightly there should be more than enough for the ignition, which makes me wonder if a connection has come loose in the ignition circuit or if there's a fuse blown. If you haven't already done so check for a fuse holder with the brown wire that goes to the TCI box.

Shame it's not a small job the machine the AVL right side crankcase for a full set of timing gears and a magneto.

Meanwhile, I have had a Motobatt 14AH on my Electra-X the last two years, it has held up very nicely, but other brands are available!

Regards,

A.

tooseevee

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Re: Looks Like I Blew My Bat Tree
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2014, 09:30:52 PM »
Tooseevee,

I wouldn't have thought that a small battery would have the clout (sorry, Cold Cranking Amps) to power the electric starter, which is maybe why you're only getting clicking noises. The factory upped the capacity the 14AH on the E/S AVL for a reason! If your battery, hot or not, has the power to run all the lights brightly there should be more than enough for the ignition, which makes me wonder if a connection has come loose in the ignition circuit or if there's a fuse blown. If you haven't already done so check for a fuse holder with the brown wire that goes to the TCI box.

Shame it's not a small job the machine the AVL right side crankcase for a full set of timing gears and a magneto.

Meanwhile, I have had a Motobatt 14AH on my Electra-X the last two years, it has held up very nicely, but other brands are available!

Regards,

A.

          I didn't just install this small battery yesterday & I don't have any loose connections or blown fuses. I installed it to get rid of the huge battery, the tray & that stupid hard-to-lock cover I don't need or want because I don't use the electric starter.

            The factory upped the battery in an attempt to keep the starter (an electric bodge on AVLs) from blowing up the sprag clutch too soon. That's the only thing the starter on an AVL is good for.

          Yes. The battery will start the engine 3 or 4 times when it's up to par. I know. I tested it when I first installed it. I don't want it to power the starter except in traffic if I kill the engine & need an instant start to keep from getting run over. I kick start the bike exclusively.

           I believe I've damaged the battery somehow (which I said in the beginning) charging it wrong. AGM batteries are new to me (I'm a dinosaur who's been riding since the '50s). I'll do my homework this time & it WON't happen again.
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ERC

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Re: Looks Like I Blew My Bat Tree
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2014, 09:45:04 PM »
      Don't fight, boys  :) :) ;) ;)

       I, too, hate discussions over "My shit's better than your shit". Most brand trashing is anecdotal. I might buy an obvious piece of shit & keep it doing what it's supposed to do for years because of how I treat stuff & maintain it. Another person might buy the best of the best & fuck it up in a week. Most people buy Chinese crap nowadays & don't know the difference. Quality doesn't have the same meaning it used to.

        I've had great luck with Yuasa batteries in kick only harleys for many years. Other guys won't touch them with somebody else's 10 foot pole.

         The one battery I would rave about if I was to rave about batteries would be Interstate. I'm gonna try to track down an Interstate AGM of the teeny size I need.

           Do I need to buy a special battery tender for AGM batteries?

            PS: My standard charger is just fine & is only a few years old. It has a 6V circuit & two 12V circuits; a 2 amp & a 6 amp. I used the 2 amp only on this little AGM. It has what seems to be a pretty reliable charge meter that registers from low to 100%. What I DON't know is if it shuts off. It has worked fine the few times I've used it on cars.
You can use any charger that won't put more than 14.5 volts in it and not get it to hot. You don't need a special charger.  ERC
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tooseevee

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Re: Looks Like I Blew My Bat Tree
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2014, 12:26:06 AM »
You can use any charger that won't put more than 14.5 volts in it and not get it to hot. You don't need a special charger.  ERC

           Well, ERC, my friend, the empirical evidence seems to show that it was my charger at fault; got it too hot.

            I set my charger on 2 amps & after a number of hours the battery was quite hot. Looking online I've read a lot of articles that say once they get hot they won't hold a charge any more.

             I'm kinda thinking now my charger never shut off at full charge & that I should never have left it overnight.

             All my fault, not the battery's.  Found an Interstate (Cycle-Tron) AGM for $60. It's the only way to prove this one is shot. And I will initial charge it by the book.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 12:29:33 AM by tooseevee »
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Re: Looks Like I Blew My Bat Tree
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2014, 02:45:49 AM »
Just for the record most AGM batteries like a 1.5 amp charge.  Not sure if 2 amp is that big of a difference or not.  I personally have been using a Schumacher Maintenance Free 1.5 amp charger specifically for small engine batteries for the last 4 or 5 years.  You can pick one up Wally World or Advance or just about anywhere for $30 or less.

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azcatfan

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Re: Looks Like I Blew My Bat Tree
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2014, 02:49:16 AM »
Just for the record most AGM batteries like a 1.5 amp charge.  Not sure if 2 amp is that big of a difference or not.  I personally have been using a Schumacher Maintenance Free 1.5 amp charger specifically for small engine batteries for the last 4 or 5 years.  You can pick one up Wally World or Advance or just about anywhere for $30 or less.

Scottie J

All true, and you could get an auto-off design that runs between .750-1.5amp and turns off when fully charged at Harbor Freight for less than $30 as well if one is near by.
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Re: Looks Like I Blew My Bat Tree
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2014, 02:52:12 AM »
That's how the charger I use works.  Once the battery is fully charged it goes into maintenance mode and turns itself on and off as needed.
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tooseevee

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Re: Looks Like I Blew My Bat Tree
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2014, 12:18:01 PM »
    Thanks all you guys; High, ERC & AzCat.

     I hardly ever don't do my homework. I usually OVERdo it. But I really screwed up using my regular car battery charger on this little AGM overnight.

       I've searched the right chargers out this time & will settle on one & order it today. It should be here around the same time as the new battery. I'm gonna hardwire the plug into the bike.
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