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Author Topic: UCE's Kick starter  (Read 5539 times)

LJRead

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UCE's Kick starter
« on: December 20, 2008, 05:10:46 PM »
Have been doing a bit of thinking, of putting two and two together. 

) Now first of all, Kevin has been remarkably silent on the issue of bikes showing up in Europe with no kick starter. Why the silence - I'm sure Kevin knows the facts, he is right there near the top of UCE development. 

2) Now we know from Kevin that the UCE uses a nearly identical gear train for the transmission, even though they are now contained within the engine itself, and not as a separate unit.

3) We also know that the most likely thing to go wrong with our present transmissions is the kick start pawl and spring assembly.

4) If the pawl or spring breaks in our transmissions, it is a quick fix.

5) But if the pawl or spring assembly breaks in the UCE wouldn't it mean splitting the casing to get at it?  A big job, I should think.

6) And if they broke, wouldn't there be pieces of pawl-spring and possibly other things as well flying around the crankcase doing further damage.

Ah, I see two and two added up to six - well that's my thoughts on it, any better ideas on why they would subtract a perfectly good kick start system from a highly retro bike?

LJ

Blltrdr

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2008, 05:21:06 PM »
 Examining pictures from an earlier post it seems that everything is contained behind the RT side cover. Shouldn't be that difficult to service. Blltrdr
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prof_stack

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2008, 06:28:52 PM »
Examining pictures from an earlier post it seems that everything is contained behind the RT side cover. Shouldn't be that difficult to service. Blltrdr
Let's hope you are correct and even more so that there will be NO problems with the UCE starter(s).

Royal.Oilfield

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2008, 07:16:57 PM »
@Lawrence

That's what Kevin said about the kickstart on the 'Luddites' posting:

I got confirmation from the factory today that the G-5 and E-5 (which we haven't talked about much, it is basically the Electra with an EFI engine) will come with a kickstarter as standard equipment. So to summarize, the C-5 will NOT have a kickstarter, the E5 and G-5 will have a kickstarter.

Cheers, Johann

LJRead

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2008, 06:27:25 AM »
Well guys, that answers some of the question, but still I would think there might be a problem of loose parts flying around in the event of pawl breakage, and then why one bike not having it, the other two having it?

Also, I would like to know how easy or difficult it will be to work on the transmission.  Just popping a side cover, maybe, but then again...

Royal.Oilfield

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2008, 12:52:50 PM »
We might have to wait for an explosive drawing to make it more than a guess.
But from the rear view of this cutaway motor you'll have to split the engine case itself after demounting the side covers to get access to the gear cluster.



Cheers, Johann


LJRead

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2008, 05:23:34 PM »
If that is true, and it seems likely, I would think that it represents a major disadvantage to the UCE over what we have.  Perhaps the pawl could be replaced, but recalling all the work people on this forum have done on their transmissions for one reason or another, means that such activities would be greatly hampered and likely need the help of a trained mechanic. Not in keeping with R Es tradition of DIY.

It becomes more like the Japanese bikes, extreme reliability, generally, but often a pain to work on.

I should probably keep quiet about such issues because it is unlikely that I would be able to afford one anyway with transport and duty costs.  I would be looking at a price of upwards of $14,000, possibly somewhat less if purchased from India, and anyway like what I have, but all aspects of R E interest me!

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2009, 08:29:51 PM »
What confuses me is why the Classic version has been produced without the kickstart - the bike looks great (besides  that gap between tyre & rear mudguard ::)
It just sort of looks a little naked without one!
Hopefully my local dealer should get one in in the next few months ;D
Cheers
Nick

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2009, 10:46:54 PM »
UK, please be sure to give us a full report after you test ride the new C5!!!
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

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UK-Classics

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2009, 10:33:13 PM »
UK, please be sure to give us a full report after you test ride the new C5!!!

