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Author Topic: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....  (Read 4510 times)

chazzlee

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I've been considering the new EFI Royal Enfield as my next new machine, but at $3500-$3700 list the new Suzuki standard TU250 one-lunger (also with EFI) is going to make the more than $6K price of an Enfield a huge drawback for me.
Plus the Suzuki has a large USA dealership backup, and a much better (so far anyway) reputation for reliability...  There is an Enfield dealer near me, but it's a one man operation with the dealer being both seller and mechanic... 

-I don't know if an additional almost $3K for the Enfield is worth it to me just for the cool retro effect, y'know? This Suzie one lunger could be repainted and retro-ed pretty easily; European reviewers who've checked out the bike are already calling it Suzuki's Triumph Bonneville. And while the Suzuki is only a 250, it's top end is right up there with the 500cc Enfield's!

The TU250 is not in at USA dealerships yet, but when it is I'll be checking out both it and the new UCE-EFI Enfield very throughly... $3K is a lot of $$$ for me, especially in this new economy!  :-\
Chazzlee
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 05:50:41 PM by chazzlee »

Vince

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2009, 05:51:09 PM »
     If you are looking only for utility then you are probably right. If you want a fabulous bike to ride the Enfield has what you need. Take one on a test ride. You'll see what I mean.

r80rt

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2009, 07:22:53 PM »
I've read a few articles on that 250 suzi, it gets good review's and looks good too.
On the eighth day God created the C5, and it was better looking than anything on the planet.
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Alaroyal

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2009, 07:34:40 PM »
While you're checking out the Suzi 250, take a look at the S40 single 650, formerly the Savage.  My local dealer had a 4000.00 tag on a new one last week, and probably it could be bought for a tad less than that.  It has a belt drive, which to me is a huge advantage.
Dave

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ace.cafe

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2009, 07:40:37 PM »
I think you'll find there is a massive difference in the way the 2 bikes ride.

The UCE has about double the torque, and the TU250 will need to be revved and shifted alot more to keep on the power.

I personally don't see these 2 machines in the same class at all.
But, if low cost is the deciding factor and you want some kind of single, then I suppose the TU250 is an option.
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r80rt

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2009, 07:47:30 PM »
You are very right, not in the same class at all. I'll have a Royal Enfield please.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 07:53:40 PM by r80rt »
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Kruiser

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2009, 09:23:49 PM »
The Suzuki TU250 seems like a pretty decent value, but to me it's not Special. 
RE's to me, especially the new ones, are Special.

Blue Ridge Wheeltor

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2009, 09:27:03 PM »
I went looking for the TU250 at the cycle show, and was very disappointed. It looked like a toy compared to the other bikes.
I am sure it is a reliable bike, but it has no character. If all you want is transportation, it would be fine. If you are looking for a riding experience, skip it and get the Enfield.

I've had a lot of bikes. If all I want is an appliance to get from point A to point B, I'd get a Toyota Corolla.

Comparing the Suzuki to the new Enfield is like saying a Corolla is a better car than a Miata. It depends on what you need it to do. One you steer, one you drive.
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Ice

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2009, 09:52:42 PM »
I'm sure it will appeal to some but not my cup of tea really.
Apples to oranges as they say.
I believe the Bullet to have more torque from the get go.
A bullet engine can be built with double the out put.
Spares are inexpensive,readily available and will be for quite some time.

Just my .02 cents worth,,,,,,
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

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Bullet Bill

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2009, 01:30:45 AM »
Part of what interests me in these new Enfields is their supposed untapped potential.  Wasn't there a report earlier on that claimed the new engine was capable of 50-ish horsepower (with custom work, that is)?  Actually, I wouldn't know where to start to get that kind of power out of the Bullet... hypothetically, of course, and in a world where such customization is one hundred percent legal.

Any (strictly hypothetical) ideas?
There's something that doesn't make sense... let's go and poke it with a stick.

r80rt

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2009, 06:29:46 AM »
The only Mod I'm interested in is the upswept pipe for the C5, purely because it looks so cool. If there is a small increase in power that's good too, I think the UCE will have all the power I need or want from a Bullet. If I want fast, there are a lot of fast bikes on the market at good prices. I want a classy, vintage style big single, I've owned and ridden lots of bikes, Honda,Harley,Norton, BSA, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Triumph, Ducati, Ural, Chang Jiang and others. The most fun I ever had was on a 1940 BSA 500cc flathead and I've wanted a modern equivalent that I could ride without wearing out expensive hard to find parts. The Bullet Classic delivers in spades.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 04:54:56 PM by r80rt »
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prof_stack

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2009, 08:34:33 AM »
The TU250 MSRP shot up to $3,800 over the past few months. 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I think the TU looks good but think the G5 and C5 look great. 

