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Author Topic: Classic UCE availability  (Read 4279 times)

dagdavid

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Classic UCE availability
« on: November 04, 2008, 11:52:32 AM »
Andrew Anantharaj, Senior Manager International Business at Enfield responded to my email about availability.  Andrew says the bike will be available in the US beginning June 2009.  I asked him about price and reserving one and he said to check the enfieldmotorcycles.com in May of '09 for details.

Bath Bullet

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2008, 02:15:25 PM »
Seems like you are getting it late, it appeaers from what I saw the other day we get it in January, and its rrp is 4495, thats a WHOPPING 1500 up on the old Classic, and a 1000 on the last AVL!
If I was in the market I would be looking at a new Bonnie................
Makes me love my Iron pot even more!
Best regards
Terry
BITING THE BULLET:  2001 500 CLASSIC living in Sunny Bat, Somerset
Also 2008 TRIUMPH BONNEVILLE 865 EFI

cochi

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2008, 02:58:14 PM »
Scots, very good point.  Also glad to have my old iron classic. I think I'll hang onto it for a while. cochi  ;)

PhilJ

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2008, 04:39:06 PM »
Confucius says "If you only buy based  on price you will get what you didn't want."

Chasfield

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2008, 11:18:43 AM »
Have a look at Indian pricing for UCE models.

120,000 rupees gets you a sweet looking cycle. There are about 77 rupees in a GB pound. So that bike is going for 1,560 GBP.

No wonder they like to export them to UK buyers.

We are given stupid pills in school to make us into "good" consumers.
2001 500 Bullet Deluxe

David R

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2008, 08:14:24 PM »
Thanx for sharing, that's exciting news! Might be good timing for me.

Jon

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2008, 02:08:36 PM »
The home market price is bound to be lower.

The home market bike is a 350 not a 500 this doesn't make it cheaper to make
but there has to be a price differential between the two capacities for marketing
purposes if nothing else.

In the past expoert bikes for the European and US markets have alledgedly been
finished to a higher standard, extra cost there perhaps.

They build a lot more 350 models than 500's so there is an economy of scale factor to
consider.

Now add the shipping costs and the US or UK dealers mark up, they are after all
in business to make a profit, plus the cost of any additional dealer fitted parts
mandated for particular markets. Chuck some import duties and tax on top of that
and the price differential is perhaps not as surprising.

Chasfield

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2008, 02:37:12 AM »
There again, in the UK you can by all manner of small Chinese motorcycles for around 1000 GBP each.

I still think we are paying too much for the latest Bullets.
2001 500 Bullet Deluxe

Spitting Bull

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2008, 05:40:37 AM »
Some of us aren't paying anything for the latest bullets!  We're keeping our beautiful iron-engined 350s and enjoying every moment!

Tom
One cylinder is enough for anyone.

Bath Bullet

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2008, 11:33:49 AM »
There again, in the UK you can by all manner of small Chinese motorcycles for around 1000 GBP each.
Not if you have any sense you wont!
They may be Honda GY6 clones, but they are rubbish, chronic after sale service, have little spares backup, and some even cant be registered for the road because they don't have the paper work.
Most never see the 1st MOT three years from new.
Avoid like the plague!
Its an injustice to put 'Chinese scooter' and Royal Enfield in the same sentence, let alone conpare, there is no comparison.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 11:36:30 AM by Scots Bullet »
Best regards
Terry
BITING THE BULLET:  2001 500 CLASSIC living in Sunny Bat, Somerset
Also 2008 TRIUMPH BONNEVILLE 865 EFI

Chasfield

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2008, 12:58:07 PM »
Without question, there are a lot of negatives regarding many of the Chinese motorcycles that have been imported into the UK so far, and it didn't take me long to decide that the Bullet was hugely preferable.

However, one comparison does stand: Royal Enfield takes advantage of low domestic production costs and ships its products all around the globe, just like the Chinese manufacturers, yet the UCE Bullet pricing is looking more like what you would might expect for machines produced in a high-cost economy.

Remember also that one reason we are getting the UCE is product rationalization. The new engine will have less major cast components and fewer finishing operations to be done on them.

It will cost a lot lest to produce, and how nice it would have been for us all if the on the road price  had been a bit closer to the old iron Bullet level.