No probs Cabo  - I know the dealer has the Electra EFI (UCE) as a demo.  I'll try & find out when they will be getting the C5 - I heard it was january but these things normally tend to slip. I was only looking for something 2nd hand at half the price of a new c5 - but the look of it has really tempted me  ::)
Cheers
Nick

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2009, 01:10:21 AM »
Examining pictures from an earlier post it seems that everything is contained behind the RT side cover. Shouldn't be that difficult to service. Blltrdr

It appears the pawl and spring are located behind the RH cover, and inside a second cover plate. I don't believe you will need to split the cases to change a pawl or spring. Pic1262 shows the inside of the split case, but the gears are covering the kickstart mechanism. Pic1269 is of the case inside the RH cover. The long shaft extending out of the plate with the four screws is the KS shaft.


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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2009, 01:42:05 PM »
I  posted this somewhere else but it seems relevant here.

I was informed that all  UCE bikes will come with a kickstart - it appears that there were problems with the kickstart castings on the first lot of bikes received in UK - they were therefore removed from many of these UCE  bikes. This production problem is currently being rectified.
Cheers
Nick

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2009, 04:51:36 PM »
I  posted this somewhere else but it seems relevant here.

I was informed that all  UCE bikes will come with a kickstart - it appears that there were problems with the kickstart castings on the first lot of bikes received in UK - they were therefore removed from many of these UCE  bikes. This production problem is currently being rectified.

I guess that means I'm gonna have to start saving up!

doomed1

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2009, 03:31:22 AM »
I  posted this somewhere else but it seems relevant here.

I was informed that all  UCE bikes will come with a kickstart - it appears that there were problems with the kickstart castings on the first lot of bikes received in UK - they were therefore removed from many of these UCE  bikes. This production problem is currently being rectified.
WAT WAT WAT!

Kevin! confirmation????

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2009, 05:06:36 AM »
Sorry boys and girls but here is a note from the person in charge of all exports at the factory:

The C5 will not come with a kick start. I donít think thereís any change planned.

UK-Classics

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 11:16:47 AM »
Sorry boys and girls but here is a note from the person in charge of all exports at the factory:

The C5 will not come with a kick start. I donít think thereís any change planned.

You are the man in the know (& seem to know a bit more than the some of the dealers over here ;)
Anyway - I didn't doubt your word but checked up with the importers (WS) today.

C5 due in UK dealerships mid Feb - no kick start on this bike as you quite rightly said
I think that's a mistake on a bike that looks like that - I think I will look for a 2nd hand electra now ::)
Cheers
Nick

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2009, 02:12:22 PM »
Even the Kawasaki W650 had the Kickstart!
I think its a mistake not to have it, 'spoiling the ship for a ha'path of tar'.
Best regards
Terry
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Kruiser

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2009, 02:50:32 PM »
Sorry boys and girls but here is a note from the person in charge of all exports at the factory:

The C5 will not come with a kick start. I donít think thereís any change planned.

But the G5 with the same engine will?   If so, that makes no sense at all.

ace.cafe

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2009, 03:12:48 PM »
Sorry boys and girls but here is a note from the person in charge of all exports at the factory:

The C5 will not come with a kick start. I donít think thereís any change planned.

But the G5 with the same engine will?   If so, that makes no sense at all.

The C5 has a different engine side cover on that side of the bike, than the G5 has.
The C5 cover is more rounded and smoother and has a different shape toward the rear of the cover, where the kick starter would be.
Perhaps this change of engine cover may have something to do with the deletion of the kick starter on that model.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2009, 05:08:01 PM »
Sorry boys and girls but here is a note from the person in charge of all exports at the factory:

The C5 will not come with a kick start. I donít think thereís any change planned.

But the G5 with the same engine will?   If so, that makes no sense at all.

The C5 has a different engine side cover on that side of the bike, than the G5 has.
The C5 cover is more rounded and smoother and has a different shape toward the rear of the cover, where the kick starter would be.
Perhaps this change of engine cover may have something to do with the deletion of the kick starter on that model.


Yeah - checking out the various pics around the web it starts to become a bit clearer. My first thought was the engine & covers etc were the same so kick start would exist on C5 as it does on the other EFIs - anyway they had to keep us on our toes I suppose. Don't think I'll be first in the queue for the C5 though - but may see if I can get a test ride with WS  :-\
Cheers
Nick

daywit

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2009, 01:48:03 PM »
Lots of very interesting and informative ideas.  Still can't understand why the G5 WILL have a kick start and the C5 will NOT.  If they both did NOT have the KS or they both DID have the KS I guess I wouldn't be so curious. 

