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Author Topic: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.  (Read 6418 times)

Deezil

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Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« on: November 26, 2008, 01:05:54 PM »
I just Got a Call back from My Dealer here in MO

I called him about availability of the new bikes last week and he stated that He was trying to get a hold of his RE Dist about availability and Price on the bikes already.  I guess they got back to him early yesterday.

According to the Dist........The bikes are on their way to the states and the Price is Going to be about $6800, He noted the significant price increase.

 I asked him to call me if he get's anymore info.

So I guess that's what about a $1500 jump to the new model from last years model?
Is this much of a price jump Upsetting to anyone?  It is definitely less than what my Bonnie was new but not much.  I Was hoping it was going to be around $6k.


Blue Ridge Wheeltor

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2008, 01:53:00 PM »
Is that $6800 msrp? if so, add shipping and setup and you are well into the 7's.
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REpozer

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2008, 01:54:46 PM »
It seems a little high to me, but as someone already stated, the Indian labor market is lower than UK, so that being the case it is good business sense to price your bike a little on the high side and what the market does.If you are having a difficult time moving product they( RE) will be able to lower the price ( factory incentives) probably allot easier then Triumph or BMW, however it seems the Japanese are always ready for a game of hard ball, never know what they may come up with.
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Chasfield

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2008, 02:08:13 PM »
I've posted a few moans and groans already about fancy UCE bike pricing. With Japanese 250s coming in at well under 4000 dollars I think that a level of 6800 for the UCE will leave them sitting high and dry.

RE will, I am sure, get real on pricing pretty quickly, particularly now that the recession is biting.
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ace.cafe

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2008, 03:37:28 PM »
I sort of expected that price range.
I voted $6500-$7000 on the poll a few weeks ago.

However, the UCE does have some things to commend it, which separates it from the other "competition".
It cannot be compared to a Japco 250 really, because the 250s  don't have much torque to speak of, and therefore don't have the wide powerband that the 500 single will have. The 500 will be eminently more "rideable", just like our present Bullets are much more "rideable" than the crop of 250s. And often 250s are considered "kid's bikes", and the 500 won't have to suffer that stigma. So that helps.
Also, the styling is very retro, and really has no competition at all in that area. Even the other "retro bikes" don't go as "retro" as the new UCE does. The UCE stands alone in that department, and we'll have to see how much consumer attraction that style has. It is very quaint and  almost "formal" looking as a motorcycle, and has an upright riding position. And it should get very good fuel mileage, which would set it apart from the other bigger displacement bikes, and the fuel prices WILL go back up again at some point.

Interestingly, the very thing that RE has strived to accomplish, which is "push the button and ride anywhere" type of reliability, is likely to be a non-factor in the initial purchasing decision. The typical consumer just expects that to be "standard equipment" in ANY motorcycle they buy today. So, it will just be assumed to be reliable like every other bike out there is, and won't play much of a role in today's consumer choices of bikes. But it may very well make them a repeat customer down the road, or recommend it to friends, if they are not disappointed in the reliability. So that should pay dividends for the marque as we go forward, IF it really is as reliable as we're told it will be.

What will sell this bike is the appearance. Purchasing a bike is a very emotional decision.People will "envision themselves" riding a bike like this, and will buy it on that criteria primarily. That's what they did with the older Bullets too. However, the idea with the new UCE is to not drive the customers away from the bike and the marque with unreliable results when they didn't pay any attention to the instructions. They just want to hop on and ride, and look like what they "envision" themselves to look like, and not have any problems.

So, for a person like that, who likes the looks, and can "see himself owning and riding one", and doesn't get disappointed with bad reliability, the bike can be a success.
Certainly is it still low enough in price to be considered "affordable" in the current motorcycle market price ranges. If a person fancies owning one, it is likely to be within reach of most people who could buy any new motorcycle.
They will buy it, because they like it, and aren't interested in the Harley "look" or the Triumph "look" or the Yamaha "look".
And they very well may think, "Wow! I got this beautiful Royal Enfield for less than that Harley or Triumph that I didn't like as well as this RE anyway. I got a bargain!"
And don't be surprised if that's  exactly what you'll hear from the new owners as they join our forum here with their new UCE bikes. Not everybody thinks that a Harley or a Triumph is worth the extra money to buy, when they like the Royal Enfield better.

