Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.

[Eamon]

  You can get a Sportster for that money and like 'em or not, it's a LOT more bike. 

Ha ha!
Yep, it sure is!
About 200 pounds of dead lard more bike.
Perhaps a person could hang 4 50 pound sacks of sand on their Enfield, so they can feel more like a Harley.

Indeed!  The Sportster is the only Harley that has any appeal to me, but that extra weight and the too low for my taste riding position would mean that it would have to cost sonsiderable LESS than a Bullet for me to consider it.  I'm not knocking Sportsters - I just don't buy the notion that it's better just because it's bigger - it's just heavier in my book!

Eamon

[Kevin Mahoney]

ExiledCapenter - Nice to see you online, it has been awhile (unless I have just missed you). I think that most any bike is a good bike...for someone.

[Indiana Josh]

Personally, I'm very glad I bought my '08 Military iron engine at the time that I did, while they're still around, so that it could FORCE me to learn about bikes. And so far, it HAS been forcing me. I wanted a bike that I would love, that I could nurture, and that I could grow and learn from. It's been a great experience so far. Eventually, I think I'll be a very confident rider and "mechanic" and will feel comfortable poking around in the innards of most bikes.  This is what I want.


With that said, however, I also think that whenever (if ever) RE rolls out the Military model in the UCE, I will probably be trading mine in. I can't say I'm a 100% purist like others here, and I personally like the idea of having a bike that has more power and more reliability, and is capable of cruising highway speeds if I so choose (not sure that I will, though).

So overall, I'm glad I bought one of the true classics so that I could learn from it and have a little piece of RE "history" -- but I'm also excited about owning the next stage of RE evolution in the same Military model that I love so much.

[exiledcarper]

RE1, yes I've been tied up with other stuff lately. I thought it was about time to stir the pot a little though. Sportster or UCE? I think I would rather the new R.E.personally, but I think I made a valid point on the price point.  I do think that most would see the Harley as more bike for the money,if they are indeed similarily priced..  I do think the new Classic looks very nice,I hope the U.S. version looks like that, rather than a UCE powered Electra, as seen in Europe. I also think that many will be hoping you can retro fit a "sporty" exhaust,with suitable bark.Not sure how that would fit in with a factory set fuel injector?  Do you think that the new motor will be owner "tweakable", in other words,, will you be able to alter fuel mixture to suit a nice safe,LOUD exhaust system?

[prof_stack]

... I also think that many will be hoping you can retro fit a "sporty" exhaust,with suitable bark.Not sure how that would fit in with a factory set fuel injector?  Do you think that the new motor will be owner "tweakable", in other words,, will you be able to alter fuel mixture to suit a nice safe,LOUD exhaust system?

While there are govt. forces trying to restrict or prohibit aftermarket motorcycle exhausts, most fuel injection systems "learn" from the exhaust system installed and adjust optimal fuel/air accordingly.  I imagine the UCE will be similar.

I sat on a new 883 Low today at the overflowing HD/Buell dealer and was not all that impressed.  That 550# weight is low but still very evident.  The $6995 price tag is pretty low and I imagine the Sporty would hold its value better over the years than the new RE.

[ace.cafe]

Well, it's doubtless that some will prefer other bikes. I think that is to be expected, given the differences in consumer tastes.

But, RE only has to have a niche. I don't think anyone is expecting RE to surpass Harley-Davidson sales volume. If the new RE can maintain a similar market penetration here in the US, as it has in the past, then that's a good start and it can work on building up from there.

The main thing is that the bike visually appeals to a certain demographic of sufficient numbers, and has reliability and performance within the reasonable expectations of the people who purchase them.
The people who buy them will obviously have liked the appearance, and as long as the bike gives them no real reason to start hating it, then it will be fine. The owners will then speak well of it to others, and the sales volume will start to increase as word gets out that it's a nice bike that costs less than many other choices, and offers some unique qualities.
That's all it really needs to do.

I'm sure that there are Bullet owners right here on this forum board who would have paid $2k extra to have 70mph highway cruising ability, some extra power and torque, and no reliability worries.

I personally feel that the Sportster is not in a category that competes with the RE, because of the differences involved.
The Bonneville may be a closer comparison, which might appeal to Brit bike buyers seeking choices, and the RE could face competition from the Bonnie for those purchasers who prefer more power and a twin.

I think that demonstrator rides are important. The Bullet is perceived as a very slow bike by uninitiated consumers, because the spec-sheet numbers for hp look very low. Assumptions are made that the Bullet is barely above a mo-ped, for that reason.
Once a person rides a Bullet, and sees that it is quite adequate for fun road riding, then the apprehensions of low power tend to evaporate.
The spec-sheets work against the Bullet severely. They don't tell the story.
It is up to the dealers to give the customers a  chance to ride on a Bullet, so they can see that it is a real motorcycle in the real world, and not a mo-ped.

If a person likes the appearance of a Bullet enough to come to a dealer to look at them, and gets to experience how fun they are to ride, then the spec-sheet info is a thing of the past, and the consumer makes the decsion based on real world performance instead of a preconceived notion..

[Kevin Mahoney]

Ace makes a good point (as always). We do not think the new bike will turn us into a big motorcycle company. Royal Enfield and Classic Motorworks would be happy with a modest 10% growth - which is not much given the numbers we sell. What we do want to become is a small company that is known for selling very cool unique bikes that are reliable and very economical. We have the cool bike and economic thing down and have made big headway on reliability. We are hoping the new powertrain will put us over the top in that category. RE has enough confidence that they are going to double the warranty to two years on all UCE bikes. This alone is worth something.
  Some people will want a Sportster, some will want a Bonnie, some will want a Honda Rebel, we just hope some also want an RE.

