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Author Topic: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?  (Read 6172 times)

prof_stack

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MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« on: October 15, 2008, 02:31:15 AM »
With some of the comments made about how the construction of the UCE was significantly higher than that of the iron or AVL motor, what do you think all that will do to the Bullet Classic MSRP?

Bath Bullet

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2008, 08:43:56 AM »
Nothing, the price has been set, and if anything they could go higher as they become more unobtainable.
I heard a wisper that the UCE bullet is expected to be 3995 when it finally apears for sale in the U.K., thats a 1000 up on the old Iron Bullet, and about 300 up on the Electra X.
There were only about 20 new 500 Classics avaliable from the importers a few weeks ago, possibly all but gone now, but quite a few 350's and watching eBay prices the 500's seem to be holding up well on S/H sales, even gaining a bit, surprisingly as this is probably the worst time of year to try to sell second hand bikes of any description.
Best regards
Terry
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Also 2008 TRIUMPH BONNEVILLE 865 EFI

ace.cafe

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2008, 01:45:56 PM »
I voted $6500-$7000.

I actually think it will be very close to $7k, something like $6995, or something like that.

Probably wind up around $7500 "out the door" with tax, title and tag.

That's my guess.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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The Garbone

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2008, 03:20:35 PM »
Well,  you can buy a baseline BMW for $7100.

http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/bikes/bike.jsp?b=f650gs

 I hope the folks at RE decide to go for a lower price point and keep it reasonable.   If my RE cost more than $5500 I would not have bought it.  Unless the UCE performs as well as a modern bike (this includes highways) I can not really see justification for paying the equivalent price .   Also, the dollar has rebounded and that should help keep the price down.

Gary
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01 HD 1200 Custom
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* all actions described in this post are fictional *

David R

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2008, 05:33:55 PM »
I too, hope that they will keep the price down, but I'm pretty excited about the bike. I hope that we get to see them here soon!

REpozer

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2008, 06:42:54 PM »
I wonder if the Indian market will get a UCE Classic 350. If so that might help keep over all cost down .
 My bet is$ 6399.99 plus tax. But I hope its lower.
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cyrusb

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2008, 11:25:01 PM »
I say less than 6k. Why would it cost more? The redesigned engine is obviously cheaper to build, out of conciderably less metal.  ( that's not me, I read that in their own press release ) That savings alone should offset the new expense of fuel injection. I also have to imagine that there are savings found elsewere, Like the disc brake, a rare occurrence when cheeper and better actually is. But most of the time just cheeper is what the managment  loves.

PhilJ

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2008, 11:38:59 AM »
You may be right cyrusb, I certainly hope so. But It's not often that a company will develop a newer anything and not charge more.

cyrusb

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2008, 03:27:35 PM »
O.K I'll give them 6500, but really, why would anyone buy that bike at that price. It has no redeeming qualities, just a 70's  clone with uncertain longevity, factory support(how far away is your dealer?) and quality. The classics gave you a reason to go out on that limb, the UCE don't.  You can get some really nice stuff for $6500. Time will tell.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 03:29:23 PM by cyrusb »

Jon

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2008, 11:19:29 PM »
Short and simple answer is the bike will be worth what people are prepared to
pay for it.If you've decided not to like it you won't buy it at any price if you like it
then you'll stretch a bit.

RAKe

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2008, 10:59:39 AM »
I am an American who is now riding my last Harley-Davidson, as "The Company" has priced me out of the market.  Although I am waiting for the new UCE to come to the states, I have for years been considering a Triumph Bonneville, which is an extremely well-engineered product and is priced at nearby D&D Cycle at $6500-$7000.  How does Royal Enfield expect the new UCE to compete effectively in the same price range as such stiff competition?  Even at $6000, the added $500 would buy me another cylinder and proven record of performance and reliability.

Later I write to say that I have just learned that the cheapest Triumph Bonneville (Black) is $7299 MSRP, and the Triumph America (my choice) is $7999.  That does make an RE a more reasonable purchase.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2008, 02:22:31 AM by RAKe »
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ace.cafe

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2008, 01:28:18 PM »
I am an American who is now riding my last Harley-Davidson, as "The Company" has priced me out of the market.  Although I am waiting for the new UCE to come to the states, I have for years been considering a Triumph Bonneville, which is an extremely well-engineered product and is priced at nearby D&D Cycle at $6500-$7000.  How does Royal Enfield expect the new UCE to compete effectively in the same price range as such stiff competition?  Even at $6000, the added $500 would buy me another cylinder and proven record of performance and reliability.