2001 500 Bullet Deluxe

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2008, 06:00:56 AM »
While you are correct that the price is going up for the UCE, let me put to rest the notion that this engine will cost less to produce. Quite the opposite is true. All castings are High pressure die castings instead of gravity  flow castings, the machining tolerances are tighter, materials are better, The in internal components are much more expensive and the EFI and catalytic converter are hugely expensive. For example, the factory is paying almost $600 just for the silencer with a German 3 way cat.
  The engineering and research that went onto this came from the top engineering firms all over the world. To obtain modern reliability and lack of routine maintenance this is what is required. In a low cost environment you can make money by having cheap labor if it is a labor intensive process and by huge volumes. The Chinese have no R and D, dirt cheap labor and produce units like Minnesota produces mosquito's. and embarrassing politicians. (First Jesse "the body" Ventura, now maybe Al Franken and I am sure that Pee Wee Herman is next.).
  When you have a higher tech product like this engine labor is a factor but not a huge factor (RE is a union environment) and volumes are relatively low.

Chasfield

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2008, 06:41:48 AM »
I must accept that you are much better placed to judge these matters than I. However, the demise of the Classic Bullet at the 2500 GBP price point does leave a void in the marketplace that Chinese manufacturers could fill one day - if they got serious about quality, spares support and dealer networks.
2001 500 Bullet Deluxe

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2008, 09:42:35 AM »
You are correct abut the void. I think one problem with the Chinese is that they don't really have an R and D to improve their products. Also no rigorous quality programs. I also find it amusing when government officials like the EPA tell the public that the cost of less Emerson's is very little. It is a lot - however we need to do it, but lets just be straight about it. Now the catalytic converter is by far the most expensive piece on the bike. REM had sourced a cat from China that was reasonable, but the TUV officials in Europe said that no Chinese cats are allowed period end of conversation. Might have something to do with the fact that they have been caught in the U getting bikes with cats approved and then installing cats with no precious metals in them  - hence they don't work they just look like cats.

stipa

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2008, 12:33:01 PM »
When you have a higher tech product like this engine labor is a factor but not a huge factor (RE is a union environment) and volumes are relatively low.


The R.E. factory in Chennai is Union?  I find this both surprising and gratifiying.  (Yes, I'm union too)!



From what I've seen and heard on here, (and other forums), and YouTube,  the Bullet and Royal Enfield in general, enjoys a pride of distinction amongst its workers and Indian people overall.  This is cool.
They'll continue to want to do it better.  Design, implementation, assembly/construction, and distribution.  Reward the workers, integrate them into the process, and the system perpetuates itself.
On the flip side, make sure your employees know they are involved in an "interim" situation, the company is looking for a buyer, (even a holding company),  cut wages,
issue onerous memos, and promote from outside the firm, and see what you get.

Fact is, the costs of everything have been going up, over most of the globe.  We all know this.  And most of us know, you get what you pay for. 
I don't know what R.E has into these things (Bullets) when they roll off assembly, but I know the transportation business, and what with freight expeditors, agents, stevedores (on both ends), ocean shipping, fuel surcharges, longshore services, and rail/truck distribution on arrival, it can add up to a lot.  Oh yeah, don't forget Customs, insurance, and the importer/dealer mark-up. 

I'm intending on buying a UCE, later if not sooner.  I want to see if there will be some options on that "exhaust" pipe. 
It'll still be cheaper than a new Sportster, and nobody has tagged the Bullet as a "girls' bike" either.

By the way,  Perpich was a pretty good Guv., don'cha think?

Steve

meilaushi

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2008, 01:44:01 PM »
This looks and sounds like a very neat bike from your description (for wihich, many thanks!) Kevin, and if it'll hold 65-70 all day long, I see no need to keep my '07 Bonneville.  Esp. given the fact that the Bonnie gets all of 40-42 mpg and the Bullet gets c. 70.  But I'll keep my iron barrel anyway.  A feller can't have too many bikes! ;D  ( like golf...  who ever heard of playing with 1 or 2 irons??? ::)  )
Ralph Meyer
2008 RE Classic Bullet ES :) "Ennypenny" (It's an Enfield and costs pennies to run!)
2010 RE Deluxe G-5 :)) "Eagle"
2010 BMW F800ST
Ridin' 58 years & counting!  Back roads are fun! Member IBA.

Leonard

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2008, 02:09:11 PM »
. For example, the factory is paying almost $600 just for the silencer with a German 3 way cat.
 

Now that is a crying shame as that will be the first thing most new owners replace.
2009 Triumph Bonneville T100
2004 Royal Enfield Sixty-5 (RIP)
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RAKe

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2008, 08:44:32 PM »
In this interesting conversation, I thought I might add some historical perspective.  In Hawaii in the mid-60s, my father bought a Datsun--a cheap and economical Japanese car (Japanese culture has a strong influence in Hawaii).  I was only a tyke (generally dealing with the fantastic bugs in the Islands), but I remember the discussions of the Datsun (now Nissan) being "junk".

