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Author Topic: Motor break in oil/, Electrical load?  (Read 1308 times)

Joe28

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Motor break in oil/, Electrical load?
« on: August 04, 2008, 12:22:35 PM »
So, somewhere in the world, my next rig is in pieces, slowly making it's way to it new happy home! :)
Till them I'm gather info and "stuff", (manuals, oil filters, tank bag, windshield(s).
So, when my rig arrives, what weight oil should I use in the motor?
Also, since this is my winter commute rig, can I put a light on the rig, (it's really dark on the back roads going to work!) :o

PhilJ

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Re: Motor break in oil/, Electrical load?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2008, 10:24:31 PM »
Use any motorcycle specific oil of you choice. 20w 50 until at least 300 miles. If your winters are very cold you could drop to 15W 40 (hard to find) or 10W 40. In the gear box  the book calls for 90W gear oil. You can use 70-140 or and gear oil.
The primary, I differ, I use Mobil 1 ATF. Other people differ. I've had no problems from it's use. Your call.

ace.cafe

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Re: Motor break in oil/, Electrical load?
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2008, 12:29:20 PM »
I know that this may be a controversial subject, but for breaking in the engine, I'd look for an older grade of oil in the API ratings, such as SL or before..
The most recent rating is SM, which has changed the additive package to improve catalytic converter life on cars.
In the SM rated oils, they have lowered the levels of ZDDP(a zinc compound) and phosphorous, both of which are friction reducing agents, that were present in higher quantities in the pre-SM formulations of oils.

There is still a fairly good quantity of SL rated oils out there on the shelves, but you may have to look a little harder to find it.

It's worth it, because these ZDDP and phosphorous additives in the older oils are better at protecting cam faces and solid lifters, which we have in our Bullet engines. Most new cars have hydraulic lifters which aren't really affected by this change. But, classic car owners and classic bike owners have noticed increased wear during break-in periods with the new SM oils, so I'd look for some of the SL or earlier type oils, and see if you can find some.

I use straight 40wt SL oil in my Bullet during the summers. I only use multi-wt oils during the winter, and I really don't ride much in winter anyway.
The straight 40wt is okay as long as the temps don't drop below 60*F at night, so that the oil doesn't get too thick for starting up in the morning. In my area, it is always over 60*F in the summer, even at night, so I'm okay with that wt oil.

I do concur that it may be better to use multi-wt oils in the beginning, so that the engine isn't having any difficulty in moving the cold oil around when it's cold.
But try to find some pre-SM grade oil in the API rating listed on the bottle.
It's funny, but usually the cheapest "house brand" oils are still the SL type, probably because the oil companies had alot of it produced, and now the rating calls for a different additive package, so they probably sold all the SL rated oil off to the places like Auto Zone for their "house brand" oil.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 12:34:47 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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ace.cafe

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Re: Motor break in oil/, Electrical load?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2008, 12:32:22 PM »
Regarding your question about adding lights, it may be possible to put some added lighting on it, but the alternator typically isn't providing alot more power than the standard lighting already uses, so I don't know how much wattage could be put on before you get into trouble with battery drain.

I'd recommend just getting the H4 7" headlight conversion. That seems to provide some pretty good light.
And don't overdrive the headlight, by going too fast for what you can see.
Arrive alive!
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 12:39:13 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Joe28

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Re: Motor break in oil/, Electrical load?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2008, 03:45:03 PM »
Tanks! ;D
I figured the Alt output was jjjjjuuuusssttt above what it needed, (my '04 bullet amp gauge was always flying all over the place, discharge at idle, charge as I took off, I was always afraid I drain the battery on the way to work). I was hoping they upped the output on the new engines.
I was looking at the 7" light to add on, but lets first get the bike home and see what I have to work with.
I used to add this stuff B.G. oil treatment to all my cars. It's great stuff, add it to engine oil and it helps on dry starts. I may see if I can find any of that @ Pa.
Joe ;)
So many bikes, so few $$ ;D

ace.cafe

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Re: Motor break in oil/, Electrical load?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2008, 04:22:01 PM »

I used to add this stuff B.G. oil treatment to all my cars. It's great stuff, add it to engine oil and it helps on dry starts. I may see if I can find any of that @ Pa.
Joe ;)
So many bikes, so few $$ ;D

Does BG oil treatment have 1200-1400ppm of ZDDP and phosphorous in it?

Also, many oil treatments have moly in them, which isn't really  the best thing to put into an engine that's breaking in. And don't use any synthetics for breaking it in, either. Maybe later it would be okay after 1500-2000 miles to use a synthetic oil. But not right away.

