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Author Topic: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.  (Read 6934 times)

birdmove

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2008, 05:18:59 PM »
   We sell all the Blasts we get in with no problem. We have the other Buell models in stock, but I haven't seen any Blasts latley. I had test ridden a Blast some years ago when the Buell test fleet was at a dealer.I thought it was a good ride, and a nice thumper. I joined some Blast forums and have learned about some of the weak points (as any motorcycle has some of these). One interesting point. HD Sportsters and the non-1135 Buells all use the same oil pump drive gear. They have had problems with these gears coming apart, sometimes by around 20,000 miles. So they changed to an improved gear on all Sportsters and the big Buells-but did not make the change to this day on the Blasts.Maybe on the theory that Blast owners may not keep them that long, or put that kind of miles on them?? Other problems are breaking/loosening isolator bolts, way accelerated rear tire wear (often by 3000 miles), carb intake boot problems (sound familiar Bulletheads?), exhaust systems cracking, and some other minor things. Some don't seem to have these problems. Still a good bike. Belt drive, Hydraulic valve lifters (no adjustments needed), automatic choke (??), "painted" parts are easily and cheaply replaced. I like the looks of the Blast myself.

    Jon
Jon in Keaau, Hawaii

PhilJ

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2008, 06:05:55 PM »
Does anyone know haw the UCE will achieve the 70 mph cruise? Is it through higher rpms or a different gearing.

Personally I think the way to achieve that would be a 6 or 7 speed gearbox. I never met a 5 speed that I thought should be a six. Carrying the same split between gears and having  6 speed would make going 70 an easy task on an AVL.

doomed1

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2008, 05:46:01 AM »
Does anyone know haw the UCE will achieve the 70 mph cruise? Is it through higher rpms or a different gearing.

Personally I think the way to achieve that would be a 6 or 7 speed gearbox. I never met a 5 speed that I thought should be a six. Carrying the same split between gears and having  6 speed would make going 70 an easy task on an AVL.
i assume it has to do with the greater efficiency that the EFI provides, and therefore is capable of higher horsepower. the top speed smells like around 90 about the same as a 250cc single cylinder Vespa, so even a modest boost in BHP and a reduction of moving parts can improve speed overall. remember BHP is usually measured at the source, so the tranny usually loses some power. there's more power going to the wheels now that there are fewer gears to lose energy over.

exiledcarper

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2008, 05:52:32 AM »
My '77 Yamaha RD 250 twin would comfortably cruise at 70mph, all day long, so I don't see why a modern 500 single shouldn't manage the same.  About the same hp, less weight etc.  It would be nice if the iron Bullet could do it, but it was sixty odd year old design, after all.

PhilJ

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2008, 12:58:29 PM »
Well Doomed, horsepower or efficiency alone from EFI isn't going to get you more cruising speed considering it's going to have about the same rpm range. The bikes we have now with proper gearing and the torque available will get you to those speeds.

ace.cafe

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2008, 02:49:28 PM »
Ok, well I was going to hold back and spare you all from my technical diatribe, but I can't hold it back any longer! :D

It's basically a matter of thermal efficiency.
When faced with a certain load for a certain period of time, the stock older Bullet engine builds heat because it cannot get rid of it well enough. Even at loads well below what its peak hp and torque figures can handle, it reaches heat-soaking problems. That's why it can do 80 max, but only cruise 60mph for extended periods. It can be improved with the exhaust, airfilter, re-jet mods so that it is freed-up a bit, and that allows it to convert more wasted heat into power, so that's a benefit. But it has it's limits.

The gearing doesn't change this issue. It will heat soak at 65mph just as well with a 17T gear or a 19T gear. The rpms change, but the load from wind resistance doesn't. The taller gear will just require more throttle opening at the lower rpm it provides. The bike still needs to put out the same power to overcome the wind resistance at that speed, so if the rpms are lower on the curve, the throttle opening needs to be bigger. So you might be firing a few rpms less, but you're igniting more mixture with each firing so heat remains the same. The cheapest and easiest way to gain a few extra cruising mph is to lay down on the tank while you're riding. That cuts down the wind resistance load, and allows you a few more mph.

