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Author Topic: difference in looks  (Read 17064 times)

Monty

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difference in looks
« on: December 08, 2008, 01:45:32 AM »
Hello all you Royal Enfield owners.  I have been looking at purchasing a Royal Enfield for some time, I was first drawn to them because of there looks.  How much different will these new bikes be from the "traditional" bikes. 

ace.cafe

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2008, 03:27:04 AM »
This is the upcoming new 2009 Royal Enfield Classic 500 with new UCE engine



Traditional Royal Enfield Bullet 500 with old iron-barrel engine and optional solo seat




Royal Enfield Electra X with AVL Lean Burn Engine and dual seat
« Last Edit: December 08, 2008, 03:49:18 AM by ace.cafe »
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Cabo Cruz

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2008, 03:39:21 AM »
This is the upcoming new 2009 Royal Enfield Classic 500

Ace, does the image choice indicate you're leaning toward the red bike?  I am; but under the condition of making the call after I see this color up close and personal in the coming year!
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

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ace.cafe

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2008, 03:51:44 AM »
This is the upcoming new 2009 Royal Enfield Classic 500

Ace, does the image choice indicate you're leaning toward the red bike?  I am; but under the condition of making the call after I see this color up close and personal in the coming year!

Juan,
I like the red one just fine, but my top preference is the black one.
I just grabbed the first pictures that I found which were all about the same size, for easy comparison on the post.
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Monty

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2008, 04:30:06 AM »
ace.cafe thanks for the picture side by side.  to my untrained eye there dose not seem to be much difference between two.  I know the engine is different but other than that thy look the same to me.  Do you know if the new bike will have a dual seat?  Thanks for your help.  Monty

Bullet Bill

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2008, 05:29:57 AM »
This one's under the UCE pricing thread too, but I'll shorten the trip for you.  Looks like the C-5 model will have a solo seat standard, along with a pillion (maybe sold separately?).
There's something that doesn't make sense... let's go and poke it with a stick.

ace.cafe

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2008, 02:46:00 PM »
ace.cafe thanks for the picture side by side.  to my untrained eye there dose not seem to be much difference between two.  I know the engine is different but other than that thy look the same to me.  Do you know if the new bike will have a dual seat?  Thanks for your help.  Monty

There are many changes in the new UCE Bullet, but many of them are subtle.
There was a desire to maintain the vintage look, in the likeness of the Bullet for heritage purposes.
Of course, the UCE models have the new engine and electronic fuel injection(EFI)
All UCE models will have the disc brake, like the Electra X has.
The UCE models have the drive chain on the right side of the bike, instead of the traditional left side.
The UCE bikes have a longer swing-arm, and 18" wheels. Older Bullets had 19" wheels.
 Also, the new UCE classic seems to lack a kickstarter, which is a bone of contention among the traditionalists.

The UCE "G5" model, which is similar to a Deluxe Electra, will have a dual seat like this.




And the optional pillion seat on the UCE Classic will look like the one shown on the black bike in the 3rd photo of the 2nd posting on this thread link.
http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,2680.0.html.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2008, 03:14:43 PM by ace.cafe »
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Blltrdr

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2008, 07:05:09 AM »
Ace, that pillion is something to be desired. NOT! What is that a sleeping bag roll? There's a dark place in the woodshed for that log! I think you would need a two up seat to bolt on when you need it and the solo when you don't. What say you?
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chumma7

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2008, 08:45:13 AM »
ACE Fireball 001

ace.cafe

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2008, 02:01:16 PM »
Ace, that pillion is something to be desired. NOT! What is that a sleeping bag roll? There's a dark place in the woodshed for that log! I think you would need a two up seat to bolt on when you need it and the solo when you don't. What say you?

Heh-heh. Yeah, it's not the pinnacle of pillion seat appearance.
I think it's a little tall, and needs some curving to match the fender line, and could use some vinyl that doesn't permanently wrinkle when you sit on it. For some reason, all the Enfield seats get these flat spots and wrinkles where your legs go, that never go away. So when you get off the bike, the seats look terrible.. Much more so than other seats that I've noticed. Gosh, the early Indian Bullet dual-seat was terrible in that respect. The modern Electra dual seat is better, though.

