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Author Topic: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....  (Read 4554 times)

ace.cafe

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2009, 10:56:00 AM »
"My recollection was that maybe 40hp might be attainable with certain un-named mods."  ace.cafe

Ditto!!!

I seem to remember reading a similar thing a few years back, about the Electra AVL engine.
"Designed to be capable of 44hp".
Anybody ever seen an AVL get any more than about 23rear-wheel hp?
Neither has anyone else.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 10:57:33 AM by ace.cafe »
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Vince

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2009, 11:28:31 AM »
The TU250 MSRP shot up to $3,800 over the past few months. 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I think the TU looks good but think the G5 and C5 look great. 

I'd like to testride the TU.  The local Suzuki shop is about 4 miles away.  I also want to testride the G5 and get to drive 60 miles to Vince's, who should open a Seattle dealership.   ;D
     Professor, my wife traveled 1200 miles for me. I'm worth a 60 mile trip. You should test ride one of these. That is also worth a 60 mile trip.
     And we are moving! April 1 will be the opening date for the new store.  Check my web sit www.vincesmotorcyclestore.com. Details will be posted in about a week.

prof_stack

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2009, 11:31:34 AM »
I'd like to testride the TU.  The local Suzuki shop is about 4 miles away.  I also want to testride the G5 and get to drive 60 miles to Vince's, who should open a Seattle dealership.   ;D
     Professor, my wife traveled 1200 miles for me. I'm worth a 60 mile trip. You should test ride one of these. That is also worth a 60 mile trip.
     And we are moving! April 1 will be the opening date for the new store.  Check my web sit www.vincesmotorcyclestore.com. Details will be posted in about a week.
Terri must be pretty special to do 1200 miles!

Will you be moving northward or southward?  (Say northward...)

Vince

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2009, 11:49:30 AM »
     It's just a mile into Lacey. I am FINALLY getting away from this land lord. We have been in litigation for 2 1/2 of the 3 1/2 years I have been here. My attorney calls him the worst he has ever seen. My new land lord is a great guy. I rented a warehouse just off the main drag in downtown Lacey. It's easy to find.
     Teri is a native Olympian. She moved to San Diego to marry me. When S.D. got too big for me This seemed as nice a place to move to as I had seen, So I wound up here. She's happy, the sex is great, and she's a heck of cook.
     Eat your heart out!

UK-Classics

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2009, 06:24:34 PM »
"My recollection was that maybe 40hp might be attainable with certain un-named mods."  ace.cafe

Ditto!!!

I seem to remember reading a similar thing a few years back, about the Electra AVL engine.
"Designed to be capable of 44hp".
Anybody ever seen an AVL get any more than about 23rear-wheel hp?
Neither has anyone else.

I'm not sure about this obsession with getting more & more from an RE (whatever varient) - if you want real performance get yourself a twin  :D
Cheers
Nick

Bullet Bill

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2009, 07:07:53 PM »
"My recollection was that maybe 40hp might be attainable with certain un-named mods."  ace.cafe

Ditto!!!

I seem to remember reading a similar thing a few years back, about the Electra AVL engine.
"Designed to be capable of 44hp".
Anybody ever seen an AVL get any more than about 23rear-wheel hp?
Neither has anyone else.

I'm not sure about this obsession with getting more & more from an RE (whatever varient) - if you want real performance get yourself a twin  :D

I should probably respond to that, seeing as I started this little talk about performance.  I've never hoped to match a modern mid size bike on an Enfield.  The big four, along with Triumph, BMW, and countless others, can beat any Bullet on the road with a similarly displaced bike.  I guess I'm just  hoping for what any biker in the 50's and 60's would have hoped for:  better-than-factory performance.  I'm not trying to beat a Honda, I'm trying to beat the Bullet... with a better Bullet.  No practical reason for it, I just want to know I'm getting the most out of my bike.
There's something that doesn't make sense... let's go and poke it with a stick.

ace.cafe

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2009, 07:15:37 PM »
"My recollection was that maybe 40hp might be attainable with certain un-named mods."  ace.cafe

Ditto!!!

I seem to remember reading a similar thing a few years back, about the Electra AVL engine.
"Designed to be capable of 44hp".
Anybody ever seen an AVL get any more than about 23rear-wheel hp?
Neither has anyone else.

I'm not sure about this obsession with getting more & more from an RE (whatever varient) - if you want real performance get yourself a twin  :D

Twins are too heavy. If they just cleaved off one of their cylinders, they could be a proper motorbike. :D

Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  and the Joe Mondello Signature cylinder head for the Bullet.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

ace.cafe

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2009, 07:30:10 PM »
"My recollection was that maybe 40hp might be attainable with certain un-named mods."  ace.cafe

Ditto!!!

I seem to remember reading a similar thing a few years back, about the Electra AVL engine.
"Designed to be capable of 44hp".
Anybody ever seen an AVL get any more than about 23rear-wheel hp?
Neither has anyone else.