Decades later I can apply that ideology to the Chinese product quality requirements in the auto and motorcycle industry.  These people might have been suppressed for centuries by an oppressive government, but be careful of underestimating them now that the freedom of capitalism has reached them.   Although the motorcycle market in general is extremely competitive, you can expect the impact of these new entrants will grow considerably in the NEAR future.  Look what happened with those "junk" Japanese cars!

You can bet Japanese companies have researched their Chinese competitors thoroughly, but in the meantime fat and stupid American executives are too busy catering to their cronies, buying a bigger house, or balling their foxy secretary.  (The purpose of that comment is to demonstrate the ineptitude of American auto executives in competing in a world-wide market, with a little social reality thrown in).  As a proud American, Id like to personally and physically rearrange their (priorities), but....  The larger question is--should we reward American executive stupidity with a government bailout at the expense of hardworking Americans?  I VOTE NO!!  Let these idiot companies die--we'll get by.  Let the strong (and well managed) prevail.  There was no bailout for the Tucker, a car decades ahead of its time!!

I think the days of the RE being a quaint vehicle in minimial numbers is over.  Before I bought my first Harley-Davidson, I seriously looked at the RE product, but its antiquated design scared me away.  When the new UCE arrives next summer, I could be first in line!
« Last Edit: November 10, 2008, 06:27:30 PM by RAKe »
196? Triumph 500 (basket case), 1968 BSA 650 (needed work), 1976 Triumph T140V 750 (ran well), 2004 Harley-Davidson XL883C, 2007 Harley-Davidson FXDB

Waiting to order 2012 Royal Enfield Bullet Deluxe

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2008, 12:09:57 PM »
I fail to see the problem with the "foxy Secretary"?

Jon

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2008, 02:33:31 PM »
RE Foxy secretary

I think he's trying to say they don't deserve it and the problem would be that the
rest of us don't get the chance

For myself I'd pass on it as I'm married to a redhead who owns a .357 Magnum
and habitually loads hollow points.

meilaushi

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2008, 09:20:18 AM »
The foxy secretary may be part of the reason the dimbulb auto execs over here haven't gotten it for ages (well, the 'it' regarding motor vehicles, that is).  I'd agree that we should let the stoops go to the wall, if it weren't for the thousands of auto workers who had nothing to do with such stuff as the Garbage Manufacturing Company's Hummer (NOT a humdinger by any stretch of the imagination) or Found On a Russian Dump company's Sucking Useless Vehicle (SUVs) gas guzzlers.

What oughta happen is that these incompetants should be thrown out, the static lines on their golden parachutes cut all the way around, and have the stockholders put in some competant people at a far better and definitely unbloated pay scale.
Ralph Meyer
2008 RE Classic Bullet ES :) "Ennypenny" (It's an Enfield and costs pennies to run!)
2010 RE Deluxe G-5 :)) "Eagle"
2010 BMW F800ST
Ridin' 58 years & counting!  Back roads are fun! Member IBA.

PhilJ

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2008, 09:48:15 AM »
Gosh meilaushi, I'm glad you got the GMC and Ford thing off your chest. ------ But I think you right on track with the solution.


Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2008, 03:56:23 PM »
Steve,
I just caught up with your post. Perch was at least an interesting Governor. However it can only get better in MN, First Jesse "The body" Venture, now maybe Al Franken, I am sure that Pee Wee Herman will be next to get elected in this crazy place. (I am not kidding)

i]When you have a higher tech product like this engine labor is a factor but not a huge factor (RE is a union environment) and volumes are relatively low.

You are basically right here although while the engines are machined by modern Rubicon machines, they are assembled by hand. At present the frames and most tanks are also literally made by hand. A lot of the fenders are as well ,although with the UCE bikes that is changing. There is still a lot of hand work done on these bikes, more than most I would say. Even at that labor is not the big deal at present.

The R.E. factory in Chennai is Union?  I find this both surprising and gratifying.  (Yes, I'm union too)!

Many if not most of the larger industries are unionized in India near as I can tell. This surprised me also when I started to travel to India. However I would guess that the largest part of the populating works "off the books" and that is another matter. Workers at Enfield get a living wage and the jobs are really sought after. Here is an interesting example of how things work in India - The airlines in India are in trouble much like the rest of the world. They are so overmanned that is it absurd - but they do give totally excellent service, like the old days. Jet Airways laid off 2,000 people while I was there, The next day they were all back at work as the government demanded that Jet hire them back.

From what I've seen and heard on here, (and other forums), and YouTube,  the Bullet and Royal Enfield in general, enjoys a pride of distinction amongst its workers and Indian people overall.  This is cool
They'll continue to want to do it better.  Design, implementation, assembly/construction, and distribution.  Reward the workers, integrate them into the process, and the system perpetuates itself..


