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Author Topic: UCE's Kick starter  (Read 5682 times)

Cabo Cruz

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2009, 03:50:16 PM »
The market will eventually drive RE to include the KS on the C5.
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

REA:    Member No. 119
BIKE:   2004 Royal Enfield Sixty-5
NAME: Perla

Kruiser

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2009, 03:53:51 PM »
The market will eventually drive RE to include the KS on the C5.

I was kinda thinking the same thing myself.  I would love to have one as soon as possible, but
it might not be a bad idea to wait a year and see what the buzz is...

t120rbullet

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2009, 03:56:29 PM »

I'm trying to fight back the rant that is wanting to force its way through  my fingers and into the keyboard!

You know, in many ways this just makes me all the more happy that I have the old  pre-2002 Bullet, and don't have to tolerate any future "improvements" out of Chennai for my bike.


Come on Ace, let it flow. Tell us how you really feel!

As far as the UCE goes in a way I was glad to see the old iron barrel go. The things that were done to it to get it to comply to all the various laws and wishes of the owners were killing it.  None of which were improvements just butcher jobs to get the old design to do what it wasn't designed to do.
The old kick only motors were the only ones that were true to form. The ES and Electra were sad reminders of the times we live in. To me it would have been best to end it before that happened.

I hope that the UCE can continue to follow the rich history that REM had with the old iron motor and thrive making it for as many years as it did the iron bbl.
A motor doing what it was designed to do, correctly!

As far as the kick start goes my CB 750 was the first bike I had with ES. It also had a kick-starter but no one ever used it. If it wouldn't have had it I don't think it would have hurt sales at all. With that field excited alternator on the bike it's not like you were going to kick start it with a dead battery anyway.

One advantage to not having a kicker on the C5 is the opportunity for running larger countershaft sprockets is there. On the G5 the kicker shaft goes into the case just below the countershaft sprocket limiting it to maybe an 18 (from 17).
I haven't seen the C5 motor yet but without the kicker shaft there I don't see why one couldn't go up to 19 or 20 before the chain hit the front side of the case.

No my old timers are not for sale.
My early 99 has and will be my all-time favorite bike.
I hope the G5 will insure me not wearing my 99 out doing basic transportation tasks.
CJ

  
 


1999 Enfield 500 Black Deluxe "Silver"
2012 Concours 14 (no name yet)
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ace.cafe

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2009, 04:16:08 PM »

I'm trying to fight back the rant that is wanting to force its way through  my fingers and into the keyboard!

You know, in many ways this just makes me all the more happy that I have the old  pre-2002 Bullet, and don't have to tolerate any future "improvements" out of Chennai for my bike.


Come on Ace, let it flow. Tell us how you really feel!

As far as the UCE goes in a way I was glad to see the old iron barrel go. The things that were done to it to get it to comply to all the various laws and wishes of the owners were killing it.  None of which were improvements just butcher jobs to get the old design to do what it wasn't designed to do.
The old kick only motors were the only ones that were true to form. The ES and Electra were sad reminders of the times we live in. To me it would have been best to end it before that happened.

I hope that the UCE can continue to follow the rich history that REM had with the old iron motor and thrive making it for as many years as it did the iron bbl.
A motor doing what it was designed to do, correctly!

As far as the kick start goes my CB 750 was the first bike I had with ES. It also had a kick-starter but no one ever used it. If it wouldn't have had it I don't think it would have hurt sales at all. With that field excited alternator on the bike it's not like you were going to kick start it with a dead battery anyway.

One advantage to not having a kicker on the C5 is the opportunity for running larger countershaft sprockets is there. On the G5 the kicker shaft goes into the case just below the countershaft sprocket limiting it to maybe an 18 (from 17).
I haven't seen the C5 motor yet but without the kicker shaft there I don't see why one couldn't go up to 19 or 20 before the chain hit the front side of the case.

No my old timers are not for sale.
My early 99 has and will be my all-time favorite bike.
I hope the G5 will insure me not wearing my 99 out doing basic transportation tasks.
CJ

  

I totally agree.

And mine is a 2000, but has 99 date on the engine.
I won't be parting with it, either.

I'm perfectly fine with the UCE idea, and it seems to be a good engine.
I don't oppose it at all.
I may even get one some day.
One of my dreams was to get 200 UCE engines, and work out a deal with Metisse to make 200 Rickman frames for the UCE, and resurrect the Rickman Enfield, in the form of the new UCE Bullet engine. Would meet emission requirements, and be a real cool limited production item.
The same production number as the old Rickman Interceptors.
Maybe if I get rich, I could do it.


« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 04:18:01 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  Ace GP Hi-Lift Roller Rocker Head . Pistons, cams, etc. Highest performance Bullet engine mods available .  AVL mods. Redditch 700/750 Twin mods. UCE kit soon.

Please visit my new website:
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The Garbone

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2009, 04:39:40 PM »
It would be a nice kit for CMW to develop...

Hi The Garbone,

if you look at the pic below one might guess that these encircled parts will be left out of the production engine which as a result will avert the development of an aftermarket kit.

Kind regards

If all this yellow encircled parts >shaft, pillar, ratchet and bore< as one might guess, will be left out of the Classic motor you even won't be able to retrofit a kickstart! 
Oops.............bad mistake... >:(




I imagine the pillar is still in the casting as the KS bikes will still be using it.   The ratchet, Shaft and Bore might need to be added.  I bet if you pulled the RH cover off the thing it might have a cap over the bore and you could just get a custom RH cover or a G5 RH cover.   Probably have to split the thing to do the ratchet and shaft though...  In theory....

Hhmmm,  who has one these sitting around that can check under that cover????
Gary
57' RE Crusader 250
67' Ford Mustang
74' Catalina 27 "Knot a Clew"
95 RE Ace Clubman 535
01 HD 1200 Custom
07 RE 5spd HaCK

* all actions described in this post are fictional *

Alaroyal

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2009, 04:53:00 PM »
" No my old timers are not for sale.
My early 99 has and will be my all-time favorite bike.
I hope the G5 will insure me not wearing my 99 out doing basic transportation tasks."
CJ


Interesting comment, CJ.  I think the new engine will be just what is predicted, something that no one will have to worry about "wearing out".

In the meantime, if I buy a G5 and if it has a kick lever, great, but if it's as poorly designed as the one on my Electra, I'll take it off so it doesn't get in the way of my leg and store it on the bike somewhere.  If it doesn't have a kicker, that's also great.

Electricity has been around a lot longer than motorcycles, so I'm glad this is ONE issue that ain't even on my radar screen, and I'm just glad my Ford V10 truck doesn't have a hand crank like a model T, or chain drive like some other old trucks.

As far as selling the bikes, the lack of a kicker is not gonna hurt sales, because old heads will still buy one, they will just gripe and hold onto the old bikes, and the new crowd, which is the future, won't be in the least bit concerned that there's no kicker.

What will hurt RE, at least in America, is what was one of the nails in the original Brit bikes' coffins in America a long time ago (not the only one, to be sure, but one of them) and that was its inability to put sufficient product into the hands of the consumer.  

If you want to sell here, people need to be able to see the product, and there needs to be plenty of dealers. It's a business axiom; insufficient product to sell, at least insufficient  relative to ambitious expansion plans, means big trouble in little China.

Based on the sales growth RE wants in the US, as stated in the Cycle World article, RE needs to do more than just make a good machine.  

The Studebaker Avanti was a wonderful car, since we're talking classics, but it didn't make it, when Corvette did, because they just couldn't get put enough of them into the hands of consumers like Chevy was able to do with the Corvette.

I'm NOT anti-anything or anybody, and I would love to see a vastly improved presence of RE on the streets in America, not only the UCE, but also a v twin RE, and a big side by side twin.  I suppose I'm just personally disappointed concerning supply and product availabity problems that I've had, and I fear that RE's investment in the UCE could be threatened if it doesn't place product on showroom floors, and plenty of it.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 04:56:02 PM by Alaroyal »
Dave

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2009, 05:11:42 PM »

Hhmmm,  who has one these sitting around that can check under that cover????


Hi The Garbone,

remember... unfortunately not one C5 delivered yet.

Kind regards

Blue Ridge Wheeltor

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2009, 05:54:19 PM »
"If you want to sell here, people need to be able to see the product, and there needs to be plenty of dealers. It's a business axiom; insufficient product to sell, at least insufficient  relative to ambitious expansion plans, means big trouble in little China."


Ural's problem, and Moto Guzzi too. Loyal owners, little product.
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t120rbullet

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2009, 06:02:09 PM »

In the meantime, if I buy a G5 and if it has a kick lever, great, but if it's as poorly designed as the one on my Electra, I'll take it off so it doesn't get in the way of my leg and store it on the bike somewhere.  If it doesn't have a kicker, that's also great.


The sprag itself is the same one used on the Electra.
It is not mounted on an idler pinion in between the crank and the starter motor. It's mounted right on the motor sprocket now with some good size roller bearings supporting it.
The UCE also has a auto (centrifugal) decompressor on it that will bump the exhaust valve open when the motor is going less than 600 RPM (I think that's the rpm he said). That eliminates back firing when starting or shutting down the cause of so many heartaches on the ES and Electra.  