Again, it just seems that if one model is gonna have the KS and one is NOT gonna have the KS then it would have made more sense (from a style point of view) for the C5 to have the KS.

Some of the above post seem to indicate that NOT having a KS is better because it is one less thing to potentially have problems with.  Am I understanding correctly?   

Blue Ridge Wheeltor

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2009, 02:00:20 PM »
Lots of very interesting and informative ideas.  Still can't understand why the G5 WILL have a kick start and the C5 will NOT.  If they both did NOT have the KS or they both DID have the KS I guess I wouldn't be so curious. 

Again, it just seems that if one model is gonna have the KS and one is NOT gonna have the KS then it would have made more sense (from a style point of view) for the C5 to have the KS.

Some of the above post seem to indicate that NOT having a KS is better because it is one less thing to potentially have problems with.  Am I understanding correctly?   



I read it just the opposite. because of past problems with the sprag, having an alternative to the ES is an advantage.
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Royal.Oilfield

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2009, 02:25:52 PM »
Lots of very interesting and informative ideas.  Still can't understand why the G5 WILL have a kick start and the C5 will NOT.  If they both did NOT have the KS or they both DID have the KS I guess I wouldn't be so curious. 

Again, it just seems that if one model is gonna have the KS and one is NOT gonna have the KS then it would have made more sense (from a style point of view) for the C5 to have the KS.

Some of the above post seem to indicate that NOT having a KS is better because it is one less thing to potentially have problems with.  Am I understanding correctly?   

You'll find Kevin's remarks about this in the following quote.

All of the importers were consulted about the design of both the E-5 and the C-5 over a period of three years. I am guessing that no motorcycle manufacturer has ever relied so heavily on importer input. They also spent quite a bit of time showing preliminary designs to dealers here and in Europe. (Under threat of death if they revealed anything, I think Vince was one of these).
We were all a bit surprised when they actually implemented most of the changes we requested. To be sure there is not universal agreement from importers, but when the final product was shown to us, the room went silent as we were all shocked at how well they had done.
  Vince is right about the kick starter. When I first opened CMW we only had Kick Start bikes. Sales resistance was very high. I could teach a 90 lb woman to kick start one in 2 minutes (and often did), but it was a huge problem. When we finally talked them into an ES I was nervous because many Old school guys predicted our demise. As you know sales went way up and even the Old School guys bought. Vince is also right that very few people (including dealers) have any idea of how to kickstart a big single and it appears very intimidating.
  When they built the UCE the original engine is the one you will see in the G-5. It has a KS. When the design of the C-5 came out, while it is the same engine the cases etc are quite different and much more stylized. The design team decided that the KS detracted from the look and the mechanical guys wanted it gone to show how much confidence they had in the new ES system. Right wrong or indifferent this is the unvarnished history of how we got here. We understand that some of you are hung up on the KS and understand why so I guess time will tell.

ace.cafe

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2009, 02:44:00 PM »
Lots of very interesting and informative ideas.  Still can't understand why the G5 WILL have a kick start and the C5 will NOT.  If they both did NOT have the KS or they both DID have the KS I guess I wouldn't be so curious. 

Again, it just seems that if one model is gonna have the KS and one is NOT gonna have the KS then it would have made more sense (from a style point of view) for the C5 to have the KS.

Some of the above post seem to indicate that NOT having a KS is better because it is one less thing to potentially have problems with.  Am I understanding correctly?   

I am changing my post, after I saw the photo of the C5 prototype engine, which did indeed have a kickstarter on it. Yes indeed.
So, why would they take it off then?

As an aside, I laugh every time I read that post about "why there's an electric start".
This is what our world is coming to? People can't even start motorcycles?
Oh, how the mighty have fallen!  GAKK!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 03:00:42 PM by ace.cafe »
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Royal.Oilfield

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2009, 02:58:29 PM »
...
It appears to me that when they changed the side cover of the engine to the more rounded and sculptured design of the C5, they deleted the kick starter.
...