This raises an excellent question, and it gives me a chance to say some good things about the new Bullet. I've been sort of tough on the new Bullet, but I think there are some good things about it too.

There's no doubt that the inevitable comparisons and competitions will be made with the UCE Bullet vs the Bonneville vs the Sportster 883 Hugger. They are going to be in similar price ranges.
Initially, the thought might be exactly as described above by Rake, where you could get "another cylinder" and "performance and reliability".

Ok, let's look at these things.
Another cylinder. Is that good or bad?
Well, we can start with the claim by RE that the UCE will do 70mph on the highway without trouble. If that is true, then it fulfills all the necessary things that the bike must do, and takes care of the highway concerns which have always been a concern to older Bullet owners. So, the highway riding is claimed to be solved.
Next, there's complexity in repair and maintenance. Twice as much with a twin. Plus the extra weight, which comes in at around 80 more pounds for the Bonnie and even more for the Sportster.
Then, there's fuel economy. The Bonnie and the Sportster 883 are both around the same displacement, nearly 900cc engines. This is going to definitely use more fuel than a 500cc single. In times of uncertain fuel prices, a more economical bike that can perform the necessary duties could be an advantage.
So, for the money spent, you could say you got a bike that does everything that the other bikes can legally do, and gets better gas mileage, is more nimble and easy to handle,lless complexity, and looks better(maybe).

For performance, the 27hp Bullet will be close enough to the Bonnie or the 883 Sporty, that it isn't going to be an issue for normal street riding. For racing, it would be a different story, but most don't by the RE to race it. So, for normal riding purposes, and even cruising with other bikers, it will be able to keep up fine. Heck, my 22hp old Bullet can keep up with Harleys just fine, as long as we're not on the Interstate.
For handling, it will  be more nimble and possibly better handling, or at least in the similar ballpark, and good enough to compete.
For brakes, it now has the disc front brake, and with the lightweight bike it should brake well enough to not be a concern for buyers.

As for reliability, we aren't sure about that yet. If the E-start works flawlessly, and the bike is really as improved as they want us to believe, then we should see modern bike reliability, except for maybe some vibration issues with bolts loosening up, or something like that.

So, a person could describe the UCE as a bike that has the necessary capabilities to provide all the normal road work that is within legal boundaries just fine, is lighter and more nimble, gets better gas mileage, and has a unique look that some/many may prefer.
All for a similar price as the others.

It all depends on how you look at it.
Not everyone considers bigger to be better, especially with gas prices being as volatile as they are today.
But, there is also no doubt that some will prefer the bigger bikes in a similar price category, so the competition will be there, and the makers are more famous than the RE is. The RE will be a niche market for those who want something a little more different
« Last Edit: October 17, 2008, 01:43:33 PM by ace.cafe »
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cyrusb

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2008, 01:30:25 PM »
Whatever they ask for it in the states, you can believe it will be half that in India, just like the Bullets. The riders in India can't believe how much we pay for them.

baird4444

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2008, 02:16:40 PM »
I pretty much agree with most of what Ace  said.
Another benefit might be that our dealers will actually take our "old" Bullets on trade - giving us a better than e-bay price;  raising the market value of our old ones and creating a used market for themselves...
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luoma

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2008, 02:50:27 PM »
Hey RAKe, I bought my RE at D&D. I was looking at the basic Bonnie before buying the RE, but the more I thought about it, the more I leaned toward the RE. I often think about what it would have been like if I had bought the Bonnie. I do not believe I would have liked it as much. Much more expensive to assessorize, not as comfortable to sit on, only about 40 mpg (road test reports as little as 35). When I'm not riding the RE, I'm thinking about it. Never had that happen with any other bike before. After nearly 10,000 miles in the last year and a half, I'm still in love with the RE. The thought of spending my road time on a modern, smooth, over-engineered bike does not appeal to me. We ride for the viceral feel of motorcycling. The RE provides that at all speeds, and in all riding situations, never has a problem keeping up with other bikes, and garners a lot of attention where ever you go. Try to find that with any other machine.