These people who will be new UCE owners are going to be our "comrades on bikes" and will be the ones to carry the RE marque forward, if it is to be continued.  And when we see them out there, and hear about how much people like them, we may very well eventually become UCE owners in the future.

If it only had that kick-starter on it! :D
« Last Edit: November 26, 2008, 04:04:06 PM by ace.cafe »
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REpozer

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2008, 04:16:59 PM »
These people who will be new UCE owners are going to be our "comrades on bikes" and will be the ones to carry the RE marque forward, if it is to be continued.  And when we see them out there, and hear about how much people like them, we may very well eventually become UCE owners in the future.
The rest of use RE owners will be considered  Super Cool Old School riders. :)
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Eamon

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2008, 04:27:04 PM »
I've posted a few moans and groans already about fancy UCE bike pricing. With Japanese 250s coming in at well under 4000 dollars I think that a level of 6800 for the UCE will leave them sitting high and dry.

RE will, I am sure, get real on pricing pretty quickly, particularly now that the recession is biting.

Well, by that way of thinking, why would any of us have ever bought our current Bullets?  You could have gotten a Japanese 250 for much less than these as well.  When I bought my Bullet, the only other bike that interested me was a Bonneville - something that also looks more or less like a "real" motorcycle to me.  I rejected it because it was too oversized and heavy for what I wanted.  I considered the Bullet to be dirt cheap by comparison, and it still did everything I wanted.  Had this new Bullet been available I would have chosen it in a second as well.  I think Ace laid out a pretty good set of reasons why.

How do you know Enfield isn't real on the pricing?  I'm sure the bike costs them a fair amount to make.

Eamon
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bobg

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2008, 06:21:30 PM »
"These people who will be new UCE owners are going to be our "comrades on bikes" and will be the ones to carry the RE marque forward, if it is to be continued.  And when we see them out there, and hear about how much people like them, we may very well eventually become UCE owners in the future." ace.cafe

Ace...you are The Great Orator!

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2008, 07:33:49 PM »
If the $6800 is msrp, then BUMMER.   >:( 

But Kevin hasn't confirmed (or denied) it yet, so I'll just hope that it isn't that high.

But if that IS the price then let's hope its reliability makes the price worth it.  I still want to see the stock USA version.

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2008, 10:45:05 PM »
I don't know how this stuff starts. I can tell you that I was on the phone with the factory this very morning about production of these bikes. I can tell you for an absolute fact that not one bike has been made for the US market, much less "on the way to us".
  I can also tell you that pricing for the US is not set. I know this because I am the one that sets price - period. You can draw no assumptions from European pricing, it is an apples and oranges deal. What I can say is that the UCE bikes will be more expensive than the current bikes. It looks like we will be selling three lines of bikes this year. We will have 2009 Lean-Burn bikes just as we do now. They will be the most modestly priced bike. Those prices are now on our web-site. We will have bikes with the UCE engine that resemble the current bikes except with different sidecovers a new frame and a front disk brake. This bike will be more expensive. None of these have yet been made for us. Europe has priority because they cannot sell Lean-Burns. Later in the season we will have the new Classic or C-5 which was introduced in Cologne. This bike will be more expensive yet. Worst case they all will be less expensive than the Bonneville. When prices are solidified you will know. Those of you who follow this forum frequently know things before anyone else. Stay tuned.

Lastly no UCE bikes will be sold to anyone until dealers have been trained. That will not occur until the first couple of weeks of Feb. So don't look for anything with the UCE engine to be available in the near future.

Deezil

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2008, 09:41:35 AM »
Sorry.

Im Sticking with what My Dealer tells me. 
Whoever he is is talking to is telling him the bike will be here the first of the year. 

Regaurdless....

$6800 Sounds a little High to me, so if You are the man who Names the prices I think that price needs to come down a few notches.

Hell not even $1500 more and you can a get a Bonnie or a Sportster...

ace.cafe

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2008, 09:54:57 AM »
Sorry.

Im Sticking with what My Dealer tells me. 
Whoever he is is talking to is telling him the bike will be here the first of the year. 

Regaurdless....

$6800 Sounds a little High to me, so if You are the man who Names the prices I think that price needs to come down a few notches.

Hell not even $1500 more and you can a get a Bonnie or a Sportster...

Well, if you want to go out and spend another extra $1500 more for something else, then I don't see anybody stopping you.

