The 612 conversion kit

[deejay]

who's done it? i can find little information or reviews about it.

[dewjantim]

Egli (a german firm, I think) makes a 612 screamer kit for the 500 RE. If you can read German, or have a translator, go to their website...... Dew.

[dewjantim]

Egli (a german firm, I think) makes a 612 screamer kit for the 500 RE. If you can read German, or have a translator, go to their website...... Dew.

Upon further investigation, Egli is a Swiss firm, not German.... sorry.....Dew.

[Kevin Mahoney]

The 612 kit is a good one, but is not for the faint of heart as it is pretty involved. You will need to split the cases, replace the crankshaft, do some machining (filing), check clearances between piston and valves, etc. If you are familiar with engine rebuilding (theory as well as having put together a 350 Chevy or minibike motor) you will be fine, but if you are a beginner we do not recommend it. You will find more details here: http://www.royalenfieldusa.com/performance-612cc-p-6568.html

[Peter]

I bought a used Bullet which needed a top end rebuild.
I did that because I like to have an excuse to spend money to get some go.
Call me cheap if you wish.
From a bang for the buck point of view, just change the exhaust system and keep the original carb.
Take the money you saved on the carb and get the alloy 535cc and 8.5:1 piston.
Lap the stock head to the new alloy barrel.
Then change the secondary drive sprocket one or two teeth up.
Now you got an engine with more torque and power.
You will have a very tractable cycle with less shifting required in town.
If you want to change the air filter for a less restrictive one, put a 3 or 4 inch radiator tube between new filter and carb.
Rejet as needed.
You may like the result, and it'll come in under $1000 with relatively little work involved.

Stay away from tuning for top power and speed because you will have to make it turn faster.
Higher RPM are expensive in the long run and mean a lot more time in the garage.

Big end goes? Now you have an excuse 


Peter

[deejay]

The 612 kit is a good one, but is not for the faint of heart as it is pretty involved. You will need to split the cases, replace the crankshaft, do some machining (filing), check clearances between piston and valves, etc. If you are familiar with engine rebuilding (theory as well as having put together a 350 Chevy or minibike motor) you will be fine, but if you are a beginner we do not recommend it. You will find more details here: http://www.royalenfieldusa.com/performance-612cc-p-6568.html

Yeah, if I buy it, it will be in a year or more... I just wanted to get some opinions. I suppose I would gain experience when I take the original 500 motor apart to fit the 612 kit. 

[Peter]

Good attitude.

But I'm afraid that the experience gained by taking the engine apart is limited to taking the engine apart.
Getting the engine together again and running is another experience altogether.

The nature of the beast is that you are going to run in a myriad of nagging little issues which you can't solve on your own if you haven't seriously worked on an engine before.
And nobody will want or be able to do the job for you.
So my advice is to take it step by step.
If you don't heed the advice, you need to be prepared to have your cycle down for a very long time.
And that's all there is to it, you won't be able to ride for a long long time.


Peter

 

[deejay]

Good attitude.

But I'm afraid that the experience gained by taking the engine apart is limited to taking the engine apart.
Getting the engine together again and running is another experience altogether.

The nature of the beast is that you are going to run in a myriad of nagging little issues which you can't solve on your own if you haven't seriously worked on an engine before.
And nobody will want or be able to do the job for you.
So my advice is to take it step by step.
If you don't heed the advice, you need to be prepared to have your cycle down for a very long time.
And that's all there is to it, you won't be able to ride for a long long time.


Peter

 

Maybe so, but for experience I was considering taking a course in motorcycle mechanics, there's a guy in my area who owns a used brit bike shop that teaches it. You basically follow him around the shop working on bikes (including your own) or help rebuild an engine if he has one that needs it. Could be a valuable course!