cyrusb

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2008, 04:33:10 PM »
I think the UCE bullet, is the answer to the question that nobody asked.

birdmove

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2008, 04:43:09 PM »
   HD has dropped the XL883.They dropped the XL883R a while back,If you want a new 883 you have to get either the Custom or the Low now.

    jon
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prof_stack

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2008, 06:29:59 PM »
I think the UCE bullet, is the answer to the question that nobody asked.
Questions were asked, like:
  • Can you make the Bullet to conform to Euro 3?  i.e. fuel injection
  • Can you make the Bullet have fewer problems?  ... we'll see ...
  • Can you make the Bullet be able to sustain 70mph runs?  ... we'll see ...
  • Can you make the Bullet in a really classic looking style?  Yes

taildraggin

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2008, 05:26:02 PM »
People buy Enfields cause they are cheap and different.

Harley is asking $6700 for an 883 sportster on their website.  I don't think that leaves much room in the market - at that level - for an Enfield with mild functional improvement over the one it replaces.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2008, 05:30:22 PM by taildraggin »
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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2008, 07:00:52 PM »
I agree 100% with that, taildraggin.

The danger is that RE will forget who their core buyer is/was and look, green-eyed, at the main stream. Honda/Harley style pricing could then easily antagonize the loyal RE person, and at the same time the appeal of the new bikes could be insufficient to win over buyers of those more orthodox machines.

And, there is no going back when you have blurred a brand's identity. For example, Nikon have sold a boatload of cheap consumer compact digital cameras (and hit the mainstream) but something intangible was lost along the way.

 :(
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RAKe

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2008, 07:01:36 PM »
I have lost two pending posts last night and this morning, so now that I am done cursing, I will change my tactics and update my post a piece at a time.  Please excuse this large post, but I will cover a number of important topics.

First, Chasfield, Hondas and Harleys represent significantly different market segments.  Honda offers an extremely well-engineered, but docile product that is quickly duplicated by many other manufacturers, effectively melding its bikes into mediocrity. Harley-Davidson, on the other hand, has strived for decades now to market it's bikes in a manner to appeal to the individuality of its customers, while also maintaining a "rogue" appeal.  Excellent tactic, but expensive (I speak from experience).

With that said, I appreciate the responses to my earlier post on the comparative value of Royal Enfields.

Ace, you own a sharp RE (but I'm too old for the low bars, though).  You also present a strong argument.  Regarding cost, I was wrong in my earlier claims.  I just surfed the D&D Cycle website and learned that the cheapest Bonneville (Black) is $7299, while the America (my choice) is $7999.  That makes an RE more of a value, pricewise.  With respect to performance, I am confident that a UCE will meet those requirements.  I have no intention of riding cross-country (among the strengths of my big Harley-Davidson).  My riding is mostly around town, with some day-trips mixed in.  My primary concern with an RE is overheating if I were to burn a tank of gas (or more) in one trip on a hot summer day (once a limitation of HD Sportsters).  Also, the front disc brake is a notable upgrade, as I have read (in one report) of the inadequacy of RE drum brakes.

Regarding economy, I will use Luoma's research into the gas mileage of a Bonneville as a basis for further explanation.  My Harley-Davidson, with a 96 cubic-inch V-twin delivers only 40-45mpg, and apparently, a Triumph is not signficantly better, if not worse--another strong point for RE.  You just cannot beat 70 mpg.

But the most important factor to me, as to all of us, is the personality, or the sound and feel  of the bike.  Yesterday I rode across southern Alabama with a girlfriend (she bought my Sportster).  When we ride together she rides in the left half of the lane, and I ride in the right, often just behind her so I can absorb the staccato rumble of her exhaust (she serves me well).  It is a similar sound and feeling that I hope to expect from a Royal Enfield.  If I could acquire that, I would willingly sacrifice the over-abundance of torque provided by a Harley-Davidson, or the smoothness and speed (not particularly attractive characteristics to me) associated with a Triumph America.  I normally think that anything over 50mph is only fighting the wind, although as I ride behind a windshield, my Harley-Davidson lopes along perfectly in overdrive at 60mph.