However, Kevin did clearly state that the price is not yet set.
And the US importer(Kevin) and the letter from the RE Factory in India, both say June 2009 for release in the US.
Although I'm sure everyone would be pleased to see it earlier.
Where is your dealer getting his info? And why would his info supercede the Factory and the US Importer info?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2008, 10:13:53 AM by ace.cafe »
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Deezil

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2008, 10:21:01 AM »
Whats the Deal here? 

Im Just Telling you this is what my Dealer told me?
I Dont know where he gets his info from?  Im not a Dealer.
Someone must Know a price point or they wouldn't be telling him the price.


He's a extended Line dealer so he must know someone..




daves02ES

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2008, 11:11:04 AM »
Whats the Deal here?

I think the deal is that Keven is the sole US distributor and would know better that anyone else when the new UCE bikes are coming in and what the price will be. Are you sure your dealer is talking about the new UCE bike or the 2009 AVL Lean-Burn.
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Eamon

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2008, 11:18:30 AM »
Hell not even $1500 more and you can a get a Bonnie or a Sportster...

Even if this were to turn out to be true, how would spending anything more than what the Bullet will cost for a Bonnie or Sportster be objectively better?  The new Bullet will be capable of cruising at all legal road speeds, will likely be more user serviceable than the Bonnie or Sportster, possibly 100 pounds or more lighter than either (better handling?), and will likely get considerably better gas mileage.  Add to that the more subjective aspect of looks - neither the Bonnie or the Sportster come close to trumping the new Bullet (or current Bullets) in the looks department, at least to my eye.

Eamon
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Deezil

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2008, 11:32:26 AM »
Whats the Deal here?

Are you sure your dealer is talking about the new UCE bike or the 2009 AVL Lean-Burn.

He is talking about the Unit engine...........

Chasfield

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2008, 11:51:27 AM »

How do you know Enfield isn't real on the pricing?  I'm sure the bike costs them a fair amount to make.

Eamon

It is just that I think RE has chosen a bad time to make its great leap forward. In the UK our economy is collapsing around us like a punctured bouncy castle. Launching the UCE bikes with a stupendous price hike seems a bit out of synch. with the times we are living in.

That said, the other manufacturers have more or less abandoned the market for 500 cc street bikes over here, so RE will at least have it to itself.
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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2008, 11:57:13 AM »
Whoa----Deezil only knows what he was told. Is it possible someone in the office said something that was misinterpreted, sure it is?

birdmove

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2008, 11:58:03 AM »
   Our US economy's problems are well known. I work at a Harley-Davidson/Buell dealer and they have had a lot of layoffs.So far my job is secure. But now they have just announced (HD that is) the release of the new XR1200 in the USA (finally) after having released it in the UK and Europe allready. I want one of those too. But, as anyone working at a dealership knows, the pays not good.I made way more money working at a truck repair shop working on big freight hauling trucks. I quit that job after 24 years to go and work in the field of motorcycles (my life long passion), and also cut my commute from 65 miles to 15 miles.

   Jon
« Last Edit: November 27, 2008, 12:03:33 PM by birdmove »
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Deezil

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2008, 12:04:31 PM »
I think the Bonnie looks great!  
Is it worth $1500 more than the uce bike? Well with 30 more hp I would say yeah.

These are things they better look at when they go to price them the uce bike.


Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2008, 12:14:37 PM »
Chasfield makes a good point, but no one picked a time to introduce anything. The timing is what the timing is. Interestingly enough  while we are very concerned about economic conditions things have not been too bad. It helps that we are carrying a product that is modestly priced. High oil was helpful to us this year as well. While consumer financing has gotten tighter it is still available especially for lower ticket items. There is plenty of financing available to dealers to finance inventory which is a very good thing. No one is going to raise prices a penny more than they have to so this year will probably be a good year to buy things that you have waited for.

Eamon

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2008, 12:49:44 PM »
I think the Bonnie looks great!  

I think so as well.  They are indeed good looking bikes.  I just think the Bullets (new and old) look even better!  As I said, that part is purely subjective.   :)

Is it worth $1500 more than the uce bike? Well with 30 more hp I would say yeah.
Well, I didn't ask if the the Bonnie was worth $1500 more.  I asked if it was necessarily "better" than the Bullet, given the criteria I laid out (crusing ability, weight, handling, user serviceablility, gas mileage, and looks).  My point is that the Bullet seems worth every penny the Bonnie is by those criteria, and is a bargain for every penny LESS than a Bonnie that it ends up costing.  If you really need/ want that extra 30 HP (and the extra 100 pounds that comes with it) then by all means buy the Bonnie.  I would bet though, that the new Bullet will be able to keep up with a Bonnie no problem at all reasonable speeds.