I'd like to testride the TU.  The local Suzuki shop is about 4 miles away.  I also want to testride the G5 and get to drive 60 miles to Vince's, who should open a Seattle dealership.   ;D

PhilJ

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2009, 08:52:49 AM »
Prof, after reading your post I think I heard the cardboard boxes being packed at Vince's. You got a spare lot net to your house for his new location?   8) ::)

ace.cafe

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2009, 10:37:43 AM »
Part of what interests me in these new Enfields is their supposed untapped potential.  Wasn't there a report earlier on that claimed the new engine was capable of 50-ish horsepower (with custom work, that is)?  Actually, I wouldn't know where to start to get that kind of power out of the Bullet... hypothetically, of course, and in a world where such customization is one hundred percent legal.

Any (strictly hypothetical) ideas?

If anything like that could happen, it will come from the aftermarket, and not from Chennai.
My recollection was that maybe 40hp might be attainable with certain un-named mods.
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Cabo Cruz

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2009, 10:42:04 AM »
"My recollection was that maybe 40hp might be attainable with certain un-named mods."  ace.cafe

Ditto!!!
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

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ace.cafe

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2009, 10:56:00 AM »
"My recollection was that maybe 40hp might be attainable with certain un-named mods."  ace.cafe

Ditto!!!

I seem to remember reading a similar thing a few years back, about the Electra AVL engine.
"Designed to be capable of 44hp".
Anybody ever seen an AVL get any more than about 23rear-wheel hp?
Neither has anyone else.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 10:57:33 AM by ace.cafe »
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Vince

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2009, 11:28:31 AM »
The TU250 MSRP shot up to $3,800 over the past few months. 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I think the TU looks good but think the G5 and C5 look great. 

I'd like to testride the TU.  The local Suzuki shop is about 4 miles away.  I also want to testride the G5 and get to drive 60 miles to Vince's, who should open a Seattle dealership.   ;D
     Professor, my wife traveled 1200 miles for me. I'm worth a 60 mile trip. You should test ride one of these. That is also worth a 60 mile trip.
     And we are moving! April 1 will be the opening date for the new store.  Check my web sit www.vincesmotorcyclestore.com. Details will be posted in about a week.

prof_stack

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2009, 11:31:34 AM »
I'd like to testride the TU.  The local Suzuki shop is about 4 miles away.  I also want to testride the G5 and get to drive 60 miles to Vince's, who should open a Seattle dealership.   ;D
     Professor, my wife traveled 1200 miles for me. I'm worth a 60 mile trip. You should test ride one of these. That is also worth a 60 mile trip.
     And we are moving! April 1 will be the opening date for the new store.  Check my web sit www.vincesmotorcyclestore.com. Details will be posted in about a week.
Terri must be pretty special to do 1200 miles!

Will you be moving northward or southward?  (Say northward...)

Vince

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2009, 11:49:30 AM »
     It's just a mile into Lacey. I am FINALLY getting away from this land lord. We have been in litigation for 2 1/2 of the 3 1/2 years I have been here. My attorney calls him the worst he has ever seen. My new land lord is a great guy. I rented a warehouse just off the main drag in downtown Lacey. It's easy to find.
     Teri is a native Olympian. She moved to San Diego to marry me. When S.D. got too big for me This seemed as nice a place to move to as I had seen, So I wound up here. She's happy, the sex is great, and she's a heck of cook.
     Eat your heart out!

UK-Classics

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2009, 06:24:34 PM »
"My recollection was that maybe 40hp might be attainable with certain un-named mods."  ace.cafe

Ditto!!!

I seem to remember reading a similar thing a few years back, about the Electra AVL engine.
"Designed to be capable of 44hp".
Anybody ever seen an AVL get any more than about 23rear-wheel hp?
Neither has anyone else.