However, I do think a pillion can be good looking when it's done right. I think a well-done combination of solo-seat and pillion looks better than a dual-seat on a Bullet.
I've never really liked any of the Indian-Enfield dual seats, although the Electra/Sixty-5 type dual seat is probably the best of the bunch, and I could live with that one.

I think the best of all is solo seat only, and that's what I have, but I don't have any passengers to carry.

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Cabo Cruz

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2008, 05:34:12 PM »
It's a solo seat for me, too!  I took 110 lbs. off the bike by replacing the dual seat.
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2008, 09:46:19 PM »
It's a solo seat for me, too!  I took 110 lbs. off the bike by replacing the dual seat.
Funny.  That would be 5 pounds for the seat and 105 pounds for your "sweetie", right?

Cabo Cruz

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2008, 11:21:53 PM »
Prof_stack, you got it right!  Are you a Mathematics professor?
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

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Papa Juan

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2008, 03:09:31 AM »
Prof_stack, you got it right!  Are you a Mathematics professor?

A prof of sorts, teaching high school math along with a season of boys soccer coaching at a Jesuit HS.  Been doing it for a long time.  The kids keep me young. 

I steal their energy by giving them long homework assignments to channel it back to me.   ::)

Cabo Cruz

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2008, 03:22:15 AM »
Prof, thanks for the response -- I had a hunch about the Mathematics angle.  In my B.C. (Before Castro) days, I went to a Jesuit school (K-BS) in Cuba -- Colegio de Dolores.  I am sure you know that the Jesuits are the Delta Force of Catholic education.

I concur with you regarding the energy an old timer -- like me -- can receive from the young.  My wife and I have three grandsons -- ages 12, 8 and 6.  We are also involved with their schools... it's real neat stuff. 
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

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Bullet Bill

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2008, 04:32:14 AM »
Am I the only one who thinks that the new engine looks a little... I dunno... bulbous?  Ugly?  At least by comparison with the classic and AVL version, anyhow.
I know that it's supposed to be much more reliable, faster, etc., but I can't help but feel a little disappointed in the new Enfields' overall appearance as a result of the engine's shape and size, and that goes for both versions of the UCE.

Meh, I'm nitpicking again.  I just wish I could find a bike with the looks of an AVL or classic Enfield and the performance of this newer version, but you can't have everything.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 04:33:55 AM by Bullet Bill »
There's something that doesn't make sense... let's go and poke it with a stick.

prof_stack

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2008, 06:24:39 AM »
Oh, I think you'll come to like the shape of the new motor.  Beauty IS in the eye of the beholder and for me the new motor looks great, and I also like the iron and the AVL.

ace.cafe

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2008, 03:07:59 PM »
The looks of the new motor is growing on me.
I didn't like it at first, but now I'm starting to get an appreciation for it.

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hutch

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2008, 04:31:50 PM »
The looks of the new motor is growing on me.
I didn't like it at first, but now I'm starting to get an appreciation for it.


I have to agree with you ace. At first the motor looked like the Suzuki Savage motor in a beautiful British frame. The only thing I still dislike is the 19" rear fender with an 18" rear tire. All that "air" around the tire just looks mismatched. Like I said before, it looks like a 4 wheel drive truck with a lift kit running car tires. I don't think that will ever grow on me. 18" rear fender please!!!!    Scroll right to see what I mean about the back fender / tire size. Hutch 


« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 04:55:27 PM by hutch »
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Chasfield

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2008, 05:20:23 PM »
Yeah, that 19 inch fender looks way off with the bike on its stand, and even with the suspension compressed a bit it would not look too good. Even a generic, alloy 18 inch one would look a lot better but you don't want to have to take a brand new bike to bits.
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Cabo Cruz

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2008, 05:26:06 PM »
Thumbs up for the looks of the Unit Construction Engine!

Thumbs down -- big time -- for the looks of the rear fender!
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

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bob bezin

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2008, 06:10:39 PM »
maybe you could just get a 19 inch wheel and put it on.
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The Garbone

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2008, 06:42:29 PM »
I'm thinking G-5..  I assume 19" wheels are standard on that model  and KS as a bonus. 
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Land Surveyor

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2008, 10:08:08 PM »
Hello, Hutch.

Wish you hadn't mentioned that rear fender.  Didn't notice it before but now it's going to bug me.

The new engine.  Am I wrong or wasn't there something about making it reminiscent of the old "big head" engines?  In any case, it looks fine to me.