[1Blackwolf1]

  Guess the market will be judged if iron headers start trading in for UCE bikes.  I will then sit patiently to buy the cast offs.

  As far as real competition for the RE I would go with the Bonnie myself, or any other parallel twin in the 500-800 cc range.  Really is hard to figure an exact match for  an RE there aren't any real 500cc thumpers to compare too.  The H - D is alitle out of size range I guess and really no better as a cruiser than a RE.  Basically a bike for average size riders and under..so if you are XX moose size like me they are very short and not nearly long enough.  Had a K model years ago..my RE has more room than that did..and that frame was longer than the current 1200 Sporty.  Will.

[Chasfield]

The thought occurred to me that the UCE Bullet should hit the same sweet spot of performance, coolness and all round street-able fun as the wonderful old Yamaha SR500 did.

And, I reiterate, it really shouldn't have to be an expensive motorcyle. I note that the official US price for the Kawasaki KLR 650 single is 5,599 USD (no, I am not trying to make a direct comparison, just getting a ball park figure for a product of probably similar manufacturing cost).

The UCE Bullets I a have seen are 1000 percent prettier and I for one wouldn't touch the Kwaka with a barge pole if the UCE came in at that sort of price.

[birdmove]

    HD dropped the lowest priced Sportster, the XL883 ("standard") for 2009, so the XL883L (Low) is now the cheapest HD. I think it was a mistake, because the XL883 had the standard suspension (not lowered) and had much better cornering clearance.They also dropped the XL1200R and the XL883R(a couple of years ago). The XL883C (Custom) has a standard fork, but lowered shocks, and forward controls. The forwards, I believe, also lessen cornering clearance. The Custom starts about $1000.000 more than the Low model.The Custom runs the larger gas tank-the low runs the smaller "peanut" tank. I think the standard XL883 was a pretty good buy, especially in the winter when many dealers dropped the freight and setup fees to move them out. Yet, in the midst of all that, I bought my 2007 iron Classic, and I'm still glad I got it when I did.
    That being said, I will own another Sportster fairly soon. Possibly a pre-2004 before they redesigned the frame (that's where the extra 50 pounds of weight came from starting in 2004). But, if I got a pre-2004, I would also be giving up the rubber mounted engine for the older "solid mount" setup. The other thing, besides the lighter weight, that the pre-2004s have, is the older "trap door" transmission. You don't have to split the cases to get the transmission out-you can remove a cover and pull the whole gear set out fairly quickly.Recently, at the HD dealership I work at, a tech had to completely tear down an engine on a newer Sportster to repair the trans problem it was having.

    Jon in Puyallup

[prof_stack]

... We have the cool bike and economic thing down and have made big headway on reliability. We are hoping the new powertrain will put us over the top in that category. RE has enough confidence that they are going to double the warranty to two years on all UCE bikes. This alone is worth something.

A 2-year warranty has been standard on most makes (including my NewOldStock Guzzi) for a few years, so it is good to see RE stepping up.

The thought occurred to me that the UCE Bullet should hit the same sweet spot of performance, coolness and all round street-able fun as the wonderful old Yamaha SR500 did.

I had the '78 SR500, the 1st year it came out.  I have mixed memories of it, mostly good, and would like to see Japan send over the current version, the SR400. 

...  Really is hard to figure an exact match for  an RE there aren't any real 500cc thumpers to compare too. 

Actually, the Buell Blast, funny as it looks, is a certifiable bonafide 500cc thumper, with over 30HP and a good reliability record (I had the '00 version, the first year of it).  If the rumor is true that it is going to be restyled, then there will be a little more competition for RE.  The current $4700 msrp is nothing to laugh at.  But there is NO MENTION of the Blast in the 2009 brochure!!  It's on the website, though, so draw your own conclusion.

[Kevin Mahoney]

For whatever reason the Blast has never sold very well. I looked in Harley annual report about 3 years ago and they made less of them that we sold RE's in the US. I always thought it was a pretty good bike.

[1Blackwolf1]

  Maybe H-D should redesign the 45 CI engine and put that out, I would be more inclined to get a "45" model myself.  Will.

[UncleErnie]

There are a couple of reasons the Blast doesn't sell;
Try to find one.  Most Harley dealers won't carry a Buell in the first place, much less a Blast.
They're ugly as Death sucking a cracker.
Even the guy on Yahoo groups spends 60% of his time telling people waht a bag they are. 

Truthfully, the Bullet is similar to the Ural.  Both are under new/improved management and the product is improving.  But they are both a niche market, AND- they both have a fairly miserable reputaion to overcome.  I've been watching and researching for a long time. 

I'll be real curious to see a new Blast, though.

[prof_stack]

There are a couple of reasons the Blast doesn't sell;
Try to find one.  Most Harley dealers won't carry a Buell in the first place, much less a Blast.  The HD guys who carry Buells around here can't get enough Blasts in stock.  There is a delay in shipping right now for some reason.

They're ugly as Death sucking a cracker.
You forgot the IMHO!   

Even the guy on Yahoo groups spends 60% of his time telling people waht a bag they are.
That would probably be Ralph R, who is a most interesting fellow.  And I'll leave it at that. 

I'll be real curious to see a new Blast, though.
Agreed.