On the flip side, make sure your employees know they are involved in an "interim" situation, the company is looking for a buyer, (even a holding company),  cut wages,
issue onerous memos, and promote from outside the firm, and see what you get.


REM is as bureaucratic as any Indian company or many large international companies for that matter. They are not for sale as they are wholly owned by the Lal family. They just made hundreds of millions by selling a stake in their main company to Volvo so the CEO is very happy with REM. It is his passion

Fact is, the costs of everything have been going up, over most of the globe.  We all know this.  And most of us know, you get what you pay for. 
I don't know what R.E has into these things (Bullets) when they roll off assembly, but I know the transportation business, and what with freight expeditors, agents, stevedores (on both ends), ocean shipping, fuel surcharges, longshore services, and rail/truck distribution on arrival, it can add up to a lot.  Oh yeah, don't forget Customs, insurance, and the importer/dealer mark-up. 


To give you an idea, on this end after we have paid to get the goods to the port in Norfolk and unloaded, it generally costs at least another $1,000 to get the container cleared through customs and into the warehouse. Customs charges outrageous fees now due to extra security, a clearing agent to do the paperwork is quite expensive etc.
 The new three stage catalytic converter bears a cost of $600 making it by far the single most expensive component in the bike. They buy them from Germany. At present no one in India is making cats for two wheelers, but sooner or later someone will. When you read about some EPA official saying that the extra cost to comply with this rule or that, is only $12.57  you can laugh outloud.
The oddest new cost is for power. India is short of power and to it's credit is not throwing up dirty unregulated coal power plants every day like China. They use coal, but they are trying to build cleaner ones. The answer for them is the nuclear technology deal they made with US. Hopefully Obama will go along with it. Factories in southern India have been told to only use power for one half of the time they are open. The rest of the time they have to use internal generators. This is adding $30 to the cost of each bike just for this alone.


'm intending on buying a UCE, later if not sooner.  I want to see if there will be some options on that "exhaust" pipe. 
It'll still be cheaper than a new Sportster, and nobody has tagged the Bullet as a "girls' bike" either.

By the way,  Perpich was a pretty good Guv., don'cha think?

Steve[/i]

meilaushi

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2008, 08:06:10 AM »
. For example, the factory is paying almost $600 just for the silencer with a German 3 way cat.
 

Now that is a crying shame as that will be the first thing most new owners replace.

Ain't that the truth!  ;D
Ralph Meyer
2008 RE Classic Bullet ES :) "Ennypenny" (It's an Enfield and costs pennies to run!)
2010 RE Deluxe G-5 :)) "Eagle"
2010 BMW F800ST
Ridin' 58 years & counting!  Back roads are fun! Member IBA.

meilaushi

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2008, 08:13:39 AM »
Gosh meilaushi, I'm glad you got the GMC and Ford thing off your chest. ------ But I think you right on track with the solution.
Thankee kindly, PhilJ!  The terminology unfortunately isn't mine--it originated with the kids in the neighborhodd, but I think it has been dang appropriate, especially when the CEO of GMC said the vehicle to buy was the Hummer (UGH!--gas guzzler par horribilis).  Talk about a twit with gasoline going to $4.00 a gallon, and oil reserves being depleted at millions of gallons per annum, if not per month or diem.  Geez!!!  And bail those sucker out?  The folks I feel sorry for are the workers who have no say in what the companies punch out.  (Rant #213A5)  Ah well.

But I LOVE my RE!  Now there's REAL transportation!!!
Ralph Meyer
2008 RE Classic Bullet ES :) "Ennypenny" (It's an Enfield and costs pennies to run!)
2010 RE Deluxe G-5 :)) "Eagle"
2010 BMW F800ST
Ridin' 58 years & counting!  Back roads are fun! Member IBA.

PhilJ

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2008, 10:34:35 AM »
Yes, the workers are always the one to take it on the chin. Right before the CEOs get their golden parachute. Grr

meilaushi

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Re: Classic UCE availability
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2008, 04:54:49 PM »
Amen to that Grrrrr... and the stupids flew their corporate jets to Washington to try to get congress to give 'em $25 billion to bail out their lousy mistakes.  What they should do is keep the workers and kick the lousy CEOs the *&^% out! >:(  Mow 'em as one does a lawn... cut the top and let the good roots and grass stay sonce the top's stupid decisions are what have blown it for the auto industry.
Ralph Meyer
2008 RE Classic Bullet ES :) "Ennypenny" (It's an Enfield and costs pennies to run!)
2010 RE Deluxe G-5 :)) "Eagle"
2010 BMW F800ST
Ridin' 58 years & counting!  Back roads are fun! Member IBA.