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Author Topic: UCE's Kick starter  (Read 5150 times)

UK-Classics

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 11:16:47 AM »
Sorry boys and girls but here is a note from the person in charge of all exports at the factory:

The C5 will not come with a kick start. I donít think thereís any change planned.

You are the man in the know (& seem to know a bit more than the some of the dealers over here ;)
Anyway - I didn't doubt your word but checked up with the importers (WS) today.

C5 due in UK dealerships mid Feb - no kick start on this bike as you quite rightly said
I think that's a mistake on a bike that looks like that - I think I will look for a 2nd hand electra now ::)
Cheers
Nick

Bath Bullet

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2009, 02:12:22 PM »
Even the Kawasaki W650 had the Kickstart!
I think its a mistake not to have it, 'spoiling the ship for a ha'path of tar'.
Best regards
Terry
BITING THE BULLET:  2001 500 CLASSIC living in Sunny Bat, Somerset
Also 2008 TRIUMPH BONNEVILLE 865 EFI

Kruiser

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2009, 02:50:32 PM »
Sorry boys and girls but here is a note from the person in charge of all exports at the factory:

The C5 will not come with a kick start. I donít think thereís any change planned.

But the G5 with the same engine will?   If so, that makes no sense at all.

ace.cafe

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2009, 03:12:48 PM »
Sorry boys and girls but here is a note from the person in charge of all exports at the factory:

The C5 will not come with a kick start. I donít think thereís any change planned.

But the G5 with the same engine will?   If so, that makes no sense at all.

The C5 has a different engine side cover on that side of the bike, than the G5 has.
The C5 cover is more rounded and smoother and has a different shape toward the rear of the cover, where the kick starter would be.
Perhaps this change of engine cover may have something to do with the deletion of the kick starter on that model.
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head Conversion. Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available anywhere.  AVL mods available. UCE kit coming.

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UK-Classics

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2009, 05:08:01 PM »
Sorry boys and girls but here is a note from the person in charge of all exports at the factory:

The C5 will not come with a kick start. I donít think thereís any change planned.

But the G5 with the same engine will?   If so, that makes no sense at all.

The C5 has a different engine side cover on that side of the bike, than the G5 has.
The C5 cover is more rounded and smoother and has a different shape toward the rear of the cover, where the kick starter would be.
Perhaps this change of engine cover may have something to do with the deletion of the kick starter on that model.


Yeah - checking out the various pics around the web it starts to become a bit clearer. My first thought was the engine & covers etc were the same so kick start would exist on C5 as it does on the other EFIs - anyway they had to keep us on our toes I suppose. Don't think I'll be first in the queue for the C5 though - but may see if I can get a test ride with WS  :-\
Cheers
Nick

daywit

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2009, 01:48:03 PM »
Lots of very interesting and informative ideas.  Still can't understand why the G5 WILL have a kick start and the C5 will NOT.  If they both did NOT have the KS or they both DID have the KS I guess I wouldn't be so curious. 

Again, it just seems that if one model is gonna have the KS and one is NOT gonna have the KS then it would have made more sense (from a style point of view) for the C5 to have the KS.

Some of the above post seem to indicate that NOT having a KS is better because it is one less thing to potentially have problems with.  Am I understanding correctly?   

Blue Ridge Wheeltor

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2009, 02:00:20 PM »
Lots of very interesting and informative ideas.  Still can't understand why the G5 WILL have a kick start and the C5 will NOT.  If they both did NOT have the KS or they both DID have the KS I guess I wouldn't be so curious. 

Again, it just seems that if one model is gonna have the KS and one is NOT gonna have the KS then it would have made more sense (from a style point of view) for the C5 to have the KS.

Some of the above post seem to indicate that NOT having a KS is better because it is one less thing to potentially have problems with.  Am I understanding correctly?   



I read it just the opposite. because of past problems with the sprag, having an alternative to the ES is an advantage.
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Royal.Oilfield

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2009, 02:25:52 PM »
Lots of very interesting and informative ideas.  Still can't understand why the G5 WILL have a kick start and the C5 will NOT.  If they both did NOT have the KS or they both DID have the KS I guess I wouldn't be so curious. 

Again, it just seems that if one model is gonna have the KS and one is NOT gonna have the KS then it would have made more sense (from a style point of view) for the C5 to have the KS.

Some of the above post seem to indicate that NOT having a KS is better because it is one less thing to potentially have problems with.  Am I understanding correctly?   

You'll find Kevin's remarks about this in the following quote.

