Changing Bulbs to LEDs

[Grommit]

Some time ago there was a post about LED bulbs as replacement for the stock filament bulbs. Here is my contribution to the discussion. My bike is a 2009 Military.

I have replaced the BA9s "Pilot" bulbs with brighter white LED bulbs. The white is actually closer to the blue one sees in the specialty headlamps. I'm going to order up a set of LED turn signal lamps. An LED has an "instant on, instant off" characterstic that is perceived by the human eye faster than an incandescent bulb which "fades in, fades out". That alone is a good reason for using them on a motorcycle!

I have the 4 amber turn signal, white tail/brake, and the BA9s lamps for the speedometer (green turn, blue hi beam, green neutral, white speedometer face lamp) and another white for the ammeter. I'm waiting for an opportunity to dig into the headlamp shell to get at those bulbs. With sunglasses/dark goggles it is almost impossible to see the turn signal indicator lamp. It's easier to watch for the flickering of the ammeter. Hopefully the new LED will be brighter than the stock bulb.

The total cost to replace all the bulbs comes to $42.71 plus shipping of around $4. It seems like a lot but the reliability factor makes it worthwhile to me. Add to the cost of the bulbs a flasher designed for the LED bulbs, $12.95 (solid state).

I bought the LED bulbs from superbrightleds.com. I've used their 24V LED bulbs for a couple of years and they are great.

[Rick Sperko]

I replaced all of my bulbs with LEDs except for the headlight and am really happy with them. Bought them from the same place. Oh, I added the LED tombstone tail light too, and hooked in one of the blink several times then go solid brake light devices.

I had someone turn left in front of me last year and ended up with a broken arm, so I am determined to be as visible as possible, while not relying on the other guy.

-Rick

[Grommit]

This is from Superbrightleds - others may have similar prices. The later bikes have 12 bulbs total.

Bulb, 1157, white (tail and brake), 1157-W24, $12.99
Bulb, 67, amber (L/F turn signal), 67-A15, $4.95
Bulb, 67, amber (L/R turn signal), 67-A15, $4.95
Bulb, 67, amber (R/F turn signal), 67-A15, $4.95
Bulb, 67, amber (R/R turn signal), 67-A15, $4.95
Bulb, BA9s, super blue (high beam indicator), A9s-B4, $2.98
Bulb, BA9s, super green (neutral indicator), BA9S-G4, $2.98
Bulb, BA9s, super green (turn signal indicator), BA9S-G4,  $2.98
Bulb, BA9s, super white (right pilot lamp), BA9S-W4, $2.98
Bulb, BA9s, super white (left pilot lamp), BA9S-W4, $2.98
Bulb, BA9s, super white (ammeter), BA9S-W4, $2.98
Bulb, BA7s, white (speedometer), BA7S-W, $1.49
LED (or incandescent) Bulb Flasher Unit, CF12ANL-01, $12.95
TOTAL, $65.11
(shipping was $5)
With this setup you may never have change out a bulb as long as you own the bike! They claim 50,000 hours on the LEDs.

[geoffbaker]

grommit, if you dig back on the forum on LEDs you should come across my contribution as well. I built a 73-LED unit that fit in the taillamp of the existing bullet and was twice as bright as a standard filament lamp... also all flashers, instrument lamps etc converted to LED.

[Grommit]

grommit, if you dig back on the forum on LEDs you should come across my contribution as well. I built a 73-LED unit that fit in the taillamp of the existing bullet and was twice as bright as a standard filament lamp... also all flashers, instrument lamps etc converted to LED.

I wanted to list just the simple items that were "plug 'n play", with virtually no mechanical or electrical skills involved. How many Enfield owners does it take to change a lightbulb? Only one, I hope.

[BigDon]

Grommit

Is the LED (1157-w24 ) as bright as the current incandescent?

Same question on the turn indicators.

Thanks
Big Don

[Rick Sperko]

Grommit

Is the LED (1157-w24 ) as bright as the current incandescent?

Same question on the turn indicators.

Thanks
Big Don

You can see some pictures showing the differences here: http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,2729.15.html

Those are 1156 to 1156 comparisons, but should give a feel for the brightness of an 1157.

-Rick

[geoffbaker]

Grommit

Is the LED (1157-w24 ) as bright as the current incandescent?

Same question on the turn indicators.

Thanks
Big Don

Don, I bought some 5W luxeons - the brightest on the market - and while they were brighter than the regular incandescent, they also are incredibly delicate - both mine blew thanks to loose tongues & wires in the housing...