More is not necessarily better to everyone, sometimes it's just more!  If the extra HP is really a big deal for you, then is it maybe the case that a Bullet is not for you at any reasonable price?  Just throwing the question out there... ???

Eamon
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Bath Bullet

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2008, 01:04:44 PM »
I suspect Deezils dealer may be stringing him along to keep his money in his pocket as long as possible, and not spend it somewhere else?
Best regards
Terry
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Also 2008 TRIUMPH BONNEVILLE 865 EFI

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2008, 01:10:28 PM »
I own a new Bonneville, an old Bonneville and many RE's both old and new. (not to mention several other "off brands like an old Shovelhead Harley). I really like my Bonneville's and I really like my RE's. While there are many legitimate points of comparison, for me they are not at all similar. None of it centers around price. There is nothing like the sound of my old Bonnie with Norton pipes, just as there is nothing like the sound of an RE thumper. Same with feel, completely different.

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2008, 01:12:59 PM »
If Deezils dealer is who I think he is, he is as straight as the day is long. I suspect a conversation about ranges of prices and dates may have been turned into something more definitive by mistake, a bit like a game of telephone.

t120rbullet

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2008, 01:20:56 PM »
I own a new Bonneville, an old Bonneville and many RE's both old and new. (not to mention several other "off brands like an old Shovelhead Harley).

Ha, I knew it I knew it I knew it. A Harley!
A closet Harley guy, no wonder you never joined in on the kitty-litter action at the Rally on the River.

 
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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2008, 02:02:20 PM »
Well sort of, it is in my garage in pieces and has been like that for quite a while. Pity really since I have all of the repainted sheetmetal and other parts needed to restore it. Too bad I have to work for a living. Interestingly enough all of my restoration activites have ground to a halt since I started this business........although there is a Flat Head Ford engine making slow progress.

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2008, 06:34:44 PM »
Weird as it might seem, I'm just glad the AVL models will have at least one more year.  They're cheaper, and I like the idea of having one more year for those who want a bike they can fix themselves.

....Meh.  Viva la Enfield!
There's something that doesn't make sense... let's go and poke it with a stick.

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2008, 11:25:32 AM »
If the price for the new bike is just shy of 7 grand it won't be enough bike at that price, in my opinion.  You can get a Sportster for that money and like 'em or not, it's a LOT more bike.  Also, the U.S. Dollar has had quite a dramatic increase in value lately, so imports should be more reasonably priced than recently, don't you trhink?  I am quite interested in the new Classic, but not at that sort of money!  It would have to come in at around 5 grand for me.  Let's not forget that they are cheap as chips in India, where production costs are WAY lower than here. Of course the resurgant Dollar may be seen as a chance for a much higher profit margin, rather than a better price for the consumer?  BAH HUMBUG!

ace.cafe

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2008, 11:49:50 AM »
  You can get a Sportster for that money and like 'em or not, it's a LOT more bike. 

Ha ha!
Yep, it sure is!
About 200 pounds of dead lard more bike. :D
Perhaps a person could hang 4 50 pound sacks of sand on their Enfield, so they can feel more like a Harley.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2008, 11:56:27 AM by ace.cafe »
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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2008, 12:08:11 PM »
  You can get a Sportster for that money and like 'em or not, it's a LOT more bike. 

Ha ha!
Yep, it sure is!
About 200 pounds of dead lard more bike. :D
Perhaps a person could hang 4 50 pound sacks of sand on their Enfield, so they can feel more like a Harley.

Indeed!  The Sportster is the only Harley that has any appeal to me, but that extra weight and the too low for my taste riding position would mean that it would have to cost sonsiderable LESS than a Bullet for me to consider it.  I'm not knocking Sportsters - I just don't buy the notion that it's better just because it's bigger - it's just heavier in my book!

Eamon
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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2008, 01:13:45 PM »
ExiledCapenter - Nice to see you online, it has been awhile (unless I have just missed you). I think that most any bike is a good bike...for someone.

Indiana Josh

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2008, 12:51:39 AM »
Personally, I'm very glad I bought my '08 Military iron engine at the time that I did, while they're still around, so that it could FORCE me to learn about bikes. And so far, it HAS been forcing me. I wanted a bike that I would love, that I could nurture, and that I could grow and learn from. It's been a great experience so far. Eventually, I think I'll be a very confident rider and "mechanic" and will feel comfortable poking around in the innards of most bikes.  This is what I want.


