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Author Topic: classic motor vs AVL  (Read 5048 times)

exiledcarper

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classic motor vs AVL
« on: September 25, 2007, 11:13:03 PM »
I'm torn between  buying a Classic or Electra Classic and wonder how the motors compare.  I'm particularly interested whether the AVL motor has very similar characteristics to the Classic iron motor?  Mainly, does it have the same general feel, sound and most importantly, TORQUE when compared to the original.  I kind of like the  idea of inherently better reliability, fuel consumption etc, but don't really want something that feels/sounds/runs like a Jap bike.  I guess I want the best of both worlds, but the bottom line is I still want the THUMP!  After all, who wants a "buzzy" 500 single?  So, anyone experienced both machines and how do the motors compare?

Thumper

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Re: classic motor vs AVL
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2007, 11:50:08 PM »
Mainly, does it have the same general feel, sound and most importantly, TORQUE when compared to the original.  I kind of like the  idea of inherently better reliability, fuel consumption etc, but don't really want something that feels/sounds/runs like a Jap bike. 

They both are so similar in overall design that feel, sound and torque would be a wash. 6 one way, half a dozen the other.

In stock form, my Electra X was disguised as a Honda 250. Small, nimble smooth and quiet. After adding a performance kit I now have a REAL thumper! My guess is that the stock classic models would be about the same. Both are equipped with emissions equipment - which is the main culprit.

Here are two other threads that discuss the differences. There are some interesting points to consider:

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,203.15.html

http://www.enfieldmotorcycles.com/forum/index.php/topic,47.msg151.html#msg151

hth,
matt


luoma

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Re: classic motor vs AVL
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2007, 12:54:58 AM »
I have not owned an old-style RE, but I have followed  the Enfield evolution for a few years before deciding what to buy. Before the AVL came about, I had decided on an iron head Delux. I also decided on a whole lot of upgrades and improvements I wanted to do right away, judging from what other Re owners were doing to their bikes. Over the years, RE owners were adding hi-floe oil punps, stronger bottom end, electronic ignition, higher comp piston, improved valve train, redesigned head, allow cylindar for better cooling. When I found out that the AVL engine was basically an old RE motor with all the standard upgrades already done, I was sold. I know there are some riders who poo poo the AVL as not being a traditional RE motor, but I think most RE enthusiasts are probably flattered that the company followed their lead and built the kind of bike they had been building in their garages for years. I still like the looks of the original, but it is still a long-stroke single with gobs of torque (the AVL actually has quite a bit more torque) and a geat  sound. The CMW performance kit is great and costs very little. The addition of a 19-tooth front sprocket and you can ride pretty much any road you want to.

exiledcarper

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Re: classic motor vs AVL
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2007, 03:08:55 AM »
A couple of very informative replies, thanks guys. I must say that I also feel that I would want to do some significant mods if I buy an original, but it does sound like the AVL motor pretty much has all that covered.  It's a shame R.E. had to mess about with the styling though, I just think the Classic looks so much better than the Electra.  Any chance of the guys atCMW putting out a bike with the original roling chassis and AVL motor?  I think that bike would be a real seller.  Fat chance I suppose, so it's still down to the agonizing choice between style and practicality.  I know the Electra Classic with solo seat doesn't look too bad, but that ugly ass side panel arrangement looks SO out of place.  I have to say that while I like the look of the twin leading shoe front stopper on the Classic, I could live with the front disc for safety's sake!   So how about it CMW?  What price a Classic rolling chassis, with an AVL motor to install in it? ;D

Bullet500Dude

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Re: classic motor vs AVL
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2007, 04:05:41 AM »
Hi Exiled !   My friend Paul from Idaho bought a new Electra, and its a very strong rinning bike..  In stock tune they run like a moderatly modified oldie, and I believe with Hitchcock's performance kit they would run an oldie in to the ground.  You may also want to check out the UK distributor.  www.royal-enfield.com.  Go to the Bullet Electra's, and look at the Classic Solo.  Squint your eyes, and it looks like an oldie.  lol
Take CARE, be BAD ;-) and ride SAFE ....... D.B.

prof_stack

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Re: classic motor vs AVL
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2007, 05:22:06 AM »
...  It's a shame R.E. had to mess about with the styling though, I just think the Classic looks so much better than the Electra.  Any chance of the guys atCMW putting out a bike with the original roling chassis and AVL motor?  I think that bike would be a real seller.  Fat chance I suppose ...

RE_1, Kevin Mahoney, on his recent trip to India said that there is a decent chance that there might be a Electra Classic in the US for '08.  Or maybe I'm just hoping ...  But would that have the drum brake in front?

There's something about the Electra-X styling that has grown on me.  However, the local RE dealer sold 2 in one year.  He said he had trouble moving them compared to the old-style models.

Good luck.

HRAB

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Re: classic motor vs AVL
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2007, 04:03:33 PM »
People own these great machines for a variety of reasons. I seems to divide into two major camps. The first is the purist who wants to creat a motorcyle in his  image of a 1950's machine. And many of these owners ride a lot of miles on their Classic, Deluxe, or Military Bullet.

Another group likes something unique in a ride, but is looking for something to commute to work or school. The Electra (X) is a little less demanding with respect to maintenance having the improvements already mentioned. Still stylish, but with obvious compormises.