I built a very simple LED twice as bright as the standard incandescent for about $20. It required soldering three wires, if I remember right... very easy.

Look it up on the threads if you're interested.

[BigDon]

Thanks Geoff.

[geoffbaker]

You're welcome, Don.

I forgot to add, I also built my own 37-LED turn indicators, also brighter than stock, for $15 each. I also added a "lightbar" on the back which is both brake and turn signal, and everyone comments on how visible the bike is. And all use about 1/30 the draw of standard incandescents.

Think of it this way... you can keep adding LEDs till you look like a Christmas tree... and still save on power consumption... ultimately, LEDs are much better, unless you are confined to using stock LEDs in the original housing. These tend to be less powerful.

I think I posted some comparison pictures, too...

[Grommit]

I had not yet ridden my Military at night, so the discovery I made was inside the garage, lights off. I wanted to see how bright the LED lamps were in the dark.

Big surprise! For some reason when the left lamps are blinking, the right lamps also blink, but very, very dimly. Same with the right signals, left LEDs blink dimly. There is apparently a crossover somewhere in the turn signal circuit.

After I stopped to think about it, I don't mind if the opposite turn lamp blinks very dimly as the additional blinking might help bring attention to the fact that the rider is going to turn, There is no comparison in the intensity between the selected lamp and the dim one. Strange, but something I can easily live with!

[Grommit]

The LED bulbs are available in various configurations. A bulb may have anywhere from 4 to 24 or more LED bulbs clustered in the base. You can determine which LED type will fit in your housing, and that way select the level of brightness based on the number of LEDs. My tail/brake LED is an 1157 base with 24 LEDs. I would have perferred to use a red bulb but need white for the license plate illumination.
My amber turn bulbs have 24 LEDs, and the BA9s pilot and other lamps are 4 LED bulbs.
I've also reactivated the right handlebar lamp switch. Military vehicles have to be able to switch off visible lamps. An added plus is not having the headlamp and tail lamp on when using the electric starter, so the only lamp on is the neutral lamp.

[geoffbaker]

I had not yet ridden my Military at night, so the discovery I made was inside the garage, lights off. I wanted to see how bright the LED lamps were in the dark.

Big surprise! For some reason when the left lamps are blinking, the right lamps also blink, but very, very dimly. Same with the right signals, left LEDs blink dimly. There is apparently a crossover somewhere in the turn signal circuit.

After I stopped to think about it, I don't mind if the opposite turn lamp blinks very dimly as the additional blinking might help bring attention to the fact that the rider is going to turn, There is no comparison in the intensity between the selected lamp and the dim one. Strange, but something I can easily live with!

Grommit, I would suggest you  not live with it.
When one light blinks dimly and the other is bright, it is defnitely a sign of voltage crossover... which means you could very soon have a major voltage crossover, known as a short.

You are leaking voltage through either a faulty connection or a wire that has been damaged, and that could lead to what I found when I opened up my wiring harness after months of erratic electrical issues... three feet of melted wire.

You really can't "live with" that...

Chances are good it will get worse, and could affect other systems.

[The Garbone]

Bad flasher possibly or a slight short.... hmmm..

[mtrueblood]

I posted a question about changing pilot light bulbs to LEDs in another forum before discovering this forum.  I think this gives me most of what I need.  

Am I correct in thinking that these LEDs fit into the same base as the bulbs?  I'm not familiar with LEDs, but what I read on the Internet made me think that I was just getting something with two wire leads coming off of it, and that I'd have to do some Ohm's Law calculation and solder a resistor to one of the leads.

[geoffbaker]

No you can get LEDs to fit every bulb type - ba7 ba9 1156 and 1157.

They are great for instrument lights. Most commercial turn and stop LED bulbs tho are not as bright as stock.

[rick505]

This is from Superbrightleds - others may have similar prices. The later bikes have 12 bulbs total.

Bulb, 1157, white (tail and brake), 1157-W24, $12.99
Bulb, 67, amber (L/F turn signal), 67-A15, $4.95
Bulb, 67, amber (L/R turn signal), 67-A15, $4.95
Bulb, 67, amber (R/F turn signal), 67-A15, $4.95
Bulb, 67, amber (R/R turn signal), 67-A15, $4.95
Bulb, BA9s, super blue (high beam indicator), A9s-B4, $2.98
Bulb, BA9s, super green (neutral indicator), BA9S-G4, $2.98
Bulb, BA9s, super green (turn signal indicator), BA9S-G4,  $2.98
Bulb, BA9s, super white (right pilot lamp), BA9S-W4, $2.98
Bulb, BA9s, super white (left pilot lamp), BA9S-W4, $2.98
Bulb, BA9s, super white (ammeter), BA9S-W4, $2.98
Bulb, BA7s, white (speedometer), BA7S-W, $1.49
LED (or incandescent) Bulb Flasher Unit, CF12ANL-01, $12.95
TOTAL, $65.11
(shipping was $5)

First, thanks for your message above.  I received my order yesterday using your list to order. 