With that said, however, I also think that whenever (if ever) RE rolls out the Military model in the UCE, I will probably be trading mine in. I can't say I'm a 100% purist like others here, and I personally like the idea of having a bike that has more power and more reliability, and is capable of cruising highway speeds if I so choose (not sure that I will, though).

So overall, I'm glad I bought one of the true classics so that I could learn from it and have a little piece of RE "history" -- but I'm also excited about owning the next stage of RE evolution in the same Military model that I love so much.
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exiledcarper

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2008, 10:36:36 PM »
RE1, yes I've been tied up with other stuff lately. I thought it was about time to stir the pot a little though. Sportster or UCE? I think I would rather the new R.E.personally, but I think I made a valid point on the price point.  I do think that most would see the Harley as more bike for the money,if they are indeed similarily priced..  I do think the new Classic looks very nice,I hope the U.S. version looks like that, rather than a UCE powered Electra, as seen in Europe. I also think that many will be hoping you can retro fit a "sporty" exhaust,with suitable bark.Not sure how that would fit in with a factory set fuel injector?  Do you think that the new motor will be owner "tweakable", in other words,, will you be able to alter fuel mixture to suit a nice safe,LOUD exhaust system?

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2008, 11:23:34 PM »
... I also think that many will be hoping you can retro fit a "sporty" exhaust,with suitable bark.Not sure how that would fit in with a factory set fuel injector?  Do you think that the new motor will be owner "tweakable", in other words,, will you be able to alter fuel mixture to suit a nice safe,LOUD exhaust system?
While there are govt. forces trying to restrict or prohibit aftermarket motorcycle exhausts, most fuel injection systems "learn" from the exhaust system installed and adjust optimal fuel/air accordingly.  I imagine the UCE will be similar.

I sat on a new 883 Low today at the overflowing HD/Buell dealer and was not all that impressed.  That 550# weight is low but still very evident.  The $6995 price tag is pretty low and I imagine the Sporty would hold its value better over the years than the new RE.

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2008, 11:34:16 AM »
Well, it's doubtless that some will prefer other bikes. I think that is to be expected, given the differences in consumer tastes.

But, RE only has to have a niche. I don't think anyone is expecting RE to surpass Harley-Davidson sales volume. If the new RE can maintain a similar market penetration here in the US, as it has in the past, then that's a good start and it can work on building up from there.

The main thing is that the bike visually appeals to a certain demographic of sufficient numbers, and has reliability and performance within the reasonable expectations of the people who purchase them.
The people who buy them will obviously have liked the appearance, and as long as the bike gives them no real reason to start hating it, then it will be fine. The owners will then speak well of it to others, and the sales volume will start to increase as word gets out that it's a nice bike that costs less than many other choices, and offers some unique qualities.
That's all it really needs to do.

I'm sure that there are Bullet owners right here on this forum board who would have paid $2k extra to have 70mph highway cruising ability, some extra power and torque, and no reliability worries.

I personally feel that the Sportster is not in a category that competes with the RE, because of the differences involved.
The Bonneville may be a closer comparison, which might appeal to Brit bike buyers seeking choices, and the RE could face competition from the Bonnie for those purchasers who prefer more power and a twin.

I think that demonstrator rides are important. The Bullet is perceived as a very slow bike by uninitiated consumers, because the spec-sheet numbers for hp look very low. Assumptions are made that the Bullet is barely above a mo-ped, for that reason.
Once a person rides a Bullet, and sees that it is quite adequate for fun road riding, then the apprehensions of low power tend to evaporate.
The spec-sheets work against the Bullet severely. They don't tell the story.
It is up to the dealers to give the customers a  chance to ride on a Bullet, so they can see that it is a real motorcycle in the real world, and not a mo-ped.

If a person likes the appearance of a Bullet enough to come to a dealer to look at them, and gets to experience how fun they are to ride, then the spec-sheet info is a thing of the past, and the consumer makes the decsion based on real world performance instead of a preconceived notion..
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 11:41:32 AM by ace.cafe »
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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2008, 11:42:57 AM »
Ace makes a good point (as always). We do not think the new bike will turn us into a big motorcycle company. Royal Enfield and Classic Motorworks would be happy with a modest 10% growth - which is not much given the numbers we sell. What we do want to become is a small company that is known for selling very cool unique bikes that are reliable and very economical. We have the cool bike and economic thing down and have made big headway on reliability. We are hoping the new powertrain will put us over the top in that category. RE has enough confidence that they are going to double the warranty to two years on all UCE bikes. This alone is worth something.
  Some people will want a Sportster, some will want a Bonnie, some will want a Honda Rebel, we just hope some also want an RE.

