Bullet UCE INTERMOT unveiling Comments Thread!

[doomed1]

well it's here, follow the LINK

my personal comments
Pros:

• beautiful
• classy
• just a great looking bike
• engine looks like an AVL or ironbarrel
• disk breaks!

Con:

• WHERE'S THE KICKSTART!?!?!

THANKS SO MUCH TO KEVIN AND COMPANY FOR THEIR AWESOME COVERAGE OF THE EVENT!

[Bath Bullet]

WOW!!!!!
Far better than I had hoped!
Not too far removed from its real daddy!
Shame about the kickstart, I hope its leccy start is reliable as a leggy start!

[PhilJ]

At shows sometimes things are removed from bikes in order to preserve that part for future use. 

[t120rbullet]

I like!
Minus the disk brake.
Something about the red polka dots on that green one does  it for me.

[alwscout]

Gorgeous!!! I've gotta have one!

Adam

[doomed1]

At shows sometimes things are removed from bikes in order to preserve that part for future use. 

God, i hope you're right. i really want that kick of an experience!

[Bath Bullet]

At shows sometimes things are removed from bikes in order to preserve that part for future use. 

God, i hope you're right. i really want that kick of an experience!

Dragging the picture up, I cant see any provision for a kickstart.
I do spy an oil level window, and drum brake on the rear.
Still got that horrible sensor sticking out to the left on the header pipe unfortunately too, but they did well to make the silencer small enough even with the cat!
I wonder if it would fit the Classic Bullet?
As its a Euopean show I an suprised to see all the bikes have single seats, would have expected to see at least one dual, or aint we getting it this time?
Nice bikes though, I raise my glass to the new model, and the next 55 years!
The King is dead, long live the King!!
Almost forgot my manners, thank you Kevin.

[Puddlejumper]

I like it!
Does anyone know yet how much they will be?

BTW the black one has a pillion pad on it.

BeSafe
PJ

[doomed1]

Dragging the picture up, I cant see any provision for a kickstart.
I do spy an oil level window, and drum brake on the rear.
Still got that horrible sensor sticking out to the left on the header pipe unfortunately too, but they did well to make the silencer small enough even with the cat!
I wonder if it would fit the Classic Bullet?
As its a Euopean show I an suprised to see all the bikes have single seats, would have expected to see at least one dual, or aint we getting it this time?
Nice bikes though, I raise my glass to the new model, and the next 55 years!
The King is dead, long live the King!!
Almost forgot my manners, thank you Kevin.

oh, it's there, it just looks like it's been blocked by the case just around where the kick is in the UCE Electra. this is for one of three reasons: they've yet to finalize a kick style, two, they didn't want the thing breaking from too many people trying to kickstart the bikes (these are just showbikes), or three, it's not going to be on the final bike (but could be changed). i'm leaning towards option two. i mean, these are show bikes. the kickstart is a feature that was already in the UCE design and is popular among most customers, so i see no reason for it to be left out. i would like to hear the final word from Kevin though.

about the silencer, it's nice, but i'd rather it to be straight personally. i'd like some room for saddlebags, but the seat is REALLY nice. that's about exactly what i wanted.

[luoma]

Where is it?

[luoma]

OK, found it. Cool. Looks about like I'd hoped it would.

[prof_stack]

Initial reaction is positive. 
- Front fender looks fat.  I like it.
- Solo seat is classic, but I would want a rack behind it.
- Muffler tip looks very vintage, nice.
- Headlight visor looks good.
- No kickstart?  Not a deal breaker.  Maybe RE wants to project a modern image.
- Nice shiny motor.
- What is that oval thing under the seat?  Air filter cover?

If the MSRP is under $6k I think it will sell just fine.

[luoma]

The clean, bare rear fender is a plus. Should have done that with the Electra. Overall, good lookig bike. Also like the fact that they are using some classic colors. This thing it really going to tuen some heads. I think it may be my next bike. I was thinking of getting a Bonnie as a second bike, but between the Bonnie and the new RE, I don't think there is even a choice. This bike looks so much better.

[igrover]

I like the bike but am concerned about the price.  With the dollar falling in value worldwide I think it will be extremely unlikely to find a retail price below $6,000.  And that is a price breaker for me.

[deejay]

Kevin was right, for a new bike, I like the looks of it. The engine still looks a little bit out of place to me, but not nearly as bad as I thought t would look. Overall I think it is a good option for someone who wants a new retro bike. That will never be me, been there, done that with the new Bonneville... but I believe this new RE will be successful and I commend the designers for keeping the look of a 1950s bike.

