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Author Topic: Some electrical advice needed.  (Read 262 times)

young gun

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Some electrical advice needed.
« on: January 15, 2015, 11:39:13 AM »
Hi all, its been awhile since I last posted.

I need advice with regards to my indicators indicator light (idiot light), that is the light that is in the speedometer enclosure that indicates when the indicators are on. The standard light is useless and I upgraded to an LED which is much brighter but being a diode, only works, with I think the right indicator. I am guessing that with the original electronics, the normal incandescent idiot light would light up with a negative to positive electrical flow for say the right indicator and then with left indicator it would light up with a positive to negative flow, so it really didnt matter what the polarity was. With an LED, being a diode, that cant happen so I want to put in a bridge rectifier to ensure that the polarity going to the LED is always the same.

Now as far as bridge rectifiers are concerned, what kind of circuit do I need to look for? As far as I can tell, the Iron Barrels electronics are 12v, 3A? yes? so if I go for a Silicon Bridge Rectifier Diode with Mounting Slot SIL 4 Pin VF @ IF= 1V@6A VRRM= 400V IFM= 6A I should be fine?

http://www.communica.co.za/Catalog/Details/P1383794016

I dabble with electronics but I am no expert so i just want to make sure my thinking is correct.


« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 12:00:00 PM by young gun »

AgentX

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Re: Some electrical advice needed.
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2015, 12:18:12 PM »
This is not correct thinking.  You should start with a wiring diagram.

The indicator side is not selected by polarity.  It's by a switch that puts power to one side or the other.  The power that feeds to the switch is fed through a flasher unit which alternately opens and closes the circuit when power is applied; this pulsing power then feeds out to the indicator lamps when the switch closes.

When you upgrade indicator stuff to LEDs, it can mess things up because the resistance in the system is different than what the stock flasher unit is designed to deal with.  There are inexpensive flasher units that will work with LEDs.  However, how this fits in with the indicator light on your dash will take a little thinking it out.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 12:22:05 PM by AgentX »

young gun

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Re: Some electrical advice needed.
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2015, 12:40:52 PM »
Yeah I have the correct flasher unit for my LED indicators and they work fine. I'm not talking about the indicators themselves but the indicator light in the speedometer housing that shows the indicators are working. We call them idiot lights, I don't know what you guys would call them.

As far as I can see its just a polarity issue, that's why i want to use the bridge rectifier to ensure that the current going to this light is always the same polarity. It definitely swaps over, this is why the LED will only light up in one direction.



« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 12:43:50 PM by young gun »

AgentX

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Re: Some electrical advice needed.
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2015, 01:09:59 PM »
You're right.  I totally misunderstood what was going on.

Yeah, the incandescent doesn't care about polarity, but the LED does.

young gun

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Re: Some electrical advice needed.
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2015, 01:28:25 PM »
So I checked the polarity of the idiot light connector with a voltmeter and it was all over the place, bouncing from positive to negative 0.5v to 2v and that was irrespective of what side the indicator switch was set to. I have uploaded a video that will easier explain it :)

Its weird.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2uyH63HC4M

Anybody know whats going on? IIRC when I connected the incandescent bulb, they didnt work at all :D Right now I just dont have any indicator idiot light, not that is any worse than the original incandescent but I would like to get it fixed. I spoke to some of my mates who are into electronics and they recommended a bridge rectifier.

 
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 01:32:32 PM by young gun »

KenKZN

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Re: Some electrical advice needed.
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2015, 03:21:41 PM »
I think I've got it. Let's say the telltale/idiot light is wired like this: one side of the filament bulb connects to the output from indicator switch for left side, the other side of filament bulb connects to the output from the indicator switch for right side. When one of the indicators is on then one side is intermittently provided with live from the flasher unit and so is the idiot light. The other side of the idiot light is connected to the other indicators, which have the front and rear indicator lamps in parallel (and conventionally with cool/unlit filaments), providing a path to ground or negative. Because the little idiot light uses little current the opposite side does not light up, although current is passing through those lamps too. When you substitute an LED bulb it only works/lights up for one side when it is forward-biased. We notice from the video that it does light up the opposite side, although a bit dimmer, in the one case. I reckon that you would solve this problem AND get it to work by doing as follows: connect a diode from left indicator to + input to idiot lamp, connect another diode from right indicator lamp to + input to idiot lamp, connect - input to idiot lamp to ground. Please also make sure that this LED lamp has current limiting, not just an LED. I would try 1N4001 diode, the right way around of course. Hoping this helps....

solg

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Re: Some electrical advice needed.
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2015, 04:56:06 PM »
I used one of these when I switched to LED  http://www.kuryakyn.com/products/719/diode-kit
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Arizoni

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Re: Some electrical advice needed.
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2015, 10:59:52 PM »
Young gun has it right if the IB's are wired like the UCE's.
Due to the way it's wired this ends up causing the power to flow in one way thru the indicator bulb with the right signals on and the other way with the left signal on.  The end result is the indicator light must be able to work with either polarity being supplied.

While the dedicated rectifier circuit method will work there is (for most of us) an easier way to solve the problem.

Most LED's are simple diodes that require the correct polerity however for a little more money LED's designed to be used in an AC circuit can be bought.

These AC, LED's don't care which way the current is flowing so they work fine for the Royal Enfield turn signal indicator in the speedometer.
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young gun

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Re: Some electrical advice needed.
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2015, 04:22:19 AM »
Arizoni I looked at that BUT I'm in South Africa so shipping out a $1 bulb is cost prohibitive. Our postal system is not up to scratch so if you actually want to see the parcel, you need to ship via courier which you can imagine is very expensive. I find shipping out China is cheaper but the same applies.

So the bridge rectifier idea should work then? I'll get the circuit, it can buy it locally and it costs nothing :)

KenKZN, the idea you are going with is very similar to a bridge rectifier, it's just forcing the polarity of the power to always be the same.

Solg thanks for the link! I'll check that out :)

young gun

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Re: Some electrical advice needed.
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2015, 04:49:52 PM »
Ok so I was pretty much bang on the money. Here's my fix using a bridge rectifier :)

I wrapped it all up in insulation once I was sure it worked. Cost me about 20c :)


AgentX

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Re: Some electrical advice needed.
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2015, 10:32:55 AM »
good work!

tooseevee

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Re: Some electrical advice needed.
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2015, 01:07:38 PM »
Ok so I was pretty much bang on the money. Here's my fix using a bridge rectifier :)

I wrapped it all up in insulation once I was sure it worked. Cost me about 20c :)

           You guys who can do stuff like this impress the hell out of me. I know the basics of electrickery & electronics & have managed to learn basic house wiring & have rewired many bikes & cars over my life, BUT I still sort of treat electricity like water in pipes  :)  ;) 
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young gun

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Re: Some electrical advice needed.
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2015, 01:47:24 PM »
lol, my knowledge with electronics is pretty basic, when I bought the Bridge Rectifier I had to look up how it actually needed to be wired up :D

Just glad it worked, im going for my drivers license and if the bike isn't roadworthy they fail you, so I needed this working :D