All of the importers were consulted about the design of both the E-5 and the C-5 over a period of three years. I am guessing that no motorcycle manufacturer has ever relied so heavily on importer input. They also spent quite a bit of time showing preliminary designs to dealers here and in Europe. (Under threat of death if they revealed anything, I think Vince was one of these).
We were all a bit surprised when they actually implemented most of the changes we requested. To be sure there is not universal agreement from importers, but when the final product was shown to us, the room went silent as we were all shocked at how well they had done.
  Vince is right about the kick starter. When I first opened CMW we only had Kick Start bikes. Sales resistance was very high. I could teach a 90 lb woman to kick start one in 2 minutes (and often did), but it was a huge problem. When we finally talked them into an ES I was nervous because many Old school guys predicted our demise. As you know sales went way up and even the Old School guys bought. Vince is also right that very few people (including dealers) have any idea of how to kickstart a big single and it appears very intimidating.
  When they built the UCE the original engine is the one you will see in the G-5. It has a KS. When the design of the C-5 came out, while it is the same engine the cases etc are quite different and much more stylized. The design team decided that the KS detracted from the look and the mechanical guys wanted it gone to show how much confidence they had in the new ES system. Right wrong or indifferent this is the unvarnished history of how we got here. We understand that some of you are hung up on the KS and understand why so I guess time will tell.

ace.cafe

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2009, 02:44:00 PM »
Lots of very interesting and informative ideas.  Still can't understand why the G5 WILL have a kick start and the C5 will NOT.  If they both did NOT have the KS or they both DID have the KS I guess I wouldn't be so curious. 

Again, it just seems that if one model is gonna have the KS and one is NOT gonna have the KS then it would have made more sense (from a style point of view) for the C5 to have the KS.

Some of the above post seem to indicate that NOT having a KS is better because it is one less thing to potentially have problems with.  Am I understanding correctly?   

I am changing my post, after I saw the photo of the C5 prototype engine, which did indeed have a kickstarter on it. Yes indeed.
So, why would they take it off then?

As an aside, I laugh every time I read that post about "why there's an electric start".
This is what our world is coming to? People can't even start motorcycles?
Oh, how the mighty have fallen!  GAKK!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 03:00:42 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head Conversion. Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available anywhere.  AVL mods available. UCE kit coming.

Please visit my new website:
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Royal.Oilfield

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2009, 02:58:29 PM »
...
It appears to me that when they changed the side cover of the engine to the more rounded and sculptured design of the C5, they deleted the kick starter.
...



The cutaway motor shown is the UCE 500cc pre series for the Classic.
Compare the smooth form of the Classic 500cc UCE motor to the edgie
UCE for the 500cc EFI Electra.



The UCE 500cc motor for the Classic was initially designed to have a kickstart
but as Kevin stated earlier the E-start has proven its reliability over several 100,000km
on the test bikes so they decided to not sell it with kickstart.

IMO designing a Retro bike and naming it 'Bullet Classic' but dismissing the kickstart
is kind of schizophrenically.

Ace,

in this pic you see the original designed C5 engine which had a kick start in its soft rounded side cover.

Regards

ace.cafe

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2009, 03:04:09 PM »
...
It appears to me that when they changed the side cover of the engine to the more rounded and sculptured design of the C5, they deleted the kick starter.
...



The cutaway motor shown is the UCE 500cc pre series for the Classic.
Compare the smooth form of the Classic 500cc UCE motor to the edgie
UCE for the 500cc EFI Electra.



The UCE 500cc motor for the Classic was initially designed to have a kickstart
but as Kevin stated earlier the E-start has proven its reliability over several 100,000km
on the test bikes so they decided to not sell it with kickstart.

IMO designing a Retro bike and naming it 'Bullet Classic' but dismissing the kickstart
is kind of schizophrenically.

Ace,

in this pic you see the original designed C5 engine which had a kick start in its soft rounded side cover.

Regards


Yes, I was editing my post as you posted this, after I viewed that picture on the other thread that you posted on.

I'm trying to fight back the rant that is wanting to force its way through  my fingers and into the keyboard!

« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 03:14:15 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head Conversion. Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available anywhere.  AVL mods available. UCE kit coming.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

Royal.Oilfield

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2009, 03:18:36 PM »
...
As an aside, I laugh every time I read that post about "why there's an electric start".
This is what our world is coming to? People can't even start motorcycles?
Oh, how the mighty have fallen!  GAKK!

Ace,

I agree to you absolutely. If somebody wants to own and drive an old Brit Cycle he/she wants it original with all of its features as for example that Kick Start.

If they don't want the real feel of it then why bother buying a fully automated water cooled  characterless japanese yoghurt cup?!

Kind regards

Cabo Cruz

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2009, 03:21:01 PM »
Well, Brothers, let not your hearts be troubled... my vision and my prediction go as follows:

The C5 will have a proper KS in the not too distant future!
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

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The Garbone

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2009, 03:30:54 PM »
It would be a nice kit for CMW to develop...
Gary
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* all actions described in this post are fictional *

Royal.Oilfield

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2009, 03:44:28 PM »
It would be a nice kit for CMW to develop...

Hi The Garbone,

if you look at the pic below one might guess that these encircled parts will be left out of the production engine which as a result will avert the development of an aftermarket kit.

Kind regards

If all this yellow encircled parts >shaft, pillar, ratchet and bore< as one might guess, will be left out of the Classic motor you even won't be able to retrofit a kickstart! 
Oops.............bad mistake... >:(