I'm not sure about this obsession with getting more & more from an RE (whatever varient) - if you want real performance get yourself a twin  :D
Cheers
Nick

Bullet Bill

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2009, 07:07:53 PM »
"My recollection was that maybe 40hp might be attainable with certain un-named mods."  ace.cafe

Ditto!!!

I seem to remember reading a similar thing a few years back, about the Electra AVL engine.
"Designed to be capable of 44hp".
Anybody ever seen an AVL get any more than about 23rear-wheel hp?
Neither has anyone else.

I'm not sure about this obsession with getting more & more from an RE (whatever varient) - if you want real performance get yourself a twin  :D

I should probably respond to that, seeing as I started this little talk about performance.  I've never hoped to match a modern mid size bike on an Enfield.  The big four, along with Triumph, BMW, and countless others, can beat any Bullet on the road with a similarly displaced bike.  I guess I'm just  hoping for what any biker in the 50's and 60's would have hoped for:  better-than-factory performance.  I'm not trying to beat a Honda, I'm trying to beat the Bullet... with a better Bullet.  No practical reason for it, I just want to know I'm getting the most out of my bike.
There's something that doesn't make sense... let's go and poke it with a stick.

ace.cafe

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2009, 07:15:37 PM »
"My recollection was that maybe 40hp might be attainable with certain un-named mods."  ace.cafe

Ditto!!!

I seem to remember reading a similar thing a few years back, about the Electra AVL engine.
"Designed to be capable of 44hp".
Anybody ever seen an AVL get any more than about 23rear-wheel hp?
Neither has anyone else.

I'm not sure about this obsession with getting more & more from an RE (whatever varient) - if you want real performance get yourself a twin  :D

Twins are too heavy. If they just cleaved off one of their cylinders, they could be a proper motorbike. :D

Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  and the Joe Mondello Signature cylinder head for the Bullet.

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ace.cafe

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2009, 07:30:10 PM »
"My recollection was that maybe 40hp might be attainable with certain un-named mods."  ace.cafe

Ditto!!!

I seem to remember reading a similar thing a few years back, about the Electra AVL engine.
"Designed to be capable of 44hp".
Anybody ever seen an AVL get any more than about 23rear-wheel hp?
Neither has anyone else.

I'm not sure about this obsession with getting more & more from an RE (whatever varient) - if you want real performance get yourself a twin  :D

I should probably respond to that, seeing as I started this little talk about performance.  I've never hoped to match a modern mid size bike on an Enfield.  The big four, along with Triumph, BMW, and countless others, can beat any Bullet on the road with a similarly displaced bike.  I guess I'm just  hoping for what any biker in the 50's and 60's would have hoped for:  better-than-factory performance.  I'm not trying to beat a Honda, I'm trying to beat the Bullet... with a better Bullet.  No practical reason for it, I just want to know I'm getting the most out of my bike.

Bill,
It's do-able.
A properly prepared Bullet can go surprisingly well.


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Bullet Bill

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2009, 08:42:15 PM »
Good to know, Ace.  Now there's just the "how" of it to worry about.  Better injectors?  The aftermarket exhaust?  A proper break-in?  Who knows, but I plan to find out before I ever put a leg over a UCE.
There's something that doesn't make sense... let's go and poke it with a stick.

Cabo Cruz

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2009, 08:51:21 PM »
Brother Bill, I insert below part of the text from a recent response I made to Brother Gerry.  I believe you will find that I am quite content with my iron barrel 500.  In addition, you will read about an anecdote matching the agility of my RE to that of a 2005 Hinckley Thruxton.  The fact of the matter is that Brother Ace and I were not being critical of our favorite bike's HP.  Instead, he and I were merely restating the optimistic HP numbers we have seen prior to the release of modified (AVL) or new (UCE) power plants.   ;)

The partial copy of the text goes as follows:

"Now, to 'happily' address your question, I can tell you that, by the middle of last year, I ended up with the three following motorcycles: Perla (a 2004 RE Sixty-5), Graciela (a 2005 Triumph Bonneville) and Rosa (a 2006 Ducati 695 Monster).  By July, I thinned the herd down to the one I could never betray: Perla!