Anyway, thanks for the info, but I'm still not scared of that 612 kit 

[Peter]

That's the right way to get started.
Just remember one thing: A lot of mechanics will not appreciate any performance tuning efforts. Don't be disappointed if you don't get any encouragement from the people who teach you.
Take what you need from the course and completely disregard what they tell you about the problems with hopping something up a bit. You may not want to bring it up until the end of the course.
But listen carefully to anyone who has the unreasonable inclination.
In the end you will have to make your own decisions.
Performance tuning can be expensive but you can also tune with a budget.
Satisfaction and frustration guaranteed.

Peter

[justin_o_guy]

I wouldnt  walk off into my motorcycle engine as the first one I went thru. Maybe get a bike I dont even want, needing work, super cheap. Take it apart & put it back together. Practice. That is cheap & effective.Maybe get an old Honda 50 & rebuild it. You will not down your RE & when you are done, you will have a little bike you can sell.

[deejay]

As you know we sell many of these kits.

You do? I've only seen 1 person speak of the kit on the yahoo board. The only reviews I could find was on Brit message boards. All were very good though.

Anyway, I just went out for a spin on my bullet, and she's running so well it would be a shame to mess with her.

[CMW-Rhett]

I'm surprised there is not more buzz about the kit online, it really is pretty popular with the more ambitious modders. Deejay, if you decide to take it on, maybe you can share some photos and notes of your experience.

[deejay]

I'm surprised there is not more buzz about the kit online, it really is pretty popular with the more ambitious modders.

I don't doubt Kevin's word, just wish there were more reviews in the US. If I do the mod I will take lots of pics, and most likely video it too, so when I get stuck later I can go back and look at the footage.

I think we should start a separate forum that is exclusive to ideas for convincing wives that you NEED these parts for your bike.

[JLR]

I need to convince mine I NEED a bike in the first place. She thinks we should have a bigger house for our almost two-year old to run around in. unfortunatly I kinda agree...

[deejay]

I need to convince mine I NEED a bike in the first place. She thinks we should have a bigger house for our almost two-year old to run around in. unfortunatly I kinda agree...

The price of a used enfield isn't going to get you a bigger house, maybe new carpet or a paint job. I know what you mean about the little one though, we have a 1 year old and he's the main priority now. thank god I can pick up freelance work outside of my full time job to buy bike parts!

[CMW-Rhett]

I think we should start a separate forum that is exclusive to ideas for convincing wives that you NEED these parts for your bike.

  Maybe we could set up a mailing list for Royal Enfield wives!

[Robb]

Or, do what I did:  Buy the Enfield for your wife...  She likes it a lot better than the motorcycle lift and new tool chest that I got her for Christmas the year previous.

[Bullet500Dude]

    OMG..... Why 612 cc ?  THESE ARE ANTIQUATED DINASORS !  They go SLOW !  I've owned my 01 500 seance April 02, and she was absolutly wonderful to ride stock for over 28K miles crusing at most 55 mph ( but usually not over 40 to 45 mph).
  I've also had the pleasure of ridding and maintaining two other 05 65's owned by a couple of guys from India who live in my town, and they were also a pleasure to ride stock.
  Some modifications can be beneficial.  My first were Hitchcock's high volume oilpumps, the shift bushing kit from DRS, Classic's blieprinted cluch kit, 18 tooth countershaft sprocket, long header/short muffeler, rejetted carberator, premimum cables, and that made her so sweet to ride.
  But I just had to get STUPED, and start making performance modifications on her.  Oh yes, I just had to have the head worked over, 9 to 1 compression piston(JUNK), Amal 32mm MK2 carberator(JUNK), and cams.
  It's been a total nose bleed, and I regret ever messing with her.  The carberator has been a total pain in the butt getting dialed in, and needs constant attention.  Timming has been a pain, and luckily Classic came out with a stiffer advance spring whitch helped.  Finding gas can be a problem at times, and she WILL NOT run on anything but highest octain available with booster.  She gets hot ridding around town because of the high compression, and I live in Bakersfield, California where it get over 100F for months at a time.
  She was such a pleasure to ride and own before, and now I dread the thought of having to ride her.  Now I'm in the process of saving the money up to put her back to stock, and I can't enjoy her.  Leave them alone. Buy a Yamasaki or something bike if you wanna go fast.
 