[RAKe]

I'm a new member, and this is my first (corrected) post.  I've been waiting for this unveiling, and now I will read all I can about the new RE until I'm ready to buy.  I now own a '07 Harley-Davidson Street Bob, but I will sell it soon and put a deposit on one of these new Bullets when they reach the States--I hope they continue the Deluxe with the gas tank trimmed in chrome.    I've also been reading the other posts, and I'm impressed with such brand loyalty--as strong as Harley-Davidson, but a more intelligent crowd. HaHa 

My immediate question is, how fat of a front tire could I put on the front rim (is it 2.5")?  The wider front fender on the 2009s suggests wider forks, which would allow a wider tire.  I also might be able to respoke with a rim that matches the one on the rear (depending on the number of spokes in each wheel).  I want a wide front tire, with a matching size tire on the rear.  Any suggestions?

[Bath Bullet]

I like the bike but am concerned about the price.  With the dollar falling in value worldwide I think it will be extremely unlikely to find a retail price below $6,000.  And that is a price breaker for me.

Surely with your $ falling, all imports mayl be dearer, but the Indian will still be as competetive.
My main concearn would be the quality, the Classics could get away with bad chrome, bits falling off, and the other usual problems because they were cheap and it gave a reasonable window to spend a few Ł to bring it upto scratch but still be cheaper than the rice rockets, but if the new one is priced too close to a higher priced machine with inbuilt reliability, you are going to be a bit peaved if you need to start spendiningt on a new bike!

[Eamon]

That's one sharp looking bike!  Nothing to not like as far as I'm concerned.  I probably would, however, prefer a straight exhaust in order to give saddlebags more clearance.

Eamon

[LJRead]

Yes, the one in black with large red polka dots is especially nice.

 All in all, I like current Classic AVL models better because they retain the original look when the swing arm first came out.  Trying to mate the swing arm with the G series type looks is a little off setting.  I guess it is because I grew up with the British bikes of the later fifties.  It is a little too retro for my tastes, but nice for someone who wants that look.

I think I would give buyers a choice of the new bike as pictured and maybe a current Classic with the new engine, plus a military as they seem popular.  The military could be in the new retro look as that would give a WWII ambiance to it.

[RAKe]

"Yes, the one in black with large red polka dots is especially nice".

You guys must reexamine your analyses--maybe it's a European thing.  Like most hungry American males, I prefer the sweetheart with white spots on black, almost as much as the bike displayed in the same photo!!  Clean and sharp-looking examples in both cases!!

[Puddlejumper]

How much? And when will they be at the dealers?

I like 'em!

BeSafe
PJ

[MOKAN-BULLET]

Kevin, why is the girl in focus in the first pic and not the bike you must have been distracted.

The bike looks great !

I got to ride the mock up at the rally on the river sounds like an Enfield should, rides and shift smooth. very torquey

MO-KAN

[Bath Bullet]

Reading the Watsonian sales pitch, the Electra will still be avaliable in the U.K. in 2009 but with the new UCE engine, the way I read it is that the new model on show will be another model all together.
until all the details are avaliable, dates, models, prices etc, everything still seems to be speculation, and as clear as ditch water.
Will they be converting models to the Clubman, Woodsman etc, its not really just about one new model in a few new colours.
Also, how long will we still be able to get parts for the Classics and other discontinued models, for years ahead I imagine, and hope!

[Land Surveyor]

Loved the pictures, thanks.  Also loved the site.
So glad they adhered as closely to classic lines as possible.  A retro design with an authentic heritage, with modern tweaks here and there to enhance reliability.  That combination has worked for Harley and should work for RE as well.  I hope they kept the use of plastic down to a minimum, especially the fenders and headlight nacelle.  I've looked at unit engined RE's and this one looks pretty close so I think we can pretty much avoid the term "faux retro" here.
Wonder how much of the existing accessories catalog will fit or will new luggage racks, panniers, etc. have to be produced.
6k is a reasonable price range.  We can't expect to do this much redesign without it being reflected in the price.  If the current economic squeeze don't kill my job, I might be able to swing keeping my old Honda PC and buy the RE outright.  My other preferred options were running 7k+ anyway.

[Land Surveyor]

Another question: What's the primary drive? Chain? Gears?

[stw]

Yes, the one in black with large red polka dots is especially nice.

 All in all, I like current Classic AVL models better because they retain the original look when the swing arm first came out.  Trying to mate the swing arm with the G series type looks is a little off setting.   I guess it is because I grew up with the British bikes of the later fifties.  It is a little too retro for my tastes, but nice for someone who wants that look.