Just today, by the way, I took Perla down to British and American Motorcycles -- the shop of a pair of renowned motorcycle restorers and mechanics in Doraville, GA.  Both Brian (the Aussie) and Randy (the Good Ol' Georgia Boy) came back with smiles on their faces after their respective heats on Perla.  In fact, Brian set the bar while on Perla at 60 and 50 miles/hour on two turns near the shop.  By absolute coincidence, another enthusiast pulled up on his tricked out (80 HP at the wheel) 2005 Thruxton.  He offered Brian a ride.  Jokingly, Brian said, as he ripped out of the parking lot, 'let's see if this bike can best the 60 and 50 marks!'  The answer turned out to be: 65 and 50.  The owner of the Triumph slumped down on a chair with an acute case of the What the F_ _ks?!     

In closing, I ask you to please give my warmest regards to the model who so graciously posed for your new avatar and ask the following:

Do you have any other questions, Brother Gerry, about my feelings for the "Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Thumper motorcycle"?   ;)  Cabo Cruz
(under the Hey Cabo thread)   
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

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NAME: Perla

ace.cafe

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2009, 09:03:19 PM »
Good to know, Ace.  Now there's just the "how" of it to worry about.  Better injectors?  The aftermarket exhaust?  A proper break-in?  Who knows, but I plan to find out before I ever put a leg over a UCE.

Bill,
I need to see the head of the UCE before I could make any real statements about how much could be gotten from it.
There will be minimal stuff available at the outset, but hopefully more speed parts might be available as time goes by.

I know that Kevin is working on getting a Power Commander made for the UCE, which should help. With these electronically controlled bikes, that is where alot of it is done. And the aftermarket exhaust will be there too.

That should give it some extra "oomph". Probably good for about 20% more than a stock bike. Maybe even more.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 09:05:24 PM by ace.cafe »
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Ice

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2009, 05:44:29 PM »
IMHO, Vinces is worth the trip even if its a 200 mile drive.
All goods and services are worth the prices charged.
 Also there is good food local to him and good drinks of all types from juice to alcohol.
Lots of shopping for other non motor cycle products within minutes of driving.

Disclaimer*
My opinions are solely my own.
 I am not beholden or indebted to Vinces Motor Cycle store in any way shape or form.
If you want a store that sucks or hype and attitude please look elsewhere.
These are just my observations.

Now back to the thread I suspect the UCEs potential will be discovered and tapped by the racing/performance crowd.
 I'm more interested in power to weight ratios and usable power curves than raw  Dyno numbers.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military...it takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

ace.cafe

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2009, 08:30:08 PM »
The UCE has about 30 foot pounds of torque.
Assuming it could hang onto that torque for several thousand rpms, then it could reach 40hp at 7000 rpm.
(30ft-lbs x 7000) divided by 5252 = 39.98 hp @ 7000 rpm.

Considering it already has an 8.5:1 compression ratio, it won't be able to withstand much compression increase, so that's pretty much out for torque increase.
Stroke is fixed at 90mm.
Bore may be able to be enlarged.
A properly tuned exhaust might add some.
I don't know what the port flow is, or whether it could hang onto the torque up to 7k rpm or not but I kind of doubt it. And the hydraulic lifters would probably pump up like they always do and cause issues over 6000 rpm. And we still have the long stroke piston speed issues. And we have the previous history of India-Enfield doing some over-rating of the actual power, so we don't really know if it produces exactly what they say it does in stock form.


So, realistically, without a bore increase we're looking at a potential of:
(30 ft-lbs x 6000rpm) divided by 5252 = 34.27hp @ 6000 rpm.

If we can bump the torque peak with a bore increase, then we would get a little more.
If we could get some cams in there, and dump the hydraulic lifters, or put in a a big cam with hydraulic roller lifters, then we could see some more come out of that, but probably with a loss of some of the lower end power.

That's a "quick and dirty" assessment of what we're looking at for potential.

So, with a weight of 370 pounds, and 34.27 hp, we see a weight-to-power ratio of 10.79 to 1.
Contrast a stock Harley 883 with about 50hp and weight of about 570 pounds, and it comes out to 11.4 to 1, but it does have more torque than the Bullet, so it will be able to deal with the extra weight of the rider better.

So, I think that a modded UCE should be in the ballpark with a 883 Sportster for riding, and should be able to keep up with it pretty well. I don't know if you could beat it, but I think you could hang in there with it.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 09:32:36 AM by ace.cafe »
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Ice

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2009, 04:39:13 PM »
The UCE has about 30 foot pounds of torque.
Assuming it could hang onto that torque for several thousand rpms, then it could reach 40hp at 7000 rpm.
(30ft-lbs x 7000) divided by 5252 = 39.98 hp @ 7000 rpm.