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2008, 11:59:02 AM »
  Guess the market will be judged if iron headers start trading in for UCE bikes.  I will then sit patiently to buy the cast offs.

  As far as real competition for the RE I would go with the Bonnie myself, or any other parallel twin in the 500-800 cc range.  Really is hard to figure an exact match for  an RE there aren't any real 500cc thumpers to compare too.  The H - D is alitle out of size range I guess and really no better as a cruiser than a RE.  Basically a bike for average size riders and under..so if you are XX moose size like me they are very short and not nearly long enough.  Had a K model years ago..my RE has more room than that did..and that frame was longer than the current 1200 Sporty.  Will.
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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2008, 12:17:15 PM »
The thought occurred to me that the UCE Bullet should hit the same sweet spot of performance, coolness and all round street-able fun as the wonderful old Yamaha SR500 did.

And, I reiterate, it really shouldn't have to be an expensive motorcyle. I note that the official US price for the Kawasaki KLR 650 single is 5,599 USD (no, I am not trying to make a direct comparison, just getting a ball park figure for a product of probably similar manufacturing cost).

The UCE Bullets I a have seen are 1000 percent prettier and I for one wouldn't touch the Kwaka with a barge pole if the UCE came in at that sort of price.
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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2008, 12:38:14 PM »
    HD dropped the lowest priced Sportster, the XL883 ("standard") for 2009, so the XL883L (Low) is now the cheapest HD. I think it was a mistake, because the XL883 had the standard suspension (not lowered) and had much better cornering clearance.They also dropped the XL1200R and the XL883R(a couple of years ago). The XL883C (Custom) has a standard fork, but lowered shocks, and forward controls. The forwards, I believe, also lessen cornering clearance. The Custom starts about $1000.000 more than the Low model.The Custom runs the larger gas tank-the low runs the smaller "peanut" tank. I think the standard XL883 was a pretty good buy, especially in the winter when many dealers dropped the freight and setup fees to move them out. Yet, in the midst of all that, I bought my 2007 iron Classic, and I'm still glad I got it when I did.
    That being said, I will own another Sportster fairly soon. Possibly a pre-2004 before they redesigned the frame (that's where the extra 50 pounds of weight came from starting in 2004). But, if I got a pre-2004, I would also be giving up the rubber mounted engine for the older "solid mount" setup. The other thing, besides the lighter weight, that the pre-2004s have, is the older "trap door" transmission. You don't have to split the cases to get the transmission out-you can remove a cover and pull the whole gear set out fairly quickly.Recently, at the HD dealership I work at, a tech had to completely tear down an engine on a newer Sportster to repair the trans problem it was having.

    Jon in Puyallup
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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2008, 01:50:23 PM »
... We have the cool bike and economic thing down and have made big headway on reliability. We are hoping the new powertrain will put us over the top in that category. RE has enough confidence that they are going to double the warranty to two years on all UCE bikes. This alone is worth something.
A 2-year warranty has been standard on most makes (including my NewOldStock Guzzi) for a few years, so it is good to see RE stepping up.

The thought occurred to me that the UCE Bullet should hit the same sweet spot of performance, coolness and all round street-able fun as the wonderful old Yamaha SR500 did.
I had the '78 SR500, the 1st year it came out.  I have mixed memories of it, mostly good, and would like to see Japan send over the current version, the SR400. 

...  Really is hard to figure an exact match for  an RE there aren't any real 500cc thumpers to compare too. 
Actually, the Buell Blast, funny as it looks, is a certifiable bonafide 500cc thumper, with over 30HP and a good reliability record (I had the '00 version, the first year of it).  If the rumor is true that it is going to be restyled, then there will be a little more competition for RE.  The current $4700 msrp is nothing to laugh at.  But there is NO MENTION of the Blast in the 2009 brochure!!  It's on the website, though, so draw your own conclusion.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 09:07:29 PM by prof_stack »

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2008, 06:51:07 PM »
For whatever reason the Blast has never sold very well. I looked in Harley annual report about 3 years ago and they made less of them that we sold RE's in the US. I always thought it was a pretty good bike.