                     Take CARE, be BAD ;-) and ride SAFE...................D.B.
 

[Peter]

Put a 2mm compression plate in and put your stock carb back on.
(Or did you have the work done at a shop and they kept the parts?)
That would be less than $20.
Alloy barrel would be nice, though.
None of what you are reporting is a REAL problem.

Peter

[JLR]

deejay---You have apoint about the money not covering the house. But I need to hold off until I get used to ahuge payment every month. Gotta love those kids tho 

Robb---Wife is not impressed with looks of the Enfield, but supports that I like it. Looks like a solo and pad will be the ticket eventually (gotta take the kids for a spin ya know)

Found myself eyeing the parts book my father-in-law brought back from a recent trip down in Oklahoma...brain started looking at the performance parts (must go faster it says). Haven't even ridden one yet, but I think I'll be fine with mostly stock anyway and enjoy that for awhile. I can tinker later in life.

[dave48]

 "OMG..... Why 612 cc ?  THESE ARE ANTIQUATED DINASORS !  They go SLOW ! "

Have to agree with 500Dude on this. Surely if one wants a FAST(ER) bike, then that is what one buys? Presumably Bullets (and most other bikes) are designed/built AS A WHOLE. The engine/drive train/frame/suspension/braking etc etc are compatable one with each other. Change one element of the equation....and the rest don't work as intended (or certainly not for long!).
They are slow by nature - and intention. 
A 125 RS Aprillia will surely blow any hopped up RE into the weeds - and be no more fragile!!

[dewjantim]

Hop it up!!!! Nothing like going fast on a slow bike.....Dew.

[deejay]

500Dude and dave48, i have to admit, this was my thinking originally, just leaving the 500 as is. But if you look closely at the 612 kit, and all thats included, you will see a vast amount of superior parts made in england. Such things as high quality main bearings may negate the effects of higher compression and speed on this old dinosaur. To me, it looks as if the kit was done right, and that is what sparked my interest. There are many good reviews of the kit "over the pond", with owners racking up the miles trouble-free.

Right now I don't need a faster bike, I had one a few years back and it never saw over 75mph. But when the day comes when I feel the need to go a little faster, gain a bit more power, you can surely bet I won't be trading in my Bullet for a honda or an aprilia. I'll be pulling her guts out and adding a proven kit, to make her suit me better. Thats all.

[RagMan]

A few years ago I would have spent time and money getting amazing advances of power in the Enfield. But after every professionally built race spec engine I have ever own has blown away to mangled dust, I reckon I will just leave everything as near to stock as works right.  Nothing built as one thing lasts long as something else, and I have done the twin ton, and scared the heck out  of my self on the Bonneville flats.  I may be getting old, I suppose, but it seems counter productive to make everything faster. If I add up the money I have spent on 'improvements' I could have bought a dealership, and have all the Royal Enfields I want.

[luoma]

I have to admit I got a bit obsessed with potential imrpovements when I got my RE. There just seemed to be so much that could be done. Kinda like the old air-cooled VWs. However, my bike runs so nice now I don't think I will be doing anything else to it. All I have done is add the CMW performance kit to help it breath a little easier, and added a 19-tooth sprocket for easier cruising. I can run faster now, but the enjoyment ends after about 60mph. And that's not just me. I seldom find guys on the monster cruisers doing much beyond that. I also seldom see bikes of any size cruising the interstate, they all stay to the backroads and secondary highways.

I am still interested in other people's modifications and can't wait to see what CMW comes up with on their 570cc project bike, like sport cams, bigger carb, etc., but at my age I want to enjoy the remaining rides I've got rather than see how fast I can get to the end.