The thermal efficiency of the new UCE engine is better than the old Bullet, if in fact it will cruise for extended periods at higher speeds.. And looking at the size of that massive UCE cylinder head and the presence of more fins and a better oiling system, as well as optimized programming of the computerized ignition and fuel injection which work together via the ECU, and a more modern efficient combustion chamber, all add up to the strong possibility that it will be able to cruise at 70mph, where the older Bullet could not..
« Last Edit: December 02, 2008, 03:02:28 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Blltrdr

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2008, 05:09:33 PM »
 No doubt what Ace says is the logical answer. But I have an even deeper theory of the secret behind the extra speed of the motor. Have you noticed the louvering on the valance panel under the headlight! That's right, that little panel has been slowing us down all these years. Can you believe it? I know! I was shocked myself when I heard of this break through. Let's give it up to these masters of invention for redesigning the one part that will give us the ability to cruise all day at seventy. Hooray for the saviors. I am grateful today. 
2003 Classic 500 5 spd
1992 Kawasaki ZG 1200 Voyager XII
1977 Yamaha XS 360-2D (Cafe Project)

RAKe

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2008, 02:04:43 AM »
Birdmove, I owned one of those 2004 Sportsters, and I thought it was great that Harley-Davidson relocated the increased weight of the bike lower in the bike's center-of-gravity.  In three years and 26,000 miles of riding, I never had the slightest complaint with that bike--I can only hope that my REwill perform that well.  I now ride a (much more expensive, in all ways)  96 cu. in. Street Bob FXDB, and although Big Twins are hyped as being the only "true" Harley-Davidsons, I would readily trade my Big Twin for a smaller, less expensive bike, hence my interest in Royal Enfields.  Sportsters are Cool, but a Royal Enfield could be even better!!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 02:20:49 AM by RAKe »
196? Triumph 500 (basket case), 1968 BSA 650 (needed work), 1976 Triumph T140V 750 (ran well), 2004 Harley-Davidson XL883C, 2007 Harley-Davidson FXDB

Waiting to order 2012 Royal Enfield Bullet Deluxe

birdmove

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Re: Just Got a Call from my Dealer about Price.
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2008, 03:06:01 AM »
    Thanks, RAKe.I'm working on a deal as we speak to trade my 2005 KLR650 in on a Sportster. I work at an HD/Buell dealer, so I can theoretically get a pretty good deal on used bikes. I want another Sportster, so I went in on Monday (one of the few days it wasn't supposed to rain) and test rode two XLs. First was a 2007 XL883C (Custom), 1300 miles. So it had FI and the rubber mounted engine. The previous owner had removed the forward controls (which I don't like anyway) and put on mid controls. The bike felt great-very comfortable and natural to me. It ran very strong, and ran well even when started cold. Next up was a 2002 XL1200 (standard), 11,000 miles, so it had the solid mount engine and a carb. Interestingly, the previous owner had removed the mid controls, and installed forwards. This bike ran strong also, and carburated well.I was surprised that the 883 seemed to be about as fast as the 1200. I had heard the new FI Sportsers ran very strong. The salesman told me about what the price should be with my discount.unfortunetely, he didn't know the whole story. When the sales manager came back to work, I found out that the bike had about $1300.00 worth of repairs done to it, so my price went way up. Too bad, as I was going to jump on that bike at the first price I was told. I probably would have bought the 1200 if it still had the mid controls. I also hated the "buckhorn" handlebars, so would have had to replace those too.
    Anyway, I may end up buying a nice 2006 XL883 (standard) with 3000 miles. All stock except the seat. I'm trading in my 2005 KLR650. I'm keeping the Bullet, and my small dual sport bike, a 2007 Yamaha XT225 that gets 85-107 mpg.

    Take care, Jon
Jon in Keaau, Hawaii