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2008, 07:35:28 PM »
  Maybe H-D should redesign the 45 CI engine and put that out, I would be more inclined to get a "45" model myself.  Will.
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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2008, 07:49:58 PM »
There are a couple of reasons the Blast doesn't sell;
Try to find one.  Most Harley dealers won't carry a Buell in the first place, much less a Blast.
They're ugly as Death sucking a cracker.
Even the guy on Yahoo groups spends 60% of his time telling people waht a bag they are. 

Truthfully, the Bullet is similar to the Ural.  Both are under new/improved management and the product is improving.  But they are both a niche market, AND- they both have a fairly miserable reputaion to overcome.  I've been watching and researching for a long time. 

I'll be real curious to see a new Blast, though.
Run what ya brung

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2008, 09:11:59 PM »
There are a couple of reasons the Blast doesn't sell;
Try to find one.  Most Harley dealers won't carry a Buell in the first place, much less a Blast.  The HD guys who carry Buells around here can't get enough Blasts in stock.  There is a delay in shipping right now for some reason.

They're ugly as Death sucking a cracker.
You forgot the IMHO!   :D

Even the guy on Yahoo groups spends 60% of his time telling people waht a bag they are.
That would probably be Ralph R, who is a most interesting fellow.  And I'll leave it at that. 

I'll be real curious to see a new Blast, though.
Agreed.

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2008, 11:18:59 AM »
   We sell all the Blasts we get in with no problem. We have the other Buell models in stock, but I haven't seen any Blasts latley. I had test ridden a Blast some years ago when the Buell test fleet was at a dealer.I thought it was a good ride, and a nice thumper. I joined some Blast forums and have learned about some of the weak points (as any motorcycle has some of these). One interesting point. HD Sportsters and the non-1135 Buells all use the same oil pump drive gear. They have had problems with these gears coming apart, sometimes by around 20,000 miles. So they changed to an improved gear on all Sportsters and the big Buells-but did not make the change to this day on the Blasts.Maybe on the theory that Blast owners may not keep them that long, or put that kind of miles on them?? Other problems are breaking/loosening isolator bolts, way accelerated rear tire wear (often by 3000 miles), carb intake boot problems (sound familiar Bulletheads?), exhaust systems cracking, and some other minor things. Some don't seem to have these problems. Still a good bike. Belt drive, Hydraulic valve lifters (no adjustments needed), automatic choke (??), "painted" parts are easily and cheaply replaced. I like the looks of the Blast myself.

    Jon
Jon in Keaau, Hawaii

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2008, 12:05:55 PM »
Does anyone know haw the UCE will achieve the 70 mph cruise? Is it through higher rpms or a different gearing.

Personally I think the way to achieve that would be a 6 or 7 speed gearbox. I never met a 5 speed that I thought should be a six. Carrying the same split between gears and having  6 speed would make going 70 an easy task on an AVL.

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2008, 11:46:01 PM »
Does anyone know haw the UCE will achieve the 70 mph cruise? Is it through higher rpms or a different gearing.

Personally I think the way to achieve that would be a 6 or 7 speed gearbox. I never met a 5 speed that I thought should be a six. Carrying the same split between gears and having  6 speed would make going 70 an easy task on an AVL.
i assume it has to do with the greater efficiency that the EFI provides, and therefore is capable of higher horsepower. the top speed smells like around 90 about the same as a 250cc single cylinder Vespa, so even a modest boost in BHP and a reduction of moving parts can improve speed overall. remember BHP is usually measured at the source, so the tranny usually loses some power. there's more power going to the wheels now that there are fewer gears to lose energy over.

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2008, 11:52:32 PM »
My '77 Yamaha RD 250 twin would comfortably cruise at 70mph, all day long, so I don't see why a modern 500 single shouldn't manage the same.  About the same hp, less weight etc.  It would be nice if the iron Bullet could do it, but it was sixty odd year old design, after all.