I think I would give buyers a choice of the new bike as pictured and maybe a current Classic with the new engine, plus a military as they seem popular.  The military could be in the new retro look as that would give a WWII ambiance to it.

Try to picture how the classic AVL models look like the early swingarm models, while the new UCE looks like the G series, if you don't mind a newbie question.  Was the G series a hardtail?  What are the visual cues that would help me recognize the how the classic looks like the early swingarm models rather than the G series?

By the way, the bike looks surprisingly good and true to what RE riders look for...but does anyone else notice the 18" wheels really do look smaller? I wouldn't have thought 1" smaller would be that noticeable but it is.  Especially the front.

[LJRead]

The photo shows a G-series, I believe.  They were a hard tail.  The new bike looks good and most will be more than satisfied with it.  I guess I had expected something a little more progressive while still recognizable as an Enfield.  I too was surprised at what one inch on the wheel could do.

This isn't like the car style changes of an earlier era where the old ones soon got to looking outmoded. I think each model or series of Enfield has its place and would be happy to own any one of them.  If I could see one of the new models in person, I think that would make a difference, as they probably look so much better that way than in photos.

[LJRead]

Here is a picture of the Vincent Black shadow and, just in looking at it, it appears that it has a sort of soft tail with the shocks more unobtrusive.

[LJRead]

And here is a mock-up or artist rendition that was circulated before the new UCE came out.  To me, the cleaness of its lines is very impressive and nice.

[stw]

The photo shows a G-series, I believe. 

Thanks. Good to see the differences.

[icarus]

I like the new bike except for the silencer (I prefer the straight one) and the ugly tail light.

[Hoosier Daddy]

The RE site now has alot of info and pictures of the new Bullet.  The short, upswept silencer is an "off road only" option.  Maybe I've had my '01 long enough. Onward and upward.

[Brian]

For those asking about the kickstart, I noticed that at www.bulletclassic.com, under "Specifications", under "Engine", they list "Starting: Electric" with no mention of a kickstart. And the pictures on that website also do not include a kickstart.

Maybe if it was in the original UCE design, they might sell a kickstart as an option? The ks was one of the really unique things that was making me look forward to this bike, it'd be a pity for it to have been dropped enirely 

[Land Surveyor]

The pictures show a "blank" spot where the kick ought to come out. Reminds me of the Suzuki I bought in the late 80s. similar blank spot. That model never had a kickstarter.  Think of it as vestigial.  Oh, well,  it can always be bump-started.

[LJRead]

If they sell 50,000 units of the new UCE, and they save even just $10/unit by not including the kick start lever, they effectively make $500,000  more in profit - that is- if that many people are willing to buy the bike without kick start (I for one wouldn' be).

Is that called "false economy"?

[Brian]

True, one can always bump start in a pinch I suppose... thumbing a button or rolling it off really lacks the "cool" of kicking it over, though.

And regarding your (completely hypothetical  ) false economy, if they're making $5k on each bike, it'll only take 100 people worldwide to decide they don't want it for lack of kickstart to negate their gains.

[doomed1]

For those asking about the kickstart, I noticed that at www.bulletclassic.com, under "Specifications", under "Engine", they list "Starting: Electric" with no mention of a kickstart. And the pictures on that website also do not include a kickstart.

Maybe if it was in the original UCE design, they might sell a kickstart as an option? The ks was one of the really unique things that was making me look forward to this bike, it'd be a pity for it to have been dropped enirely 

yeah, i noticed that too. i do hope they provide an option for the US market, i mean, it's already in the design of the engine, it's just a matter of drilling a hole and putting on the lever. hopefully there will at least be a kick starter kit not long after it gets a domestic release. i hope Kevin could make a mention about such an option and if he asked about it at the dealer meeting...

[coinzy]

Also i think it'll be gloves off now for the reviewers now,instead of the past soft type reviews from testers who had a close affinity to this type of bike and friendships with dealers.I think it will be compared to other bikes already marked,so first thing it needs is a trip meter,
the coinz

[TBDN]

I hope they have a bike at the Rosemont show in feb. I shall look forward to checking it out there. Just some comments:

1. I like the bike as it is - the single seat is enough for a nostalgic bike putting out 28 BHp and I would love to ride mine by myself during the summer

2. The electric start is also perfectly fine. If they offer a kick start, that is OK. Frankly, I don't care if they don't, but Rpoyal Enfield will have to think about the majority here who seem to want kick starters

3. I like the disk brake as well. No, it does not look traditional, but it is certainly a safer option while riding. This is a new bike and not an antique - an improvement should not be condemned

And now, a question for Enfield - when the hay are you going to start selling it?