[Spitting Bull]

In this discussion I think everybody has been right.  One man's "change one thing and you put extra stresses on something else" is another man's "one challenge leads to another." You buy your bullet and then do what you like with it. 

I like old bikes, and I like everything about them - the primitive brakes, the notchy gearboxes, the limited power.  For me the 350 bullet was an opportunity to buy an old bike that was brand new, with no chewed-up fasteners, no worn or impossible-to-find parts, no rust, everything clean and easy to work on.  It was like a fully restored 50-year-old bike, but without having had to do it myself.  Apart from de-restricting the bike by removing the standard exhaust and re-jetting the carburetter to suit, I haven't done anything.  I like the bike with all its limitations.  I was happy last weekend to go on a 220 mile round trip with only the standard tool-kit on the bike and a Leatherman and small adjustable spanner in my pocket.  The only spare I took was a spare set of points. The bike performed faultlessly and I was pleased with that too, because I do all my own maintenance.

But if anybody wants to tweak the engine, squeezing out every last drop of power and constantly looking for ways to find more then if that's their idea of fun that's OK.  We're all on the same side.

Tom

[Peter]

I'm not interested in the last drop of power. That's just asking for trouble.
Performance tuning does not necessarily mean top speed.
It is really important to define your goals before you start.
The stock engine has a number of modifications from the original design which are undesirable and a nuisance.
The exhaust system and poor compression are the things which are most important from a performance point of view.
If your goal is to have a tractable engine and to pick up a little speed and to do this with a budget,
address the compression and the exhaust and change the sprocket.
A larger carb is easy to bolt on but may not match the rest of the engine and is expensive.
In the case of the Bullet, it won't get you any closer to a properly running cycle for everyday riding. Especially when you don't have the experience to dial it in or to just realize that it's a poor match and ditch it.
Forget cams, carbs, head mods, velocity stacks etc. unless you are intent on building  a high performance engine. I don't know if the stock air box is a problem never had one. Mine had the filter directly attached to the carb. I don't understand why most everyone is doing that to their intake tract. Looks maybe?
Bottom line is that every single modification needs to be done with a clear objective in mind.
And most importantly, the most sensible modifications are not necessarily the ones most easily done. (carb vs compression comes to mind)
It is not only about stock or all out performance, there is a sensible middle ground.
Just be aware that when you leave the "sensible" middle ground you will find yourself in an entirely different situation. The need for funds, knowledge, frustration tolerance and determination go up exponentially. Someone mentioned ambition, I guess that's what it is.

Peter


Here is my pride and joy, a 2003 Bullet Military:


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[RagMan]

A military without the added bits.. Looks very nice.

[JLR]

Peter--That is a nice looking Military. They aren't my cup o' tea but it does look good.


I think you all have some valid points. It is all relevant to the desired end. Performance mod, high peformance, stock...just depends on what you like and what kind of risk/challenges you are willing to take.
This is why I love reading this forum, I don't own one, haven't sat on one, and already know tons about them. Good, bad, quirks, tricks, tips, solutions and frustrations...and I still beleive that I would like to have one. Of course I'll have to sit on one first...but I'm  potentially going in 'informed' as opposed to blind when i do look at one. And for that

THANK YOU ALL.

[Peter]

Thanks.
It was a MIlitary at some point and now only the painted engine and the color are left.

Peter

[HMR]

Here is my pride and joy, a 2003 Bullet Military:

Pete.
Nice bike.

Is the carb-filter assembly attached only to the intake port? I use a Mikuni 32 mm with a Pipercross pod type filter and have had to make a bracket bolted to the rear tank mount to support the heavier carb  as the flange as well as the rubber manifold cracked with the weight nd vibrations.

Thanks
HMR

[Peter]

I have an Amal 30mm and an alloy manifold.
No other attachments and no problems so far.
(The second picture shows an in-line spin-on oil filter, in case someone notices)

Peter

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