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2008, 06:58:29 AM »
Well Doomed, horsepower or efficiency alone from EFI isn't going to get you more cruising speed considering it's going to have about the same rpm range. The bikes we have now with proper gearing and the torque available will get you to those speeds.

ace.cafe

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2008, 08:49:28 AM »
Ok, well I was going to hold back and spare you all from my technical diatribe, but I can't hold it back any longer! :D

It's basically a matter of thermal efficiency.
When faced with a certain load for a certain period of time, the stock older Bullet engine builds heat because it cannot get rid of it well enough. Even at loads well below what its peak hp and torque figures can handle, it reaches heat-soaking problems. That's why it can do 80 max, but only cruise 60mph for extended periods. It can be improved with the exhaust, airfilter, re-jet mods so that it is freed-up a bit, and that allows it to convert more wasted heat into power, so that's a benefit. But it has it's limits.

The gearing doesn't change this issue. It will heat soak at 65mph just as well with a 17T gear or a 19T gear. The rpms change, but the load from wind resistance doesn't. The taller gear will just require more throttle opening at the lower rpm it provides. The bike still needs to put out the same power to overcome the wind resistance at that speed, so if the rpms are lower on the curve, the throttle opening needs to be bigger. So you might be firing a few rpms less, but you're igniting more mixture with each firing so heat remains the same. The cheapest and easiest way to gain a few extra cruising mph is to lay down on the tank while you're riding. That cuts down the wind resistance load, and allows you a few more mph.

The thermal efficiency of the new UCE engine is better than the old Bullet, if in fact it will cruise for extended periods at higher speeds.. And looking at the size of that massive UCE cylinder head and the presence of more fins and a better oiling system, as well as optimized programming of the computerized ignition and fuel injection which work together via the ECU, and a more modern efficient combustion chamber, all add up to the strong possibility that it will be able to cruise at 70mph, where the older Bullet could not..
« Last Edit: December 02, 2008, 09:02:28 AM by ace.cafe »
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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2008, 11:09:33 AM »
 No doubt what Ace says is the logical answer. But I have an even deeper theory of the secret behind the extra speed of the motor. Have you noticed the louvering on the valance panel under the headlight! That's right, that little panel has been slowing us down all these years. Can you believe it? I know! I was shocked myself when I heard of this break through. Let's give it up to these masters of invention for redesigning the one part that will give us the ability to cruise all day at seventy. Hooray for the saviors. I am grateful today. 
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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2008, 08:04:43 PM »
Birdmove, I owned one of those 2004 Sportsters, and I thought it was great that Harley-Davidson relocated the increased weight of the bike lower in the bike's center-of-gravity.  In three years and 26,000 miles of riding, I never had the slightest complaint with that bike--I can only hope that my REwill perform that well.  I now ride a (much more expensive, in all ways)  96 cu. in. Street Bob FXDB, and although Big Twins are hyped as being the only "true" Harley-Davidsons, I would readily trade my Big Twin for a smaller, less expensive bike, hence my interest in Royal Enfields.  Sportsters are Cool, but a Royal Enfield could be even better!!
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 08:20:49 PM by RAKe »
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birdmove

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2008, 09:06:01 PM »
    Thanks, RAKe.I'm working on a deal as we speak to trade my 2005 KLR650 in on a Sportster. I work at an HD/Buell dealer, so I can theoretically get a pretty good deal on used bikes. I want another Sportster, so I went in on Monday (one of the few days it wasn't supposed to rain) and test rode two XLs. First was a 2007 XL883C (Custom), 1300 miles. So it had FI and the rubber mounted engine. The previous owner had removed the forward controls (which I don't like anyway) and put on mid controls. The bike felt great-very comfortable and natural to me. It ran very strong, and ran well even when started cold. Next up was a 2002 XL1200 (standard), 11,000 miles, so it had the solid mount engine and a carb. Interestingly, the previous owner had removed the mid controls, and installed forwards. This bike ran strong also, and carburated well.I was surprised that the 883 seemed to be about as fast as the 1200. I had heard the new FI Sportsers ran very strong. The salesman told me about what the price should be with my discount.unfortunetely, he didn't know the whole story. When the sales manager came back to work, I found out that the bike had about $1300.00 worth of repairs done to it, so my price went way up. Too bad, as I was going to jump on that bike at the first price I was told. I probably would have bought the 1200 if it still had the mid controls. I also hated the "buckhorn" handlebars, so would have had to replace those too.
    Anyway, I may end up buying a nice 2006 XL883 (standard) with 3000 miles. All stock except the seat. I'm trading in my 2005 KLR650. I'm keeping the Bullet, and my small dual sport bike, a 2007 Yamaha XT225 that gets 85-107 mpg.

    Take care, Jon
Jon in Keaau, Hawaii