I do have a question for everyone.  I have NOT replaced the bulbs in the speedo and ammeter yet, however I have changed my turn signals and tested before and after changing out the flasher.  As expected before the flasher swap the turn signal would light up and not blink.  Unfortunately all four light up at once.  After the flasher exchange all four flash simultaneously.  I did swap the stock turn signals some time ago for bullet lights from CMW (they use the stock bulbs).

Do you think the reason they all light at the same time is I'm using the metal of the light mount as my ground??  I'll have to look at the lights again but recall they do not, in stock form, provide a ground wire from the light but rely on the metal of the mount. I may also just try replacing the bulbs in the speedo and ammeter in case these are providing some "phantom" ground or something.  If that doesn't do it I'll run some jumpers from the turn signals to ground to see if that improves things.

Thanks in advance,

Rick

[geoffbaker]

I'm suspecting the flasher is miswired and one of the power lines has swapped with the ground; or you have the wrong flasher. The one listed by grommit would be the correct one for my model (2000 KS) but if yours is a later model it may well need a different flasher.

To find out go to the superbrightled page at http://www.superbrightleds.com/flashers.htm
and determine which flasher most closely fits your existing flasher..

[The Garbone]

My guess would be a slight short inside the switch or switch wire harness... The LEDs require much less current to light so you probably never noticed it on the stock bulbs.   I would pull the leds and from the connectors behind the headlamp and under the seat going to the rear of the bike (using a decent meter) look for a short from your left to right signals in the harness or switch.   

I almost put money its the switch or the harness under the rear fender that is the problem.

[rick505]

Well, in my case once I swapped the lights in the speedo everything was back to normal.  I'd need to review the wiring diagram but suspect a filament in one of the existing bulbs was causing all the turn signals to light.  Actually they were acting like flashers on a car.  Too bad there isn't a switch to simply turn them in to that.  The only bulb I've still got to swap is the one in the ammeter. I tried but my fingers just are too big to pull it out easily.  Will play around later.  I also want to get a different tail/brake light since the LED one I received is WAY too dim with an aftermarket light.  I have a '32 Ford replica assembly and the 1157 LED replacement doesn't even show in daylight.  So, I'm back to a Happy Camper.

Thanks all.

Rick

[The Garbone]

 

Just some more Bullet magic I guess..   odd....

 

I have to remember to keep this mod on my if I had the extra cash shopping list....

My KZ has a separate Emergency flasher switch and flasher under the seat.. I should look at the diagram but it probably would not be that hard to wire into an RE... Thinking about it

Solution #1
Maybe put run a hot to the 2nd flasher then up to a em. flasher switch and then you tap into your left and right turn signals using Diodes to isolate.   Would probably work,  adds a bit to the tangle in the harness.   I could do it using the discarded ES wiring from my left toolbox but  most folks would need to run a new wire.

Solution #2 
Wire an intentional short between the left and right  signals going through a relay so its normally open.  Put a switch on the relay so when you want all 4 to flash you hit the switch and the left or right signal and bang, all 4 flash..  Or if you have a relay with 4 normally open leads you could then have the one switch operating the relay turn on a the signal and  short left and right and bang, 4 way flasher.. 

[geoffbaker]

I think all you need to do to create hazards is install a switch and add two N4001 diodes, going from the switch to both turn signal power wires on the handlebar switch.

That is similar to what I have done successfully on my bike, but I also have a digital control center the motogadget m-unit, which may make my wiring a little different for this mod.

The diodes act to shut off power between the two separate circuits until you turn the switch, then there should be enough power to light all signals.

However, this would I bet ONLY work with a low current LED application.

My hazards work great!

The diodes cost 40cents at my local electronic store.

[Ragmas]

The reason all you lights are blinking is probably because the old flasher unit is a thermal flasher that requires the load of an incandescent lamp.  I had this problem with my last bike when I swapped to LEDs.  You can get a flasher designed to work with LEDs or you can put load resisters in line. the load resisters seems silly as you are switching to leds to take the load off.  Good luck.