The cutaway motor shown is the UCE 500cc pre series for the Classic.
Compare the smooth form of the Classic 500cc UCE motor to the edgie
UCE for the 500cc EFI Electra.



The UCE 500cc motor for the Classic was initially designed to have a kickstart
but as Kevin stated earlier the E-start has proven its reliability over several 100,000km
on the test bikes so they decided to not sell it with kickstart.

IMO designing a Retro bike and naming it 'Bullet Classic' but dismissing the kickstart
is kind of schizophrenically.

Ace,

in this pic you see the original designed C5 engine which had a kick start in its soft rounded side cover.

Regards

ace.cafe

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2009, 03:04:09 PM »
...
It appears to me that when they changed the side cover of the engine to the more rounded and sculptured design of the C5, they deleted the kick starter.
...



The cutaway motor shown is the UCE 500cc pre series for the Classic.
Compare the smooth form of the Classic 500cc UCE motor to the edgie
UCE for the 500cc EFI Electra.



The UCE 500cc motor for the Classic was initially designed to have a kickstart
but as Kevin stated earlier the E-start has proven its reliability over several 100,000km
on the test bikes so they decided to not sell it with kickstart.

IMO designing a Retro bike and naming it 'Bullet Classic' but dismissing the kickstart
is kind of schizophrenically.

Ace,

in this pic you see the original designed C5 engine which had a kick start in its soft rounded side cover.

Regards


Yes, I was editing my post as you posted this, after I viewed that picture on the other thread that you posted on.

I'm trying to fight back the rant that is wanting to force its way through  my fingers and into the keyboard!

« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 03:14:15 PM by ace.cafe »
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Royal.Oilfield

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2009, 03:18:36 PM »
...
As an aside, I laugh every time I read that post about "why there's an electric start".
This is what our world is coming to? People can't even start motorcycles?
Oh, how the mighty have fallen!  GAKK!

Ace,

I agree to you absolutely. If somebody wants to own and drive an old Brit Cycle he/she wants it original with all of its features as for example that Kick Start.

If they don't want the real feel of it then why bother buying a fully automated water cooled  characterless japanese yoghurt cup?!

Kind regards

Cabo Cruz

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2009, 03:21:01 PM »
Well, Brothers, let not your hearts be troubled... my vision and my prediction go as follows:

The C5 will have a proper KS in the not too distant future!
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

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The Garbone

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2009, 03:30:54 PM »
It would be a nice kit for CMW to develop...
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Royal.Oilfield

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2009, 03:44:28 PM »
It would be a nice kit for CMW to develop...

Hi The Garbone,

if you look at the pic below one might guess that these encircled parts will be left out of the production engine which as a result will avert the development of an aftermarket kit.

Kind regards

If all this yellow encircled parts >shaft, pillar, ratchet and bore< as one might guess, will be left out of the Classic motor you even won't be able to retrofit a kickstart! 
Oops.............bad mistake... >:(




Cabo Cruz

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2009, 03:50:16 PM »
The market will eventually drive RE to include the KS on the C5.
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

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Kruiser

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2009, 03:53:51 PM »
The market will eventually drive RE to include the KS on the C5.

I was kinda thinking the same thing myself.  I would love to have one as soon as possible, but
it might not be a bad idea to wait a year and see what the buzz is...

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2009, 03:56:29 PM »

I'm trying to fight back the rant that is wanting to force its way through  my fingers and into the keyboard!

You know, in many ways this just makes me all the more happy that I have the old  pre-2002 Bullet, and don't have to tolerate any future "improvements" out of Chennai for my bike.


Come on Ace, let it flow. Tell us how you really feel!

As far as the UCE goes in a way I was glad to see the old iron barrel go. The things that were done to it to get it to comply to all the various laws and wishes of the owners were killing it.  None of which were improvements just butcher jobs to get the old design to do what it wasn't designed to do.
The old kick only motors were the only ones that were true to form. The ES and Electra were sad reminders of the times we live in. To me it would have been best to end it before that happened.