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2008, 11:26:09 PM »
maybe its a trend.. my bonneville has the same look with a `17" rear tire (19 in front)
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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2008, 01:32:44 AM »
Hutch, damn good point about wheel size.  But I am sure these Indian manufacturers are beginning to understand the dog-eat-dog and pass-or-fail nature of capitalism, and they will soon respond--and consumers will benefit accordingly.  God Bless America!!
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Kevin Mahoney

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2008, 04:39:05 AM »
If you look at a current Bullet directly from the side you will see a big mismatch between the 19inch wheel and rear fender. It has been like this for over 50 years. I have attached two pictures which show this clearly. You can see it more of less depending upon which angle you look at the bike.
  The new bike Bullet Classic C-5 has 18 inch wheels and tyres front and rear. It you look at the bike directly from the side you can see that the curve of the fender matches the wheel and tyre curvature better. If you see if from and angle it can appear to less proportional.
  The G-5 which has 19 inch wheels front and rear will still appear a bit "awkward"

Bullet Bill

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2008, 04:49:32 AM »
All of that is technically true, but I think what most of the forum-goers here are saying is that the asymmetry of the old model actually looks good, hence the disappointment over the better-fitting (perhaps too precise/sterile) 18" wheels and tires.

Is that a confirmation on the G-5 having 19 inchers, though?  I've only ever seen official stats on the C-5 and the E-5, and clear profile pictures are as yet lacking.
There's something that doesn't make sense... let's go and poke it with a stick.

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2008, 05:04:35 AM »
G-5 and E-5 are 19 inch, C-5 is 18. The designers were driven nuts over the mismatch between the older Bullets fender and rear tyre.

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2008, 07:11:08 AM »
Hey, I've got an idea - hows about a 160 - 16 rear tire; that might just fill up the fender.  (Y'all can go ahead and start impeachment proceedings on me, now)   ;D
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hutch

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2008, 02:54:48 PM »
Kevin, I agree the older bikes did have a lot of tire "clearance' on the top, but the great big overhang on the new bikes at the back just really looks "awkward". When I was a kid my family didn't have much money, so I had to piece together pedal bikes from parts of all kinds. The 19" fender with 18" wheel looks like one of my piece together jobs. I used to get ragged on all the time until I just took the rear fender off. I swore I would never own a thing that looked pieced together again. Even the place where I took the picture from, said the over hang  of the fender at the rear was excessive and not attractive at all. If RE could go through all the money for a new engine, they could at least have spent a little more for a nice fitting rear fender for the 18" wheel. Espsecially when you consider the price increase.         Hutch
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 02:59:38 PM by hutch »
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Royal.Oilfield

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2008, 06:40:15 PM »
Isn't somebody aware that these bikes shown on the pics are unladen?!?
The fenders have to match the laden ride.
To get the desired look just mount them to the swing arm in a fixed position.

Johann

hutch

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2008, 10:12:07 PM »
Isn't somebody aware that these bikes shown on the pics are unladen?!?
The fenders have to match the laden ride.
To get the desired look just mount them to the swing arm in a fixed position.

Johann
Johann, I am talking about the overhang at the back of the fender, not the top. You could put an elephant on the seat and it would not change how far the fender is out away from the back of the tire. BIG gap from the tire being an 18" with a 19" fender. Check the picture I posted on the previous page. It seems you missed my point, while everyone else got what I was saying about the gap at the BACK of the fender. Even with the radial swing of the rear swingarm, that big gap will not disappear. It needs a 18" fender instaed of just slapping the old 19" on it. It's called asthetics.  Hutch
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 10:35:41 PM by hutch »
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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2008, 10:35:00 PM »
Johann, another way of putting is:

The pre-C5 bikes had a lot of air above the rear tire.  (This is fine with me, anyway.)

The C5 model seems (1) to have a lot of air behind the rear tire.

(1) We, at least I, have not seen a properly lit picture of the profile of the bike to categorically state that there is a lot of air behind the rear tire.
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2008, 10:39:45 PM »
I am focussing on the curvature of the fender in relation to the curvature of the tyre. Are others looking at something different?