I'm not sure about this obsession with getting more & more from an RE (whatever varient) - if you want real performance get yourself a twin  :D

I should probably respond to that, seeing as I started this little talk about performance.  I've never hoped to match a modern mid size bike on an Enfield.  The big four, along with Triumph, BMW, and countless others, can beat any Bullet on the road with a similarly displaced bike.  I guess I'm just  hoping for what any biker in the 50's and 60's would have hoped for:  better-than-factory performance.  I'm not trying to beat a Honda, I'm trying to beat the Bullet... with a better Bullet.  No practical reason for it, I just want to know I'm getting the most out of my bike.

Bill,
It's do-able.
A properly prepared Bullet can go surprisingly well.


Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  and the Joe Mondello Signature cylinder head for the Bullet.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

Bullet Bill

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2009, 08:42:15 PM »
Good to know, Ace.  Now there's just the "how" of it to worry about.  Better injectors?  The aftermarket exhaust?  A proper break-in?  Who knows, but I plan to find out before I ever put a leg over a UCE.
There's something that doesn't make sense... let's go and poke it with a stick.

Cabo Cruz

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2009, 08:51:21 PM »
Brother Bill, I insert below part of the text from a recent response I made to Brother Gerry.  I believe you will find that I am quite content with my iron barrel 500.  In addition, you will read about an anecdote matching the agility of my RE to that of a 2005 Hinckley Thruxton.  The fact of the matter is that Brother Ace and I were not being critical of our favorite bike's HP.  Instead, he and I were merely restating the optimistic HP numbers we have seen prior to the release of modified (AVL) or new (UCE) power plants.   ;)

The partial copy of the text goes as follows:

"Now, to 'happily' address your question, I can tell you that, by the middle of last year, I ended up with the three following motorcycles: Perla (a 2004 RE Sixty-5), Graciela (a 2005 Triumph Bonneville) and Rosa (a 2006 Ducati 695 Monster).  By July, I thinned the herd down to the one I could never betray: Perla!

Just today, by the way, I took Perla down to British and American Motorcycles -- the shop of a pair of renowned motorcycle restorers and mechanics in Doraville, GA.  Both Brian (the Aussie) and Randy (the Good Ol' Georgia Boy) came back with smiles on their faces after their respective heats on Perla.  In fact, Brian set the bar while on Perla at 60 and 50 miles/hour on two turns near the shop.  By absolute coincidence, another enthusiast pulled up on his tricked out (80 HP at the wheel) 2005 Thruxton.  He offered Brian a ride.  Jokingly, Brian said, as he ripped out of the parking lot, 'let's see if this bike can best the 60 and 50 marks!'  The answer turned out to be: 65 and 50.  The owner of the Triumph slumped down on a chair with an acute case of the What the F_ _ks?!     

In closing, I ask you to please give my warmest regards to the model who so graciously posed for your new avatar and ask the following:

Do you have any other questions, Brother Gerry, about my feelings for the "Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Thumper motorcycle"?   ;)  Cabo Cruz
(under the Hey Cabo thread)   
Long live the Bullets and those who ride them!

Keep the shiny side up, the boots on the pegs and best REgards,

Papa Juan

REA:    Member No. 119
BIKE:   2004 Royal Enfield Sixty-5
NAME: Perla

ace.cafe

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2009, 09:03:19 PM »
Good to know, Ace.  Now there's just the "how" of it to worry about.  Better injectors?  The aftermarket exhaust?  A proper break-in?  Who knows, but I plan to find out before I ever put a leg over a UCE.

Bill,
I need to see the head of the UCE before I could make any real statements about how much could be gotten from it.
There will be minimal stuff available at the outset, but hopefully more speed parts might be available as time goes by.

I know that Kevin is working on getting a Power Commander made for the UCE, which should help. With these electronically controlled bikes, that is where alot of it is done. And the aftermarket exhaust will be there too.

That should give it some extra "oomph". Probably good for about 20% more than a stock bike. Maybe even more.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2009, 09:05:24 PM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  and the Joe Mondello Signature cylinder head for the Bullet.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

Ice

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2009, 05:44:29 PM »
IMHO, Vinces is worth the trip even if its a 200 mile drive.
All goods and services are worth the prices charged.
 Also there is good food local to him and good drinks of all types from juice to alcohol.
Lots of shopping for other non motor cycle products within minutes of driving.

Disclaimer*
My opinions are solely my own.
 I am not beholden or indebted to Vinces Motor Cycle store in any way shape or form.
If you want a store that sucks or hype and attitude please look elsewhere.
These are just my observations.

Now back to the thread I suspect the UCEs potential will be discovered and tapped by the racing/performance crowd.
 I'm more interested in power to weight ratios and usable power curves than raw  Dyno numbers.
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military...it takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

ace.cafe

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2009, 08:30:08 PM »
The UCE has about 30 foot pounds of torque.
Assuming it could hang onto that torque for several thousand rpms, then it could reach 40hp at 7000 rpm.
(30ft-lbs x 7000) divided by 5252 = 39.98 hp @ 7000 rpm.