A rolling Classic chassis with an AVL motor isn't available. One would have to buy a complete Classic bike and a complete AVL motor to accomplish the match. It hasn't been done here, but it would probably not require much bodging to accomplish the match up.
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gapl53

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Re: classic motor vs AVL
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2007, 04:26:03 PM »
I'm torn between buying a Classic or Electra Classic and wonder how the motors compare.  I'm particularly interested whether the AVL motor has very similar characteristics to the Classic iron motor?  Mainly, does it have the same general feel, sound and most importantly, TORQUE when compared to the original.  I kind of like the idea of inherently better reliability, fuel consumption etc, but don't really want something that feels/sounds/runs like a Jap bike.  I guess I want the best of both worlds, but the bottom line is I still want the THUMP!  After all, who wants a "buzzy" 500 single?  So, anyone experienced both machines and how do the motors compare?
Welcome,
I have owned both a 2007 Classic and a 2006 Electra-X. Personally I perfer the Electra-x for performance, reliability, and maintenance ease. I did perfer the vintage looks of the Classic over the retro looks of the Electra-X. The main reason I switch from the Classic to the Electra-X was the ability of the Electra-x to run at a higher speed. On a regular bases I run a continuous true 70mph for up to 50 - 60 miles at a time without problem. The Classic I had wouldn't do that and I was always in the way of traffic. As far as how they sound they are the same. If you want that true thumper sound you will need to modify the stock exhaust or replace it. The Electra-X does stop faster with the disc brake up front and it handles a lot better in the corners with the gas shocks out back. The Classic has many more accessories and performance parts available if you like to dress it up. Both bikes accelerate at a similar pace. The Electra-X has more torque and slightly more horsepower stock and it's geared slightly higher, this accounts for the higher top speed. Gear ratio's can be changed on the Classic but because it has less torque the acceleration will be affected. They will both have there own quirks when new, but once I fixed the Electra's they haven't returned, it's very reliable and has given me no trouble in the 2500miles I have put on it since June, 2007. I couldn't say the same about the Classic I had, it was always one thing or another that had to be tended to. My fuel mileage is slightly better with the Electra-X.
But in the end I can say they are both great bike in their own way, similar but different.
I hope this helps, I know it's a tough decision as to which one.

LJRead

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Re: classic motor vs AVL
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2007, 05:53:46 PM »
I had a letter from Lalli Singh, probably the best regarded Indian Enfield dealer and tour operator.  He said to get an AVL, saying that they are far more reliable than the standard type, going for upwards of 45,000 km and more with just normal maintenance.  He said the standard sometimes required major work, including valves, at 15,000 or so.  I took that as a pretty good reflection on the two and later ordered one with the AVL, tied up for a few more days with a shipping company in Singapore.

My feeling is that if this well known Indian dealer stands behind AVL, with experience under the rough Indian conditions, that says enough.

LJRead

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Re: classic motor vs AVL
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2007, 06:25:11 PM »
Having just made the points in the post above, just a further note: classics looks are important for some, less so for me, since I will have to do all the maintenance myself.  The Machismo was tempting because of its chrome plated retro look, with AVL, but where I live in the humid tropics, I felt that all that extra  chrome would be difficult to maintain without pitting, so ordered a mostly painted model, ending up with a 2003 Thunderbird.

I am gaining an eye for the classic look, but will continue to put function as my priority, with the feeling that the T-bird will be good enough.

mbevo1

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Re: classic motor vs AVL
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2007, 02:02:01 PM »
I love my Classic, but the Electra has some great points, too... I know CMW shows the Bullet Electra Classic on their site - I think they can be ordered through any dealer.  There was another gent in Michigan that had Uncommon Motorcycles in PA build him a red Deluxe Electra.  He sent some pictures of it... looked like an oldy except for the disk brake and silver motor. 

I like my black jug - maybe someone could black-anodize or powder coat the alloy barrel on the Electra...

Mike and Stumpy (who wouldn't mind another Bullet in the stable) in Michigan
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luoma

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Re: classic motor vs AVL
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2007, 03:37:30 PM »
I have suggested the idea of black powdercoat on the Electra's alloy barrel. I think Kevin at CMW said they did that on their shop bike. When I have to pull my top end down for a ring job, I'll probably do it.

HRAB

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Re: classic motor vs AVL
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2007, 04:08:48 PM »
Here is the shop bike with a black cylinder.

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exiledcarper

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Re: classic motor vs AVL
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2007, 01:51:50 AM »
Well it seems my prayers may be answered after all.  Not only does Kevin on the News board hint at an AVL engined Classic for 2008, but I also spotted the Bullet 500 Machismo (awful name!) on the RE India site.  Now I may be missing something, but that looks an awful lot like an AVL engine in a Classic frame to me, albeit with  Electra style forks and front disc.  I wouldn't mind one of those, how long till we get tham in the U.S?

cyrusb

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Re: classic motor vs AVL
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2007, 10:49:21 PM »
Wow, that motor is all head, It didn't seem obvious until I  saw your pic with the cyl painted black. I assume that the bore and stroke are the same for both motors. If thats so ,I wonder what magic they used to fit the parts.