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2008, 10:48:36 PM »
RE1, if you go to page 2, Reply #18 by Hutch you can see what some of us seem to think... that is, how far back the fender appears to be from the tire.
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

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hutch

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #36 on: December 12, 2008, 10:50:26 PM »
I am focussing on the curvature of the fender in relation to the curvature of the tyre. Are others looking at something different?
Kevin, We are taking about how the fender is WAY behind the tire at the back. If the chain was stretched and the tire all the way to the end of adjustment rearward, the fender is still too far behind the tire, from being made for the larger 19" tire and rim.  The gentleman that took that picture and I "borrowed" even said the rear of the fender was not a good match from using the 19" fender with a 18" rim and tire. There was way to much room between the back of the tire and the fender. The three pictures you posted show it also, but are poorly lit. The last close up of the rear of the bike is the best, and you can see what I mean, and what others have noticed. since I brought it to their attention.  Sorry!!!! The front tire and fender looks great because they match size for size. I know it would cost more for RE to make different rear fender supports and different rear fender, but at least it would look as good as the front does, aand not look like a mismatch of parts.  In 1958 RE made the Meteor Minor 500cc  with smaller size tires than the Super Meteor 500cc. They also made smaller fenders front and rear to match the smaller tires.     Hutch
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 11:15:39 PM by hutch »
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Royal.Oilfield

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2008, 11:38:59 PM »
I played a bit with brightness and contrast to get a better view of the tire/fender relation.



IMHO the propotions are o.k..

Cheers, Johann

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2008, 11:51:59 PM »
I played a bit with brightness and contrast to get a better view of the tire/fender relation.



IMHO the propotions are o.k..

Cheers, Johann

Well, Johann, I thank you for sharing this massaged image; you might very well be correct; I'm going to stop assuming that there might be a problem with the looks of the C5's rear; it might, after all, be just what the doctor ordered; and, cheers right back at you, Johann!
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2008, 01:16:12 AM »
Strange to say, I posted on this thread a day or two ago and now find the posting gone.

My points:

If one were to compare the new UCE engine with the engines of bikes of a retro nature of the past fifty years, it wouldn't seem that far out.  It isn't the same as the older R E engines, but it is fine in itself.

What bothers me a little is the scrunched up appearance of the new models.  Maybe the wheel size has something to do with it, but my feeling is that the older Classic types had a leaner, more thoroughbred look to them that I like better.  But that is just opinion...

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2008, 02:27:30 AM »
Strange to say, I posted on this thread a day or two ago and now find the posting gone.

My point

What bothers me a little is the scrunched up appearance of the new models.  Maybe the wheel size has something to do with it, but my feeling is that the older Classic types had a leaner, more thoroughbred look to them that I like better.  But that is just opinion...
I am glad someone else sees what I see. The scrunched look is from the small back tire mated to the large rear fender. It almost looks like the swingarm is to short for the rest of the frame, leaving the fender trailing way out behind the bike. A taller sidewall on the 18" tire would take care of it somewhat, but that would make it the same as having a 19' tire to begin with. I am quite sure when you see the bike in person, you will really be able to see how it just doesn't "fit" with the good looks of the rest of the bike.  Hutch
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ace.cafe

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2008, 02:46:39 AM »
From the way it looks to me, when somebody sits on the bike, it will look fine.
I think it just looks funny because it's unladen.

My old Bullet's fender is way over the wheel when it's up on the centerstand.
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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2008, 02:57:55 AM »
From the way it looks to me, when somebody sits on the bike, it will look fine.
I think it just looks funny because it's unladen.

My old Bullet's fender is way over the wheel when it's up on the centerstand.
Ace, we are talking space behind the tire, NOT above the tire.  Hutch
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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2008, 03:13:07 AM »
Kevin, I also have another question. Does the 19" wheeled bike and the 18" wheeled bike share the same front trans sprocket and rear sprocket. The reason I ask is a one inch shorter tire will travel close to 3"'s less , per revolution ,of the rear wheel down the road at the same RPM as the 19" wheel will. This means more RPM for the same speed as the 19" wheeled bike and less top speed on the 18" wheeled bike. I have built bikes and hot rods for years and have played with all kinds of gear ratio's and tire heights to get different performance. After 5 years of the people on the Suzuki Savage page saying it was impossible to change the bike from belt to chain drive, I had mine changed, in 2 months, by finding the sprockets off from other bikes to fit and all the ratios figured out for them for more accelleration, or more top end speed. I posted the how-to info on the Suzuki page and a lot of people changed to chain and love it. The 18" wheeled bike will need either a smaller rear, or larger front sprocket to perform the same as the 19" wheeled bike.   Hutch
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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2008, 03:21:20 AM »
 From the look of the pictures posted above it is very clear the tire fits the arc of the fender perfectly. The space behind the tire does seem somewhat excessive, but I think that would be far down on the list of reasons for buyers to nix the C5. Hutch's crusade against the look of this fender has gained little momentum and has a scrunch of merit, but still is a topic that is fun to talk about. I do think we need to see the stance of this bike with rider as someone mention previously.   