Mike, I recently visited D&D Cycle shopping for a new RE bike.  In order to speed the transaction, I offered the multiple salesmen on the scene the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to accept my 2007 HD Street Bob in trade, but they only laughed.  Why is that?

Luoma,  I understand your skepticism of "smooth, over-engineered" motorcycles, which is one of the reasons I now ride the beast I do.  But I would welcome the opportunity to step down to a smaller, more nimble, and less expensive ride that would offer me a similar personality at less cost.  In fact, if we can set it up, I would like to get together so we can ride together and I can inspect your ride (note above analysis technique).  If we can set something up somewhere in Pensacola, just let me know at [email protected].  Cheers.   
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008, 03:46:51 AM by RAKe »
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Leonard

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2008, 09:40:24 PM »
Also, the front disc brake is a notable upgrade, as I have read of the inadequacy of RE drum brakes.

If anyone has an inadequate DLS front brake it is because it isn't adjusted properly.
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Chasfield

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2008, 04:23:20 PM »
That's right.  My DLS front brake was very poor until I got the dormant shoe to join in the party by adjusting the linkage rod.

Back on price: in the UK the now withdrawn 350 iron engined Classic was being sold for 2450 GBP up until the end (a bargain). Whereas, a fully loaded lean-burn cafe racer style model would be about twice that. That is a big hike for a similar amount of metal and makes you look long and hard at other brands.

It is difficult to equate US and UK prices because we often pay pound for dollar whatever the official crazy exchange rate is supposed to be, but the danger is that RE will gravitate towards charging the fancy price for the bread-and-butter UCE product and annoy a lot of people. Not sure what that might come to in US dollars.
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Jon

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2008, 08:11:28 PM »
An answer to taildraging. If Harley can sell the Sportster at $6700 which is also a bike
that has only recieved the afore mentioned mild functional improvements since
1957 why can't Enfield do the same with the Bullet? Or do you believe that the
Sportster is a better motorcycle?
Out of interest was that MSRP for the Sportster or a discounted price? I have always
thought that the Sportster was the only modern Harley that appealed but here in
California they always seemed a bit pricey.
 I will be disappointed if the UCE is out of my price range when it appears but that
won't stop me waiting a bit until I can afford one and on balance I prefer it to
either the Sportster or the AVL.In many respects I prefer the classic iron barrel
Bullet but I have previously owned one and the use I envisage for my next bike
might require too much maintainance input.

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2008, 08:29:42 PM »
I find it humorous that none of us have CLUE as to how much this is going to cost and yet we are already throwing RE under the bus about how they are going to overprice it and lose touch with reality or whatever.

I remember when folks were saying the new bike wasn't going to look good before we ever saw a picture of it too.

The rumor mill sure runs at full throttle when it comes to new bikes.

Adam
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prof_stack

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2008, 11:39:34 PM »
The Sportster 883Low is priced at $6900 MSRP on the HD USA website.  There is no doubt that it is a better motorcycle than the UCE in some things: 

Better in the # of dealers, parts availability, reliability of engine (although I hope the UCE proves itself rock solid), and resale.

But the RE is lighter, less expensive (I sure hope so), more fuel efficient, and surely has better handling.

They both look classic and timeless.  I had an 883 Sportster once upon a time for 6 years and was glad to sell it to get an Electra-Glide (wonderful machine but also now gone). 

BUT, what I WANT TO SEE is the actual stock Bullet Classic that will be sold in the US.  Assuming what we've been told, the UCE will have a more "normal" exhaust pipe with larger volume for emission and sound level concerns.

Bring it on, let's see it!

cyrusb

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2008, 01:54:00 PM »
Prof Stack, Are those the questions you asked when you fell in love with your bullet? The fact that it had none of those improvements is what made the sale, was it not?

prof_stack

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2008, 06:13:43 PM »
Prof Stack, Are those the questions you asked when you fell in love with your bullet? The fact that it had none of those improvements is what made the sale, was it not?
Actually, I did NOT fall in love with the Electra and also did not buy one, although I was pretty darn close (ask Vince) a couple of times.  I wanted a thumper as I've always been enthralled with them.  The SR500 came and went (good bike but parts became hard to find and a new stator was almost worth the bike's resale value at that time) and the Buell Blast was very rugged and dependable but I was seduced by the sexy Buell XB9S and traded in the Blast. 