I hope that the UCE can continue to follow the rich history that REM had with the old iron motor and thrive making it for as many years as it did the iron bbl.
A motor doing what it was designed to do, correctly!

As far as the kick start goes my CB 750 was the first bike I had with ES. It also had a kick-starter but no one ever used it. If it wouldn't have had it I don't think it would have hurt sales at all. With that field excited alternator on the bike it's not like you were going to kick start it with a dead battery anyway.

One advantage to not having a kicker on the C5 is the opportunity for running larger countershaft sprockets is there. On the G5 the kicker shaft goes into the case just below the countershaft sprocket limiting it to maybe an 18 (from 17).
I haven't seen the C5 motor yet but without the kicker shaft there I don't see why one couldn't go up to 19 or 20 before the chain hit the front side of the case.

No my old timers are not for sale.
My early 99 has and will be my all-time favorite bike.
I hope the G5 will insure me not wearing my 99 out doing basic transportation tasks.
CJ

  
 


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ace.cafe

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2009, 04:16:08 PM »

I'm trying to fight back the rant that is wanting to force its way through  my fingers and into the keyboard!

You know, in many ways this just makes me all the more happy that I have the old  pre-2002 Bullet, and don't have to tolerate any future "improvements" out of Chennai for my bike.


Come on Ace, let it flow. Tell us how you really feel!

As far as the UCE goes in a way I was glad to see the old iron barrel go. The things that were done to it to get it to comply to all the various laws and wishes of the owners were killing it.  None of which were improvements just butcher jobs to get the old design to do what it wasn't designed to do.
The old kick only motors were the only ones that were true to form. The ES and Electra were sad reminders of the times we live in. To me it would have been best to end it before that happened.

I hope that the UCE can continue to follow the rich history that REM had with the old iron motor and thrive making it for as many years as it did the iron bbl.
A motor doing what it was designed to do, correctly!

As far as the kick start goes my CB 750 was the first bike I had with ES. It also had a kick-starter but no one ever used it. If it wouldn't have had it I don't think it would have hurt sales at all. With that field excited alternator on the bike it's not like you were going to kick start it with a dead battery anyway.

One advantage to not having a kicker on the C5 is the opportunity for running larger countershaft sprockets is there. On the G5 the kicker shaft goes into the case just below the countershaft sprocket limiting it to maybe an 18 (from 17).
I haven't seen the C5 motor yet but without the kicker shaft there I don't see why one couldn't go up to 19 or 20 before the chain hit the front side of the case.

No my old timers are not for sale.
My early 99 has and will be my all-time favorite bike.
I hope the G5 will insure me not wearing my 99 out doing basic transportation tasks.
CJ

  

I totally agree.

And mine is a 2000, but has 99 date on the engine.
I won't be parting with it, either.

I'm perfectly fine with the UCE idea, and it seems to be a good engine.
I don't oppose it at all.
I may even get one some day.
One of my dreams was to get 200 UCE engines, and work out a deal with Metisse to make 200 Rickman frames for the UCE, and resurrect the Rickman Enfield, in the form of the new UCE Bullet engine. Would meet emission requirements, and be a real cool limited production item.
The same production number as the old Rickman Interceptors.
Maybe if I get rich, I could do it.


« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 04:18:01 PM by ace.cafe »
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The Garbone

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2009, 04:39:40 PM »
It would be a nice kit for CMW to develop...

Hi The Garbone,

if you look at the pic below one might guess that these encircled parts will be left out of the production engine which as a result will avert the development of an aftermarket kit.

Kind regards

If all this yellow encircled parts >shaft, pillar, ratchet and bore< as one might guess, will be left out of the Classic motor you even won't be able to retrofit a kickstart! 
Oops.............bad mistake... >:(




I imagine the pillar is still in the casting as the KS bikes will still be using it.   The ratchet, Shaft and Bore might need to be added.  I bet if you pulled the RH cover off the thing it might have a cap over the bore and you could just get a custom RH cover or a G5 RH cover.   Probably have to split the thing to do the ratchet and shaft though...  In theory....