Considering it already has an 8.5:1 compression ratio, it won't be able to withstand much compression increase, so that's pretty much out for torque increase.
Stroke is fixed at 90mm.
Bore may be able to be enlarged.
A properly tuned exhaust might add some.
I don't know what the port flow is, or whether it could hang onto the torque up to 7k rpm or not but I kind of doubt it. And the hydraulic lifters would probably pump up like they always do and cause issues over 6000 rpm. And we still have the long stroke piston speed issues. And we have the previous history of India-Enfield doing some over-rating of the actual power, so we don't really know if it produces exactly what they say it does in stock form.


So, realistically, without a bore increase we're looking at a potential of:
(30 ft-lbs x 6000rpm) divided by 5252 = 34.27hp @ 6000 rpm.

If we can bump the torque peak with a bore increase, then we would get a little more.
If we could get some cams in there, and dump the hydraulic lifters, or put in a a big cam with hydraulic roller lifters, then we could see some more come out of that, but probably with a loss of some of the lower end power.

That's a "quick and dirty" assessment of what we're looking at for potential.

So, with a weight of 370 pounds, and 34.27 hp, we see a weight-to-power ratio of 10.79 to 1.
Contrast a stock Harley 883 with about 50hp and weight of about 570 pounds, and it comes out to 11.4 to 1, but it does have more torque than the Bullet, so it will be able to deal with the extra weight of the rider better.

So, I think that a modded UCE should be in the ballpark with a 883 Sportster for riding, and should be able to keep up with it pretty well. I don't know if you could beat it, but I think you could hang in there with it.

CHa-CHIIIINGggg Pay Dirt.
 Now you have a bike that will putt all day long, handle hills and the occasional two up ride with out much change of riding technique and have way more torque and horse power than needed to get out of a potential danger zone. ;D

 A Subaru WRX STi is no slouch. Please correct me if my info is wrong but IIRC it has weight to power ratio of around 11.15 pounds per H.P.

I just don't see where the Suzuki SU is comparable I think it should be judged for what it is and against like bikes rather than compared to a Bullet of any sort.
Two close, but slightly different genres inmho.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 04:46:54 PM by Ice »
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military...it takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2009, 07:34:07 PM »
here are some comparative torque and power charts for the UCE. The power curves are at the engine.

ace.cafe

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2009, 07:55:54 PM »
here are some comparative torque and power charts for the UCE. The power curves are at the engine.

Thanks Kevin!
Great info.

For those not familiar with converting kw to hp, or Nm to foot pounds, it comes out to about
27.5hp
30.2 foot pounds
at the crank, for the UCE as shown.
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Cabo Cruz

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2009, 02:52:59 PM »
Brothers Kevin and Ace, I thank you for the information!

Ace, what do these numbers at the crank normally translate to numbers at the rear wheel?

I thank you, in advance, for the next lesson, Brother Ace!
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

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BIKE:   2004 Royal Enfield Sixty-5
NAME: Perla

ace.cafe

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2009, 03:11:42 PM »
Brothers Kevin and Ace, I thank you for the information!

Ace, what do these numbers at the crank normally translate to numbers at the rear wheel?

I thank you, in advance, for the next lesson, Brother Ace!

Papa Juan,

The normal de-rating of power for losses in the drive train is 15%. It's an approximation because each design is different, and each bike is even different because of minor production variations and tolerances.
But, that's the "rule of thumb" for approximation.

For the UCE, using the "15% rule of thumb" would come out to
23.375 hp at the rear wheel, in stock form.

« Last Edit: March 16, 2009, 03:14:19 PM by ace.cafe »
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Cabo Cruz

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2009, 03:19:02 PM »
"Papa Juan,

The normal de-rating of power for losses in the drive train is 15%. It's an approximation because each design is different, and each bike is even different because of minor production variations and tolerances.
But, that's the "rule of thumb" for approximation.

For the UCE, using the "15% rule of thumb" would come out to
23.375 hp at the rear wheel, in stock form."  ace.cafe


TANKS AND HEAVY ARTILLERY!!!
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

REA:    Member No. 119
BIKE:   2004 Royal Enfield Sixty-5
NAME: Perla