I'd recommend using a pre-SM series API oil, which will be cheaper than an "oil treatment", and will do the job better than an "oil treatment". Just remember, if it says "SM" anywhere on the bottle, it's not what you want. The latest rating should be SL. After they  switched to SM, they reduced the ZDDP and phosphorous in the oil that our older solid lifter engines need for break in.

It's easy to find a 30w or 40w oil that's rated SL by the API. And it's cheap. And you might be easily able to find a SL  20w-50 multi too. It's not that hard to find yet. The manual recommends straight 50w, so don't worry too much about the oil being too thick, as long as it's not winter out.
You'll only run the engine very mild during the first few hundred miles anyway, and you should be changing your oil after 50 miles, and then agains after 250 miles. This gets rid of the grit that might already be in there from assembly, or any metallic particles which might be wearing off and dropping into the oil as you break in.
The filter is marginal for filtering, so get the oil out of the engine early, and replace with fresh often during break in.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 04:24:25 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
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Joe28

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Re: Motor break in oil/, Electrical load?
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2008, 03:33:26 PM »
I dunno, it's been quite a few years ago that I used their products, as a mechanic for Chrysler.
I know I used it in new engines we rebuilt, as it's supposed to, "soak" into the babbitt material and sweat out as needed.
The demo the rep used was cool.
 They had a small block Chevy engine on a stand, fire it up checked oil PSI. Took the pan off.
Refried it up and ran it like 15 minutes.
Reinstalled the pan, OUR oil, re fired and looked at the oil PSI, was the same! ???
I had a VW motor that leaked oil, I used nothing but old drain oil, and B.G.
As least twice a week, it'd run dry on the way to work, (you know shoe maker's kids running @ with no shoes, I was a mechanic, why would I fix my own bus?).
That motor ran 2 years like that, tore it down and was still , so it's cool stuff.
I'll check and see if they have a web site.
Joe
So many bikes, so few $$ ;)

ace.cafe

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Re: Motor break in oil/, Electrical load?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2008, 03:50:32 PM »
Ok, well whatever.
I'm just trying to recommend a proper oil to use for break in, not trying to sell some magic product additive.
The purpose of "breaking in" is to "break in".
Not "prevent from breaking in".

So, all I'm recommending is to use an oil that will allow proper break in, but not have properties which are prone to wear the cams and solid lifters rapidly, since the oil formulations changed last year.The severe reduction of the ZDDP and phosphorous in the new API SM oil rating has been shown to have deleterious effects on solid lifters and cams during break in. Most modern vehicles are not affected by this, but classic vehicles are. The change was to help extend the life of catalytic converters in modern vehicles.

Once it's broken in, I'm sure that this magic BG will make the engine last forever. If this BG is that slippery as you say, it is going to interfere with the mating of the parts that we're trying to accomplish with break in, so it would be counterproductive to use during that phase. Not to mention the likelihood that with the frequent oil changes required during break in, you'll be dumping expensive oil additives out  quickly, when you could be just using the correct oil and get the job done more effectively and cheaper.
My recommendation is to break the engine in first, and then use the BG if you want to put that in.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2008, 04:11:12 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
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PhilJ

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Re: Motor break in oil/, Electrical load?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2008, 10:43:26 PM »
A hearty second on Ace's advice.

Joe28

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Re: Motor break in oil/, Electrical load?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2008, 05:11:03 PM »
AH! I see said the blind man to his wife with the wooden leg- Peg! ;)
See, this is why I ask questions. ???
So, I WANT the new engine to wear , (and loosen up) a bit before I install friction fighters. ::)
Tanks! :)
Joe
So many bikes, so few $$

sirwrksalot

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Re: Motor break in oil/, Electrical load?
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2008, 02:40:21 AM »
Since you mention the alternator working load I realize it changes the subject somewhat but if I change the rear light to an LED one like the Tomestone and place LED bulbs in the turn signals with the H4 7" headlight would this work to keep the alt from over working???
"There are two ways of meeting difficulties. You alter the difficulty or you alter yourself to meet them."

ace.cafe

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Re: Motor break in oil/, Electrical load?
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2008, 01:31:12 PM »
Since you mention the alternator working load I realize it changes the subject somewhat but if I change the rear light to an LED one like the Tomestone and place LED bulbs in the turn signals with the H4 7" headlight would this work to keep the alt from over working???

The LED taillight would help ease the load on the alternator, but the turn signals are only on so briefly that they wouldn't have much effect.
I think a normal taillight bulb is around 11 watts, and the LED taillight would only be a fraction of that, maybe around  1 or 2 watts.
Since the taillight runs all the time when the bike is on, it would have an effect on reducing the normal alternator load.
It would give you an extra ~10 watts to provide to a higher power headlight or other running lights, without making any additional load on the alternator than normal, if you had the LED taillight..
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/AcePerformanceBullets/info