[Brian]

And now, a question for Enfield - when the hay are you going to start selling it?

Not only when, but how much $$ 

[PhilJ]

Saturday my best friend and also my dealer came down with a "the last 'Iron' for us to deliver to an old vet about 100 miles west, on Sunday.

After delivering and also picking up a couple of BSA , Bultaco, DOTs, Cottons etc. and getting back to the house we were looking at the new UCEs. My friend noted that the engine case appeared to be powder coated and the muffler was on the same side of the bike as the chain, which gave the appearance of being off balanced, and no provision for a dual seat.

He made a good argument that he thought that the bikes at Intermot were probably not a final design. Just the engine being powder coated may indicate that, as any chipping or otherwise damage to the finnish would make the bike appear older or just plain crappy looking. Not a good design if that is the case. But made for a very nice show bike.

Since the emphasis on the web was a trip into the past, one would think that a kick start would probably not be omitted.

In any case, the bikes coming into the US will probably be different.

So the wait continues for the "real" UCE Classic.

[rotorwrench]

The right side of the motor looks very much like the unit 350 Bullet made from 1963 thru 66 as well as the Crusader & Continental GT 250s of the day. The two big exceptions are the 1955 style frame is still the same, and the left side case is completely different.

The unit 350s had a kick start set up on the right side on the rear center area of the case. I just hope the transmission is built better that the old unit 350s. They had some reliability problems back then. Also they never produced a 500 Bullet in unit construction due to the transmission problems with the smaller models. It couldn't take the extra power.

[PhilJ]

In those 45 years there have been so many improvements in metallurgy and machining that that possibility seems remote.

[Bath Bullet]

In those 45 years there have been so many improvements in metallurgy and machining that that possibility seems remote.

I hope you are right on that, I think on reflection I would wait atleast a year before buying one, after all its totally new & different from anything else to come out of the Indian factory
I think on that note its about time the warranty was brought more into line with other manufactures too, 1 year or less than 7500mls might just about have been acceptable on an iron classic, but on a 'modern' bike with higher initial costs, higher parts & labour if things do go wrong, it needs to be better, and transfereable to a second owner.
To me better warranties show more faith in the product from the manufactures too.

[PhilJ]

SB,

I don't think it's that much different. Take the AVL for example, it's been in production for a few years. Mine has given zero problems and I didn't break it in according to the book as the book showed the same break in as for an "Iron". They are not the same. Different manufacturing process. CNC machining means better tolerances that the iron has to be coaxed into. Plus, no iron barrel. While I say I didn't follow the books break in doesn't mean I flogged it either. I took is easy enough. Rode it by the seat of my pants and did it in a shorter interval.

Phil

[luoma]

I didn't break my AVL in according to the book either. I had read on a British site that dealers tell customers to keep it under 60 for the first 500 miles. I did a bit less than that, but I took my cues from the engine.

[RAKe]

ENGINE BREAK-IN GUIDELINES (from an old fart that has been building engines for decades).

Regarding engine break-in, there are some specific rules to follow regardless if you are riding a cast-iron or aluminum (alloy) engine.  Reduced RPM and the avoidance of cruising RPMs are critical, regardless of speed.  Breaking in an engine by around-town driving is the best option, with its varied engine speeds and stop-& go situations.  Although recent engine designs are less susceptible to improper break-in it definitely remains advantageous to keep RPMs below 3000 for the first 5000 miles. 

Another important factor are oil changes.  Because engines come from whatever factory with whatever oil in it, it is best to change the oil after 1000 miles to whatever grade and brand an owner determines is "best".  From that point forward, it is best to change carbon-based oils (made from dead dinosaurs) every 3000 miles, while synthetic oils will lubricate an engine effectively for 5000 miles.  Quality is paramount!!  Many brands are available, but the continuous winner in Consumer Reports reviews is Valvoline.  Because I am a sucker for scientific proof, I run synthetic Valvoline in all my vehicles other than my Harley-Davidson (I run their synthetic oil while the bike is under warranty), and the extra cost of running synthetic oils is definitely worth the expense.

Lastly, let me mention that old engine designs require much more attention to engine break-in.  Iron block Royal  Enfield classics for instance, are much more susceptible to engine particularities (rarely to an owner's advantage), while also requiring a higher level of maintenance than the newer alloy counterparts.. 

[REpozer]

I broke mine in by the RE book, I rode on the side of the road for @ 32 mph or less for 300 miles like a moped. If I could see cars stacking behind me I would pull off.
The shifting got better ,I rarely have a missed shift anymore, just like others have reported.

[PhilJ]

You say cars stacking up behind you? I would have thought dog sleds.