The kicker, the way it's made it has to swing way out to miss the muffler so when it's folded up it's pretty much out of the way.

The rest is uncharted territory for now!
CJ
1999 Enfield 500 Black Deluxe "Silver"
2012 Concours 14 (no name yet)
2013 Royal Star Venture S  "Jelly Roll"

r80rt

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2009, 09:26:08 PM »
I have a hip and knee that are worn out from years of kickstarting motorcycles, one XLCH was particularly tough on it, If the C5 had a kicker I'd never use it and see it as useless weight.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 09:39:06 PM by r80rt »
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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2009, 11:05:07 PM »
" No my old timers are not for sale.
My early 99 has and will be my all-time favorite bike.
I hope the G5 will insure me not wearing my 99 out doing basic transportation tasks."
CJ


What will hurt RE, at least in America, is what was one of the nails in the original Brit bikes' coffins in America a long time ago (not the only one, to be sure, but one of them) and that was its inability to put sufficient product into the hands of the consumer.  

If you want to sell here, people need to be able to see the product, and there needs to be plenty of dealers. It's a business axiom; insufficient product to sell, at least insufficient  relative to ambitious expansion plans, means big trouble in little China.

Based on the sales growth RE wants in the US, as stated in the Cycle World article, RE needs to do more than just make a good machine.  

I'm NOT anti-anything or anybody, and I would love to see a vastly improved presence of RE on the streets in America, not only the UCE, but also a v twin RE, and a big side by side twin.  I suppose I'm just personally disappointed concerning supply and product availabity problems that I've had, and I fear that RE's investment in the UCE could be threatened if it doesn't place product on showroom floors, and plenty of it.

I agree - there is a great deal of sense in the comments comming from this thread.
Being over the other side of the pond I think the same comments comming from you guys applies over here.

The new bikes were shown at the bike show (UK) some 6 months ago - the flagship of course the C5 - the C5 arrived in UK dealers this week - about 3 months later than advertised. The bikes that have arrived are only in black. They are a great looking bike but having looking closely at the C5 bike the frame welds are not pretty (yes I know they are done by a human) but certainly don't eqaute to the pictures available on the net)

It's a little frustrating - I want this company to suceed & I think they have a great product - I just think they have had a shakey start & could do with a little more marketing/QC input from the 'export markets'

Anyway, the only way is up for RE  ;D







Cheers
Nick

r80rt

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2009, 04:17:28 PM »
If I'm counting correctly, only 25 of the 94 dealers are trained to and able to sell the UCE engined bikes, that will make them hard to find and harder to sell I think. I hope all the dealers get trained, I'd hate to see them close after they sell out the old stock.
On the eighth day God created the C5, and it was better looking than anything on the planet.
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Ice

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Re: UCE's Kick starter
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2009, 10:26:55 PM »
Advertisement and instant availability.

The car companies sell some powerful illusions.
"Power and Control" is one ad line.
 Driving through the city or mountains or desert at break neck speeds with the road to yourself with out consequence is another (notice the fine print adage at the bottom of the screen " professional driver on closed course")

 Most Americans want whats perceived as popular and we want it now.

 When R.E. UCE Bullets show up in films, television programs and magazines being ridden by the hero or the "we all wish we were him/her" character that will  go a long way to increase interest.
 
 When the consumer can ride one out of the dealership 30 minutes after walking in that will go a long way towards satisfying demand.

 When that same consumer is still talking about how reliable his or her UCE is two years later and how outstanding the customer service is, the neighbor may stop in at the dealership.


 Harley Davidson's advertising campaigns have done an outstanding job convincing America that their product is for the wealthy retired Doctor or Lawyer and not for youthful America, the work-a-day Joe , the college student or the Outlaw Biker. They Have cashed in in the process. The H.O.G. Contributes to a sense of belonging that helps maintain the cash flow that helps finance those glossy emotional advertisements.

 Any one remember the Honda Ad campaigns of the early 70's with all the fresh smiling faces and  the slogan "You meet the nicest people on a Honda" ?
 They distanced their product line from all negative perceptions and portrayed it as the product of innocent fun for every one.

 They referred to their product as a Honda,seldom as "Motorcycle"

 Manufacturing production was upped to satisfy demand.
You could walk in and ride out, no waiting.
Honda sales took off as a result. The rest is history.

 For R.E. to be a more successful marque it will require a committed coordinated strategic effort by the company tuned to the particular national/regional markets served.

Just my two cents worth,,,,,,,,,,,,


I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military that takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.