Considering it already has an 8.5:1 compression ratio, it won't be able to withstand much compression increase, so that's pretty much out for torque increase.
Stroke is fixed at 90mm.
Bore may be able to be enlarged.
A properly tuned exhaust might add some.
I don't know what the port flow is, or whether it could hang onto the torque up to 7k rpm or not but I kind of doubt it. And the hydraulic lifters would probably pump up like they always do and cause issues over 6000 rpm. And we still have the long stroke piston speed issues. And we have the previous history of India-Enfield doing some over-rating of the actual power, so we don't really know if it produces exactly what they say it does in stock form.


So, realistically, without a bore increase we're looking at a potential of:
(30 ft-lbs x 6000rpm) divided by 5252 = 34.27hp @ 6000 rpm.

If we can bump the torque peak with a bore increase, then we would get a little more.
If we could get some cams in there, and dump the hydraulic lifters, or put in a a big cam with hydraulic roller lifters, then we could see some more come out of that, but probably with a loss of some of the lower end power.

That's a "quick and dirty" assessment of what we're looking at for potential.

So, with a weight of 370 pounds, and 34.27 hp, we see a weight-to-power ratio of 10.79 to 1.
Contrast a stock Harley 883 with about 50hp and weight of about 570 pounds, and it comes out to 11.4 to 1, but it does have more torque than the Bullet, so it will be able to deal with the extra weight of the rider better.

So, I think that a modded UCE should be in the ballpark with a 883 Sportster for riding, and should be able to keep up with it pretty well. I don't know if you could beat it, but I think you could hang in there with it.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 09:32:36 AM by ace.cafe »
Home of the ACE Fireball 535 Bullet,  and the Joe Mondello Signature cylinder head for the Bullet.

Please visit my new website:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/AcePerformanceBullets/

Ice

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2009, 04:39:13 PM »
The UCE has about 30 foot pounds of torque.
Assuming it could hang onto that torque for several thousand rpms, then it could reach 40hp at 7000 rpm.
(30ft-lbs x 7000) divided by 5252 = 39.98 hp @ 7000 rpm.

Considering it already has an 8.5:1 compression ratio, it won't be able to withstand much compression increase, so that's pretty much out for torque increase.
Stroke is fixed at 90mm.
Bore may be able to be enlarged.
A properly tuned exhaust might add some.
I don't know what the port flow is, or whether it could hang onto the torque up to 7k rpm or not but I kind of doubt it. And the hydraulic lifters would probably pump up like they always do and cause issues over 6000 rpm. And we still have the long stroke piston speed issues. And we have the previous history of India-Enfield doing some over-rating of the actual power, so we don't really know if it produces exactly what they say it does in stock form.


So, realistically, without a bore increase we're looking at a potential of:
(30 ft-lbs x 6000rpm) divided by 5252 = 34.27hp @ 6000 rpm.

If we can bump the torque peak with a bore increase, then we would get a little more.
If we could get some cams in there, and dump the hydraulic lifters, or put in a a big cam with hydraulic roller lifters, then we could see some more come out of that, but probably with a loss of some of the lower end power.

That's a "quick and dirty" assessment of what we're looking at for potential.

So, with a weight of 370 pounds, and 34.27 hp, we see a weight-to-power ratio of 10.79 to 1.
Contrast a stock Harley 883 with about 50hp and weight of about 570 pounds, and it comes out to 11.4 to 1, but it does have more torque than the Bullet, so it will be able to deal with the extra weight of the rider better.

So, I think that a modded UCE should be in the ballpark with a 883 Sportster for riding, and should be able to keep up with it pretty well. I don't know if you could beat it, but I think you could hang in there with it.

CHa-CHIIIINGggg Pay Dirt.
 Now you have a bike that will putt all day long, handle hills and the occasional two up ride with out much change of riding technique and have way more torque and horse power than needed to get out of a potential danger zone. ;D

 A Subaru WRX STi is no slouch. Please correct me if my info is wrong but IIRC it has weight to power ratio of around 11.15 pounds per H.P.

I just don't see where the Suzuki SU is comparable I think it should be judged for what it is and against like bikes rather than compared to a Bullet of any sort.
Two close, but slightly different genres inmho.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2009, 04:46:54 PM by Ice »
I can break it better,,,,at night, in the rain, on the trail,, 20 miles from nowhere.

REA #136

"TIMEX", the '06 Iron Barrel Military...it takes me everywhere I want to go... and some places I shouldn't.

Kevin Mahoney

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Re: New one-banger competition for the Enfields this 2009 year....
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2009, 07:34:07 PM »
here are some comparative torque and power charts for the UCE. The power curves are at the engine.