   
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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2008, 01:03:56 PM »
@Lawrence

Look at this 1959 RE Crusader Unit-Construction-Engine. Looks familiar, doesn't it?



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ace.cafe

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2008, 01:41:35 PM »
From the way it looks to me, when somebody sits on the bike, it will look fine.
I think it just looks funny because it's unladen.

My old Bullet's fender is way over the wheel when it's up on the centerstand.
Ace, we are talking space behind the tire, NOT above the tire.  Hutch

Yes, I understand.
However, remember the swing-arm arc.
This UCE has a longer swing-arm and  it is clearly hanging below level on the stand.
When that suspension gets compressed with a rider, the wheel is going to move rearward as well as upward on the swing-arm arc.
I'd say it's going to move at least a half-inch rearward during its travel, when it gets to the level position.
That might be enough to make the appearance seem more acceptable to your eye.
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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2008, 02:51:53 PM »
Ace, I mentioned the swingarm arc earlier, and that it would not take up the large gap, for the following reason. The diameter of the tire/ wheel assembly is the greatest at the point of where the axle goes through, measuring from front to rear(left to right). Once the fender moves down past that point, the measured distance of the tire/wheel front to rear, is shorter as the fender get s closer to the ground. Since the fender moves up and down, not right to left, the gap will get even BIGGER, when weight is added to the bike, because of the tire/wheel assembly getting narrower(front to rear) closer to the ground.Blltrdrr, As far as me not getting momentum was mentioned, how come several others see what I see? All I know is that my 2005 Bullet with full size tires has to big of a gap at the rear and buy going to the 18" wheel and still using the 19" fender,the gap will be even larger.You are correct....we need a profile picture with someone setting on the bike. I think the rear fender with all the gap at the rear will just not look correct, with an otherwise beautiful bike. Just my oppinion.  Hutch
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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2008, 05:08:34 PM »
 Hutch, just mixin' it up a and funnin' a little. Who uses fightin' words like scrunched anyway! This forum is all about getting your point across. Maybe Kevin has a side view picture from his trip with a rider on the C5 so your question can be answered.
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hutch

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Re: difference in looks
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2008, 06:47:31 PM »
Hutch, just mixin' it up a and funnin' a little. Who uses fightin' words like scrunched anyway! This forum is all about getting your point across. Maybe Kevin has a side view picture from his trip with a rider on the C5 so your question can be answered.
I know what you mean about funning or trying to get your point across. This is the best sight for not getting into arguements that I visit. Some people on other sights just get hostile when you try to "inform" them about something. The first picture of the blue Bullet that you had to scroll right on, was taken by a guy that was right there looking at the bike. He said the fender was way to large with the 18" rim and tire. When I looked at the picture, I could see what he meant. I wish we could get a profile of the bike with someone seated on it to see how it looks. A picture of the bike profile from the left side(shifter side) would be the best, because the muffler obstructs the view of the fender gap at the rear on the right side of the bike. While a bike with weight on it will get rid of some of the gap at the top, I think it will make the gap at the back even more obvious.  I am kind of a fanatic about things looking like they belong together because I have been customizing bikes for over 40 years. If it doesn't look right, I change it until it does look right. There isn't anything worse than something that looks "cobbled" together.  Pictures please, we need more pictures. Left side preferrably. If you want to get a full screen picture of the blue bike with 18" wheel and 19" fender, go to the Royal Enfield News Area on this sight......Pick the "New bikes at the NEC-UK " thread on the 1st page, 1st post ,Click on the link to go to the article and picture in full screen. The post is made by an ENGLISHMAN. I tend to believe the words of an Englishman, because they have been looking at Royal Enfields a lot longer than we Americans. As soon as I looked at the picture....it stuck out like a sore thumb.  Hutch
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 07:24:01 PM by hutch »
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