Hhmmm,  who has one these sitting around that can check under that cover????
Gary
57' RE Crusader 250
67' Ford Mustang
74' Catalina 27 "Knot a Clew"
95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
07 RE 5spd HaCK

* all actions described in this post are fictional *

Alaroyal

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2009, 04:53:00 PM »
" No my old timers are not for sale.
My early 99 has and will be my all-time favorite bike.
I hope the G5 will insure me not wearing my 99 out doing basic transportation tasks."
CJ


Interesting comment, CJ.  I think the new engine will be just what is predicted, something that no one will have to worry about "wearing out".

In the meantime, if I buy a G5 and if it has a kick lever, great, but if it's as poorly designed as the one on my Electra, I'll take it off so it doesn't get in the way of my leg and store it on the bike somewhere.  If it doesn't have a kicker, that's also great.

Electricity has been around a lot longer than motorcycles, so I'm glad this is ONE issue that ain't even on my radar screen, and I'm just glad my Ford V10 truck doesn't have a hand crank like a model T, or chain drive like some other old trucks.

As far as selling the bikes, the lack of a kicker is not gonna hurt sales, because old heads will still buy one, they will just gripe and hold onto the old bikes, and the new crowd, which is the future, won't be in the least bit concerned that there's no kicker.

What will hurt RE, at least in America, is what was one of the nails in the original Brit bikes' coffins in America a long time ago (not the only one, to be sure, but one of them) and that was its inability to put sufficient product into the hands of the consumer.  

If you want to sell here, people need to be able to see the product, and there needs to be plenty of dealers. It's a business axiom; insufficient product to sell, at least insufficient  relative to ambitious expansion plans, means big trouble in little China.

Based on the sales growth RE wants in the US, as stated in the Cycle World article, RE needs to do more than just make a good machine.  

The Studebaker Avanti was a wonderful car, since we're talking classics, but it didn't make it, when Corvette did, because they just couldn't get put enough of them into the hands of consumers like Chevy was able to do with the Corvette.

I'm NOT anti-anything or anybody, and I would love to see a vastly improved presence of RE on the streets in America, not only the UCE, but also a v twin RE, and a big side by side twin.  I suppose I'm just personally disappointed concerning supply and product availabity problems that I've had, and I fear that RE's investment in the UCE could be threatened if it doesn't place product on showroom floors, and plenty of it.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 04:56:02 PM by Alaroyal »
Dave

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2009, 05:11:42 PM »

Hhmmm,  who has one these sitting around that can check under that cover????


Hi The Garbone,

remember... unfortunately not one C5 delivered yet.

Kind regards

Blue Ridge Wheeltor

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2009, 05:54:19 PM »
"If you want to sell here, people need to be able to see the product, and there needs to be plenty of dealers. It's a business axiom; insufficient product to sell, at least insufficient  relative to ambitious expansion plans, means big trouble in little China."


Ural's problem, and Moto Guzzi too. Loyal owners, little product.
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2006 Ural Patrol
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1977 HD XLCR
1971 Triumph Bonneville

t120rbullet

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2009, 06:02:09 PM »

In the meantime, if I buy a G5 and if it has a kick lever, great, but if it's as poorly designed as the one on my Electra, I'll take it off so it doesn't get in the way of my leg and store it on the bike somewhere.  If it doesn't have a kicker, that's also great.


The sprag itself is the same one used on the Electra.
It is not mounted on an idler pinion in between the crank and the starter motor. It's mounted right on the motor sprocket now with some good size roller bearings supporting it.
The UCE also has a auto (centrifugal) decompressor on it that will bump the exhaust valve open when the motor is going less than 600 RPM (I think that's the rpm he said). That eliminates back firing when starting or shutting down the cause of so many heartaches on the ES and Electra.  

The kicker, the way it's made it has to swing way out to miss the muffler so when it's folded up it's pretty much out of the way.