 

[Geirskogul]

I have a solution and update to this thread.  I recently finished switching all of my lamps to LED, including using an electronic flasher that's supposed to work with LEDs. 

When I first hooked up the turn signals (one 1156 in each rear housing, one 1x amber LED in the pilot lamp - I had accidentally driven over my front turn signals during a recent repair) with the stock flasher, as usual the light only came on, but didn't turn off.  This was expected.  What wasn't expected was that the opposite pilot LED turn signal would, VERY DIMLY, light with the other one on.  The rear turn signals, 12 LED monstrosities, didn't.  Strange.

When I hooked up the electronic flasher (EP37 "Triton" electronic flasher from Autozone, IIRC), the lights still only turned on without flashing.  Again, the opposite front signals would very dimly light.  So dim you couldn't tell during the day, and it would probably not matter at night either, but still odd.

What would my solution be?  How could I get the electronic flasher to flash, without using those 6ohm 50W resistors, which defeat the purpose of LEDs in the first place?  It was apparent that my tiny LED setup wasn't even enough current to trigger the electronic, LED-designed flasher, which is understandable.  They're designed for big LED replacement setups, on the order of 500MA minimum (which is, what, about half of a standard 15w turn signal bulb?), so a small motorcycle setup could cause problems. 

What I needed was enough draw to trigger the flasher, but not so much draw (like those 6ohm resistors you see) that it defeats the purpose.  Now remember, with those load resistors you're essentially shorting from 12v to ground on each turn signal side's circuit.  The lower the ohm rating of the resistor, the more current draw, as the more complete short you're making.  The higher the resistance, the lower the amp draw, as the more incomplete circuit that's created.  The reason those "load equalizer" flashers are rated for 50W and have heatsinks is because 6 ohms is a very small resistance, and they need it.

I couldn't throw a 3K resistor on there, as pretty much nothing would happen (I tried).  I also couldn't throw any standard 25 ohm resistor on there, as any of the ones I had would fry (I tried - old carbon resistors short when they fry, lost a fuse that way), and the draw would be too big anyway (about 480mA, or 5 watts on the resistors - unacceptable).  My solution for low-but-enough-draw-for-the-flasher?  Two 150 ohm resistors per side, wired in parallel.  This gives me 75 ohms per side, but two resistors to spread the little bit of heat that's created for a more durable circuit.  Also still gives me a helluva lot less draw than standard bulbs, about 150mA or 1.9W (less than one watt for each one-watt resistor), but it's still enough to trigger the flasher.

Oh, and once you put the resistors on, you don't get feedback through to opposite turn signal, as there is enough draw on the triggered side to soak up any extra fed current.  A 12V LED only requires 120mA or so to brightly light, for single standard LED bulbs, but much, much less to dim a bit; sparking current is on the order of 12mA, much less than any stray current that might be floating around.  Unless it's noticeable, I wouldn't worry about it or think that somethings wrong in the system.  I have LED Christmas lights on dimmers that stay light when I have the dimmers turned all the way down to zero.  With the dodgy Indian electronics, or the frankly weird way they have of wiring things up (blame the original Lucas heritage for that), it's to be expected.

[1 Thump]

This is from Superbrightleds - others may have similar prices. The later bikes have 12 bulbs total.

Bulb, 1157, white (tail and brake), 1157-W24, $12.99
Bulb, 67, amber (L/F turn signal), 67-A15, $4.95
Bulb, 67, amber (L/R turn signal), 67-A15, $4.95
Bulb, 67, amber (R/F turn signal), 67-A15, $4.95
Bulb, 67, amber (R/R turn signal), 67-A15, $4.95
Bulb, BA9s, super blue (high beam indicator), A9s-B4, $2.98
Bulb, BA9s, super green (neutral indicator), BA9S-G4, $2.98
Bulb, BA9s, super green (turn signal indicator), BA9S-G4,  $2.98
Bulb, BA9s, super white (right pilot lamp), BA9S-W4, $2.98
Bulb, BA9s, super white (left pilot lamp), BA9S-W4, $2.98
Bulb, BA9s, super white (ammeter), BA9S-W4, $2.98
Bulb, BA7s, white (speedometer), BA7S-W, $1.49
LED (or incandescent) Bulb Flasher Unit, CF12ANL-01, $12.95
TOTAL, $65.11
(shipping was $5)
With this setup you may never have change out a bulb as long as you own the bike! They claim 50,000 hours on the LEDs.

Will this work with a 2008 Iron Barrel model.

[GSS]

Will this work with a 2008 Iron Barrel model.