The MG Nevada is a great motorcycle and very easy to put a lot of miles on in one sitting (100 miles last Sunday, 61mpg).  For now its perfect for me.  However, I'm still hankering for a single-cyinder machine.  If the UCE pans out to be better in reliability than the AVL or iron then that's what I'll get.  It would probably join rather than replace the Guzzi.

cyrusb

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2008, 08:28:10 PM »
Sorry, my bad, I assumed you owned one(iron classic) now things make sense. Lots of bikes out there allready meet your requirements.

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2008, 06:15:19 PM »
I don't need an interstate bike, but I'd sure like to have a new UCE in the 350cc range.  The fuel mileage would be awesome, methinks, and for the kind of backroad riding I do (I hate interstates and only do 'em when iron-buttin' it) just putzying around enjoying myself I'd much rather have a 350 than a 500.  I hope they'll sell 350s over here in the colonies like they do in India!  8)
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RAKe

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2008, 03:51:32 AM »
For those readers debating between a new RE and a "similarly priced" Harley-Davidson, I have some advice for you.  Regarding the professor's earlier post, he claims that "(t)he Sportster 883Low is priced at $6900 MSRP on the HD USA website".  I want everybody to be aware of Harley-Davidson's pricing tactics.  That Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price is a farce, and does not include a number of costs that are fundamental to the purchase of a new vehicle, most notably what might be termed "dealer markup" (which is $1000 minimum on a Harley-Davidson), together with tax, tag, and title for the state in which you live.  And I can assure you those costs add up.  In  order to make their pricing SEEM more competitive, Harley dealers do not include ANY additional costs as part of the MSRP, and a customer can easily expect to pay $9000 or better for a "$6999" motorcycle.  For those debating between an RE and a Harley, be prepared for those added charges.  I speak from experience--twice!!

And do not forget $75 an hour for labor at a Harley dealership--for my money they should move much faster!!  And for those of us that prefer to do our own maintenance and repair, special tools are also frequently recommended for maintenance on a Harley.  Many of the costs of Harley ownership are hidden, but expensive!!  I desperately need the new UCE to become available in the States.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 04:21:32 AM by RAKe »
196? Triumph 500 (basket case), 1968 BSA 650 (needed work), 1976 Triumph T140V 750 (ran well), 2004 Harley-Davidson XL883C, 2007 Harley-Davidson FXDB

Waiting to order 2012 Royal Enfield Bullet Deluxe

prof_stack

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2008, 05:02:45 AM »
Good post, RAKe.  The HD $6900 price does not include freight/setup in most cases.  That is also true of RE and most other marquees.  But HD has been hurting lately and they are most likely pretty willing to work with interested (but not too interested) buyers.  I had 4 HD/Buell products in my garage for 22 years so I have a little experience with them.

I have heard that the Sportsters are selling well right now, as people who "have" to have a Harley are saving their money and not buying the big twin.  So HD will try to keep the price as high as possible.  But the week between Dec 25 and Dec 31 is often a great time to get a great deal.

I'm still waiting for the photos of the REAL Bullet Classic coming sometime in 2009.  Besides the muffler, I wonder if anything else will be different.

birdmove

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2008, 06:40:51 AM »
    I can tell you that the dealership I work at (HD/Buell) would have an off season sale on the XL883 and sell them with no freight and setup fees, usually at $5999.00, and this would be in the winter time, and often to make way for the following years bikes. Peak season, your not going to get these breaks. Most dealers,Japanese and any makes, put on freight and setup fees, and these can vary wildly in the amounts.Somet will waive these fees in the cold months when motorcycles don't sell well. Its not just Harley-Davidsons.

    jon

   
Jon in Keaau, Hawaii

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Re: MSRP for the USA version of the Bullet Classic?
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2008, 08:52:51 PM »
In all fairness to HD, their catalog does list the MSRP and the add-ons in the back with the bikes' specs.  The freight alone is pretty hefty although I don't know if it is an unusual amount or not.  Never had to ship a whole motorcycle before.