The rest is uncharted territory for now!
CJ
1999 Enfield 500 Black Deluxe "Silver"
2012 Concours 14 (no name yet)
2013 Royal Star Venture S  "Jelly Roll"

r80rt

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2009, 09:26:08 PM »
I have a hip and knee that are worn out from years of kickstarting motorcycles, one XLCH was particularly tough on it, If the C5 had a kicker I'd never use it and see it as useless weight.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 09:39:06 PM by r80rt »
On the eighth day God created the C5, and it was better looking than anything on the planet.
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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2009, 11:05:07 PM »
" No my old timers are not for sale.
My early 99 has and will be my all-time favorite bike.
I hope the G5 will insure me not wearing my 99 out doing basic transportation tasks."
CJ


What will hurt RE, at least in America, is what was one of the nails in the original Brit bikes' coffins in America a long time ago (not the only one, to be sure, but one of them) and that was its inability to put sufficient product into the hands of the consumer.  

If you want to sell here, people need to be able to see the product, and there needs to be plenty of dealers. It's a business axiom; insufficient product to sell, at least insufficient  relative to ambitious expansion plans, means big trouble in little China.

Based on the sales growth RE wants in the US, as stated in the Cycle World article, RE needs to do more than just make a good machine.  

I'm NOT anti-anything or anybody, and I would love to see a vastly improved presence of RE on the streets in America, not only the UCE, but also a v twin RE, and a big side by side twin.  I suppose I'm just personally disappointed concerning supply and product availabity problems that I've had, and I fear that RE's investment in the UCE could be threatened if it doesn't place product on showroom floors, and plenty of it.

I agree - there is a great deal of sense in the comments comming from this thread.
Being over the other side of the pond I think the same comments comming from you guys applies over here.

The new bikes were shown at the bike show (UK) some 6 months ago - the flagship of course the C5 - the C5 arrived in UK dealers this week - about 3 months later than advertised. The bikes that have arrived are only in black. They are a great looking bike but having looking closely at the C5 bike the frame welds are not pretty (yes I know they are done by a human) but certainly don't eqaute to the pictures available on the net)

It's a little frustrating - I want this company to suceed & I think they have a great product - I just think they have had a shakey start & could do with a little more marketing/QC input from the 'export markets'

Anyway, the only way is up for RE  ;D







Cheers
Nick

r80rt

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2009, 04:17:28 PM »
If I'm counting correctly, only 25 of the 94 dealers are trained to and able to sell the UCE engined bikes, that will make them hard to find and harder to sell I think. I hope all the dealers get trained, I'd hate to see them close after they sell out the old stock.
On the eighth day God created the C5, and it was better looking than anything on the planet.
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Ice

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2009, 10:26:55 PM »
Advertisement and instant availability.

The car companies sell some powerful illusions.
"Power and Control" is one ad line.
 Driving through the city or mountains or desert at break neck speeds with the road to yourself with out consequence is another (notice the fine print adage at the bottom of the screen " professional driver on closed course")

 Most Americans want whats perceived as popular and we want it now.

 When R.E. UCE Bullets show up in films, television programs and magazines being ridden by the hero or the "we all wish we were him/her" character that will  go a long way to increase interest.
 
 When the consumer can ride one out of the dealership 30 minutes after walking in that will go a long way towards satisfying demand.

 When that same consumer is still talking about how reliable his or her UCE is two years later and how outstanding the customer service is, the neighbor may stop in at the dealership.


 Harley Davidson's advertising campaigns have done an outstanding job convincing America that their product is for the wealthy retired Doctor or Lawyer and not for youthful America, the work-a-day Joe , the college student or the Outlaw Biker. They Have cashed in in the process. The H.O.G. Contributes to a sense of belonging that helps maintain the cash flow that helps finance those glossy emotional advertisements.

 Any one remember the Honda Ad campaigns of the early 70's with all the fresh smiling faces and  the slogan "You meet the nicest people on a Honda" ?
 They distanced their product line from all negative perceptions and portrayed it as the product of innocent fun for every one.

 They referred to their product as a Honda,seldom as "Motorcycle"

 Manufacturing production was upped to satisfy demand.
You could walk in and ride out, no waiting.
Honda sales took off as a result. The rest is history.

 For R.E. to be a more successful marque it will require a committed coordinated strategic effort by the company tuned to the particular national/regional markets served.

Just my two cents worth,,,,,,,,,,,,


I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.