I posted a copy of my invoice with bulb info for a 2010 C5 in the UCE section. Most of these bulbs should work for you. Just pick the bulb size and color to match what you have in your 2008 Iron Barrel. Hope this helps.

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,10412.0.html

[GreenMachine]

wouldn't it be great if the new machines say in 2013 come out with led lighting and 7 inch/ halogen lamp head light..that would be a great selling point and they could purchase in bulk and might be cost effective for them and the customer..just saying as it seems to be the way many of the manufactures are headed..

[1 Thump]

Did the mod yesterday. Those tiny bulb holders can be tough. I had to cut and chop spring inside the neutral light holder to accept the led. The speedo light and high/low beam dont light up for some reason. I ll get back to that.

I am having some of the same issues as noted above. The turn indicators flash, but the opposite indicator flashes dimly as well. I ll call superbrightleds peolple tomorrow.

[Arizoni]

I don't know about replacing the standard bulbs with LED's but I do know that if the rear signals ground wire is not connected to a good ground the opposite turn signal will light.

The metal frame at the rear of some bikes isn't  well grounded to the main frame so if you grounded the LED's or the sockets to the frame that could be the problem.

[GreenRE]

I finally got around to this and called the guys at superbrightleds. They informed me that since the turn indicator (in the speedo) is a single bulb that flashes irrespective of the directional flasher, the opposite side is going to flash. They also told me that this is a common issue and is resolved by using one of these: http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/kuryakyn-diode-kit-for-metric-bikes-each/part/KY-4709
I am going to give this a try. Has someone else had this issue. 

[Bulletman]

I finally got around to this and called the guys at superbrightleds. They informed me that since the turn indicator (in the speedo) is a single bulb that flashes irrespective of the directional flasher, the opposite side is going to flash. They also told me that this is a common issue and is resolved by using one of these: http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/kuryakyn-diode-kit-for-metric-bikes-each/part/KY-4709
I am going to give this a try. Has someone else had this issue.

Hi, i was wondering if you resolved the issue with your led lights, ( specifically for the left and right indicators) and if the kit superbrightleds recommended was functional.

[barenekd]

I changed all the bulbs on my bike except the turn signal bulbs and headlight. All of Them worked right right out of the box. And now Ican even see them!
Bare

[mattsz]

...My tail/brake LED is an 1157 base with 24 LEDs. I would have perferred to use a red bulb but need white for the license plate illumination.

Hey Grommit-

Quiet thread, but I was browsing "Superbrightleds.com" and found this:

http://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/tail-brake-turn/1157-led-bulb-dual-intensity-25-led-motorcycle-bulb/170/767/

It's an 1157 "bulb" that has 19 reds facing straight toward the lens, and 6 whites facing out radially to illuminate a license plate below the lens.

Anyone try this in the Enfield?

[Jack Leis]

Yep , I installed the same LED tail light on my G5 and it really works. Not overpowering but much more visible than the stock lamp. The thing should last forever.

[barenekd]

+1

[b.sheets]

might be a dumb question but what can you do to help your bulb stay in the pilot light housing? after changing my bulb it won't stay secure. any tip would be greatly appreciated because this is one of the most frustrating things I've dealt with TODAY.

[sanj4u2]

Hi,

Thanks for putting this list together...great stuff.
I am a newbie and wanted to make sure that I have as much as possible details before planning to buy the LED lamps.

I have one question regarding the "CF12ANL-01 LED Bulb Electronic Flasher".
Do we still need one of the following item to ensure that all4 flasher does not blink at the same time.

http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/kuryakyn-diode-kit-for-metric-bikes-each/part/KY-4709


Also, would be able to help me regrading selecting the HID lamp for classic model please?

Thanks,
Sanjay

[barenekd]

You can put an LED (be sure it's the "W4" version) in the indicator in the speedo. Then you can at least see if the turn signals are on. Just leave the stock bulbs in the turn signals themselves, then you don't have to worry about fiddling with all these other doodads. The stock bulbs are quite bright enough.
Bare

[Arizoni]

I agree with you barenekd.
The turn signals aren't used for long periods of time so they don't reduce the voltage available for charging the battery.
Messing with that diode addition to the flasher circuit that is needed to get the LED's in the turn signals to work looks like a pain in the butt to me.

[sanj4u2]

Thank you barenekd and Arizoni Looks like leaving turn signals on stock bulbs is a better option...


could you / other RE guru help me on the following query as well:

Also, would be able to help me regrading selecting the HID lamp for classic model please?

Thanks,
Sanjay